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Originally Posted by SadnDepressed
Originally Posted by committedandlovi
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We had to marry for legal reasons. Well we didn't have to.


Hmmm...you mentioned earlier in the thread that he purchased a ticket to go on a 2 month vacation back to "his country".

So...did you marry to give him a green card?

committed

Hi, there... unfortunately I cannot comment on the nature of the legal reasons I had to offer to marry him. I hope you guys understand.

Hmm... this raises the following question. Do they use full names during the radio show? Is the info I send confidential? Does anyone know how I could find out?

Oh, and ML -- I cannot afford to visit a MD for the anti depressants. I have an appt this Sat with the people from the local government funded mental health place for an eval. Hopefully this will be the solution to the pill thing.

SD


They only use first names during the radio shows.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Thanks. Writing to them now.

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They are more than happy to use an assumed name or just refer to you as "Caller," as well.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by SadnDepressed
Originally Posted by committedandlovi
Quote
We had to marry for legal reasons. Well we didn't have to.


Hmmm...you mentioned earlier in the thread that he purchased a ticket to go on a 2 month vacation back to "his country".

So...did you marry to give him a green card?

committed

Hi, there... unfortunately I cannot comment on the nature of the legal reasons I had to offer to marry him. I hope you guys understand.

Hmm... this raises the following question. Do they use full names during the radio show? Is the info I send confidential? Does anyone know how I could find out?

Oh, and ML -- I cannot afford to visit a MD for the anti depressants. I have an appt this Sat with the people from the local government funded mental health place for an eval. Hopefully this will be the solution to the pill thing.

SD

Notice the highlighted area?

And...no I do NOT understand.


You offered to marry him for "legal" reasons...which means to me it was for the purpose of some kind of fraud.

He took you up on that offer which leads me to believe that he married you cause you offered some kind of legal wrangling.

He just needed to get married for some kind of legal reason...not because he wanted to because he loved you.

Now you want him to love you and be some kind of husband...when it was really just some kind of legal wrangling arrangement.

You cannot comment on it because it is suspect at best and illegal at worst.

Just my opinion.

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Yes, you really need to speak with the Harleys. And you need to tell them the real reason for your marriage.

Dr. Harley has actually worked with marriages that began without love, so I have read. So, not saying it is impossible.

But this really is a massive hurdle above & beyond a 'typical' problem marriage, because there is no foundation of love to go "back to". Part of MB involves restoring and rebuilding romantic love - if the commitment did not exist to start with, it will be that much harder.

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Just sent the email.

We've been good friends for years. I offered because my friend needed help. Apart from that we got involved in a serious committed relationship... would we have gotten married so soon had the legal reason not existed? I honestly doubt it, but had we not gotten involved and remained as just friends, I would have helped him just the same. Basically what I'm saying is the relationship didn't need to exist in order for me to help him. Yes, it complicate things a lot. I was very naive to think we could keep things separate.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that from my point of view there has been love here, and there still is to some degree.

If the marriage doesn't survive this crisis, and it ends without betrayal or abuse, I'd still remain legally married to him until I see things through. Our friendship of so many years deserves at least that.

SD

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This is just too painful. What do you do when any minor conversation ends with tears? I so wish I could reach him. I so wish he would see me. He won't talk to me. His perception of our conversations is so negative, he doesn't even gives us a try. I feel so invisible to him.

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He is fogged out and addicted to the "wonderful feelings" that he gets from his fantasy addiction. I am sooo sorry that you are hurting right now. He is chasing his fix. He has to demonize you to justify doing what he is doing. He is NOT in his right mind. He looks fine, but he is NOT!! He is an addict chasing his addiction - nothing else matters! I just wanted to tell you that I saw your post, am sending positive feelings your way, and to tell you to remain true to yourself!! YOU draw your boundaries and stay true to yourself. You do not deserve to be treated in this way.


BS Me 47,WH 49
DS's x3 17, 10, 7
Multiple D-Days
No disclosure by WH. No EP's, no transparency, no guilt or remorse either.
Plan C DOES NOT WORK!
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Originally Posted by SadnDepressed
This is just too painful. What do you do when any minor conversation ends with tears? I so wish I could reach him. I so wish he would see me. He won't talk to me. His perception of our conversations is so negative, he doesn't even gives us a try. I feel so invisible to him.


A bad marriage is the loneliest place on the planet. But you can change this. You have to stop with the tear stuff and start plan A.


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how? That's what I'm asking. Where do you find the. Strength to put up with their DJ and criticism. Honest question here....

If there was like a tylenol for emotional pain, id take that around 5pm every night....

SD

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Originally Posted by SadnDepressed
how? That's what I'm asking. Where do you find the. Strength to put up with their DJ and criticism. Honest question here....
SD


How? By wanting a happy marriage and being prepared to do whatever it takes to get that. Plan A is tough, it is about meeting your spouse's emotional needs whilst avoiding ALL lovebusters 100%. So if tears are a lovebuster for him (they often are), you cry in secret. Use ice on your eyes afterwards so that he cannot tell you were crying.

If he is critical, you gently tell him 'ouch that hurt' and then you immediately change the subject to something cheerful. For instance, you might ask him what he wants for lunch. Same with any DJ.

Nobody is suggesting you do this for the rest of your life. You do it for long enough to entice him into/back into the marriage. If it does not work, you can leave knowing you did your best.



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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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OMG... Thanks for the links BH. Listened to them yesterday and have been trying my very best to avoid LB. This is hard. He takes everything i say and spins it negatively. Sigh...

