If we proceed with trying to rebuild, how can I get past the pain and comparisons? Should we try the marriage builders program or follow SAA along with phone coaching? I don't know how long I should wait before we proceed...it will take a certain leap of faith on my part and I don't know if I should wait for the doubts to go away first?

"on). But my gut tells me he's really done with her and is being truthful now. If he isn't, or I'm wrong, then this wouldn't be a person I'd want to remain married to anyway. "

2much, he won't be done with her unless extraordinary precautions are put in place to avoid contact for life. If she is able to get in contact with him, ie: cell phone, text, email, he won't be done with her. BECAUSE EVERY CONTACT WILL TRIGGER HIS FEELINGS FOR HER.

Just saying he is "done with her" is meaningless. It has to be backed up with actions that PREVENT future contact. Pledges from a wayward are as meaningful as the promises of a falling down drunk.

Thanks Melody. We have already implemented some EPs- work number changing tomorrow, request for cell number change, deleted email and Skype accounts. We are writing the NC letter and I'll send it out tomorrow. We also have a plan of action if she contacts him. As far as the other EPs he's working on- those are also to ensure against future affairs right? Because he's thinking along the lines of no traveling alone, no friendships with the opposite sex, etc.

I see that you said this same exact thing a week ago and it never happened. Please don't delay this anymore.

We don't want your WH to have ANY reason to send any "angry NC texts" again. That was actually a hit off the crackpipe and you will need to watch him closely as he will be tempted to find a reason to contact her again.

I know you are feeling very confident that your WH is "done" with OW but this advice still applies as much today as it did last week.

He will be going through w/d and will be very tempted to contact her. You will need to watch him like a hawk. Please trust us.

Have you done any of what was recommended above (key logger on phone and computer)?

You have to STOP being distracted by your WH's fog babble and just accept him for what he is right now, a wayward who is still high from his affair.

I have noticed throughout the thread that this has been a common theme for you-- relaying to us discussions that you have had with your WH, telling us his fogbabbly, convincing us why you think this or that is true.

Waywards are manipulative and deceptive and it doesn't go away overnight. This is a fact. The affair didn't happen without dishonesty and deception and it becomes a bad habit.

He will defog and then you can worry about whether he is finally being an honest person etc...He's not there yet.

Just put all of your attention into following the plan:
~ Send the NC letter
~ implement EPs (eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible and avoiding any temptations/triggers)
~ putting surveillance into place to help ensure NC is happening
~ possible poly (if he is still hiding anything it will keep him foggy so this is money well spent I think for almost any BS)

Please do not contact the OW anymore. She is like crack to your WH. This is how you need to look at it. If you feel you must contact her for some reason, post for feedback before you do so, OK?

Stop talking about her, psychoanalyzing, blaming her, etc. These things are just going to trigger your WH. OK?

2m, please pay close attention to Susie's posts. You really are paying too much attention to fogbabble. It is like believing the rantings of a falling down drunk. If the falling down drunk swears off booze and says he will "never drink again" do you believe him?

And yes, EPs mean he doesn't travel without you again and he does not have OS friendships.

toomuch,

It is common for wayward husbands to "throw their wife a bone" to get her to back off. For example, he can "swear he is done," and get you to stop insisting that he follow the steps to prevent further contact.

Don't let him treat you like this, or you will be in for a lifetime of future heartache. The way this works is, when you are upset, he will do the bare minimum required to get you to be quiet and back off. Then he'll continue to do just like he's always done before, until you get upset again, at which time he'll throw you a few more crumbs, like saying "That woman was really horrible, and I belong with you." Then you back off again, and he continues to communicate with her.

The way to prevent it is, you have to insist that he follows these steps TO THE LETTER. Do not let up on this. He must change his life to absolutely prevent future contact. Not just give you a good feeling that he's really done with her, he really means it this time, he promises, etc.

toomuch, Susie has posted the plan for you to follow. You are following the plan of "Sign up for repeated grief, over and over again." Stop that, and follow this plan by SusieQ instead:

How can I monitor work computer?? That's where he was emailing her from mostly. That and his phone, which I'll put a key logger on. I'll have to tell him about it because it'll need to be jail broken first. I feel like I can't trust him now, or my instinct! Does surviving the affair mean living in paranoia forever? The book didn't put such paranoia into me and I was fairly confident the affair is over. How long do I surveillance for?