One day at a time, I guess...

SD

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Here's a good clip of Dr. Harley explaining how a couple probably has grown apart and will need to try POJA.

Radio clip on growing apart


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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So before it was about my "depression", then about my AO, now it's about my annoying habits... And he's taking to talking to me like I have trouble understanding simple sentences. I want to scream everytime he does it. UGH!!

No word from the Harleys yet about the radio show. I truly cannot afford the private phone sessions at this point. Has anyone been in this position? I agree the best thing would be to have him talk on the phone with someone there, but I don't know when I'll be able to afford that. I haven't brought up reading the material anymore because it just sparks a bad attitude in him. I have quit trying to sell it to him, since anything and everything that comes out of my mouth is bound to be damned in his eyes. I just don't know what else is there that I can do.

I can listen to the radio show and read all the materials until I'm blue in the face. It will most likely benefit me anyways in the long run, but if he's not willing to lift a finger I don't see this relationship working out. I'm running against the clock here... he's leaving Nov 29th.

SD

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Originally Posted by SadnDepressed
I can listen to the radio show and read all the materials until I'm blue in the face. It will most likely benefit me anyways in the long run
Yes indeed it will

Originally Posted by SadnDepressed
but if he's not willing to lift a finger I don't see this relationship working out. I'm running against the clock here... he's leaving Nov 29th.
SD


I have an idea for you. You won't want to hear this but what about putting his feet to the fire? Decide that if you two split up, you will withdraw your sponsorship of him. It will get him focused like nothing else will. Right now he thinks he can do whatever he wants and gets a free ride. Why would you allow that?


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What little money you have might be best spent on an attorney consultation at this point. If you have sponsored him (and you haven't said, and that's fine, but let's say IF such a thing took place) then you are likely liable for supporting him at a certain % above poverty level if he chooses to stay in the US.

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Originally Posted by living_well
I have an idea for you. You won't want to hear this but what about putting his feet to the fire? Decide that if you two split up, you will withdraw your sponsorship of him. It will get him focused like nothing else will. Right now he thinks he can do whatever he wants and gets a free ride. Why would you allow that?

You know what the problem with that is (for me, at least)? I would be forcing him to remain in this marriage. I don't want to "make him" want to be with me, or love me or what have you. I don't want this relationship to be an obligation. Where's the love there??

If he doesn't see past our hurt and issues, and cannot or will not work on this with me, then why would I want to make him?

Yes, I could and probably would end up undoing the legal arrangement by getting a divorce, but if that happens is because I cannot bear the thought of him gaining a better life at the cost of mine. Not as a ploy to get him to remain in a relationship to me. If I'm not valuable to him, his life... if his priorities are elsewhere, why would I want to remain with a person like that?

What I want is a partnership. What we used to have before. We would help each other out, we were there to listen, to catch each other when we fell, we had fun. We treated each other as equals... I don't have kids and don't plan on having any, so why else would I want to marry anyone? If he's not willing or capable to be that person, what the heck am I doing here?

What keeps me here is that I know we've done it before, and that leads me to think he's capable... at least to a degree. But I have doubts, of course, and the legal arrangement just cast a bigger shadow over the whole thing because everything is so circumstantial.

I would call it quits if I was sure he is not capable of giving, or learning how to give me emotional support. Because it is all too simple to be there for someone when all if fine, but what happens if I get ill? If/when my parents die? Heck, even when the dog dies!? Would I be able to count on him then, or will he remain unable to deal with "so much negativity"?

Anyhow, I've rambled enough... thanks for the suggestion, and it is most definitely not a bad one. It might get him running to save the marriage, but I just wouldn't see that type of marriage as a valuable one for me to remain in.

SD


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Originally Posted by SadnDepressed
You know what the problem with that is (for me, at least)? I would be forcing him to remain in this marriage. I don't want to "make him" want to be with me, or love me or what have you. I don't want this relationship to be an obligation. Where's the love there??
The vows of marriage have already imposed an obligation on you both to do whatever is necessary to care for and protect each other. There is no need to worry, the love will come if you do this right. Any marriage can be successful if both sides follow MB rules.

Originally Posted by SadnDepressed
If I'm not valuable to him, his life... if his priorities are elsewhere, why would I want to remain with a person like that?
That is the right question to be asking yourself. If you become convinced that no matter what you do, he does not care enough to work on the marriage, you need to move on.

Originally Posted by SadnDepressed
I would call it quits if I was sure he is not capable of giving, or learning how to give me emotional support.
A marriage is a partnership. It is not just about giving emotional support, that would be far to draining for anyone to do over an extended period. It is about working on meeting each other's emotional needs actively, every single day.

Originally Posted by SadnDepressed
It might get him running to save the marriage, but I just wouldn't see that type of marriage as a valuable one for me to remain in.
Here is something you might find helpful on your journey. If you are concerned that he might just fake it (he might) watch what happens when you use the Policy of Joint Agreement. You will be amazed at how revealing it is, there is no better way to smoke out a faker.

Here is an invented example; he wants to go to his country for a holiday and you are concerned that he might use that time to meet other women so you POJA the visit. The outcome that makes you both happy is that you go with him. If he is genuine, he then goes out and buys you a ticket, if he is faking it he will find 'an insurmountable objection' later that day/week.

Let us know how you get on.


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How do you implement the POJA when we can't even talk. Mere talking is a LB to him at this stage.

I think my only hope is to get him to talk to the Harleys. There has been no response regarding the radio show question I submitted last week; how long should I wait in your opinion?

SD

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