You are NOT supposed to tell him about it. Otherwise he can find and remove it.

My guess is that if he does continue the affair, he will not be able to resist using the phone or home computer to keep in touch with her so you will (hopefully) be able to find out with the keylogger.

I would also recommend that you make as part of your recovery plan the right to set up an appt for a poly at any time with no notice once a year to make sure that there has been no contact.

Having a secret second life for the past six years in which he secretly kept in touch with her mostly thru email at work will be a hard habit to break -- having accountability like a poly will help him.

Just focus on the plan we laid out for you.

What is going on with the NCL fashioned after the one in SAA that has been posted for you?

If you have tell him then there is no point. Obviously, he will just stop using that phone if you have spyware on it. He can help you figure out how to have access to his work computer. I would strongly suggest that he get a job where he didn't have access to a work computer since that is where he conducts his affairs.


You are not going to BE paranoid if you know everything he does, though. That is why we are telling you to watch everything. You should have access to EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING. That will reduce your paranoia.

For as long as you want to have an affair proof marriage.

NC letter was sent out today. He told her to never contact him or me again and if she does he will tell me. He wrote it and I approved it before sealing it and sending it myself. I can't install a keylogger on his computer due to company policy- my brother in law (sisters husband) is actually in charge of the IT dept.

I can't put a key logger on his phone without his knowledge. I mean I can but he will just see that his phone has been jailbroken and will know. He can stop using it but he can't turn it off without my knowing (with the admin access). He's not skilled in anything other than his current field so finding a job without access to computers would be impossible. I think after he reads the book we will have a coaching session to see how we should proceed. I don't want to make life miserable for him or myself in attempts of "surviving" this affair. I know we can build a romantic marriage but I don't know how we can work around some of these issues.

I know he will for sure agree on the poly once a year. Thanks for the idea.

Will she be ABLE to contact him? Because if she is ABLE to contact him, the affair is likely to resume. Promising to tell you is utterly meaningless.


But he can give you the password, can't he? And with that you could sneak the spyware on there?


If being accountable makes your husband "miserable" then you should just get divorced now. My husband is fully accountable and is not "miserable." He is a happy man and we have a great marriage. Any wayward who COMPLIAINS about being accountable is NOT serious about recovery. If he is serious he will be want to PROVE to you he is accountable by becoming transparent to you.

If your husband cannot get a job where his computer is transparent to you, then he needs to find another career. Your marriage won't recover unless the environment that led to the affair is changed. Do you understand this? If nothing changes, then nothing changes.

HOW will your husband GUARANTEE you that he is not in contact with the OW? Somehow he will have to make his work computer transparent.

A lack of trust does not ruin marriages, it is a lack of BOUNDARIES.

We've cut off all possible avenues of communication, short of her sending a physical letter to him. He has new phone numbers and email addresses.

He hasn't complained about anything I asked of him. Not this time. He's willing to do whatever it takes. He has been completely transparent- I have his passwords and everything. As far as the phone- I have the password for it but in order to put the spyware on it I'll have to jail break the phone. Which he would instantly know.

I thought that recovery takes a certain leap of faith. That that's why EPs will be put in place so that even if she does attempt to contact him, or he has the urge to contact her, the EPs are there to ensure it wouldn't happen.

Sorry I appreciate everyone's help. It's just sometimes it seems insurmountable.

Good deal!


That is great! If he does complain that will be a sign that he is not serious. And more importantly, it will be a sign that he has something to hide.


I would go check on the Operation Investigate forum to see if anyone has any tips on this.


Oh no. No leap of faith EVER. That is what led to the affair in the first place. It is too much trust that ruins marriages. Or rather it is blind trust that ruins marriages.

If you want to trust your husband again, then you should be watching him like a hawk to see what he does when he thinks you are not looking. Nothing creates trust more than spying on your H and seeing for yourself that he is faithful behind your back.