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We do not spend much time together at all. Tonight we plan on going out to dinner (at an inexpensive diner but I love it!) and start Christmas shopping.
I have no issues with him spending time with his friends or with doing other activities without me. He's been doing them the whole entire time we have been married. We don't have many common interests because we never really focused on finding them. The few we do are activities done outside during the summer months.
And, because I have recently come to the conclusion that I deserve more and I don't think he is capable of doing more. Yes, you do deserve more, but it doesn't sound like you expect more. You don't do anything to create or maintain an intimate, romantic marriage and then you complain you don't have a good marriage. You can't have a good marriage unless you take steps to have a good marriage. It is hard work to have a bad marriage. Wouldn't you agree? It is so much easier to have a great marriage. Do you remember when you were dating and first married? Wasn't life so much easier then? Actually, no. If you read my first post you would have seen where I said that my husband wasn't ready to be a husband when we got married at the age of 18. It was pure hell! We had no idea what we were doing. If it wasn't for the fact that we were living 100s of miles away from home, we would not have survived that first year. As it was, I had packed up quite a few times, ready to make that trek home all on my own. I have tried to keep this marriage alive for years. I have put him first in hopes that he would do the same. I dunno...I like to read self help books and a lot of the books suggest to put yourself first, love yourself, etc. So, I thought, well maybe he doesn't put me first because I don't make myself a priority either. The whole, 'we teach people how to treat us' mentality...but it seems that some of the marriage builders teaching is to forget what you want, focus on what your spouse wants. No? I am so confused!
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No, that is not what MB is about at all. Sacrifice is the complete opposite of what the Harleys teach. It is about positive healthy codependency/building an intertwined marriage-partnership.
I would suggest that since you've had a long rocky marriage and it's falling apart for years, that you aren't the best person to determine what will make a successful marriage. Have you thought of the coaching centre? Have you read His Needs, Her Needs?
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I don't quite get that... why would spending leisure time away from you make you unhappy? I may be wrong but that seems to me like co-dependent behavior and just as detrimental to a marriage. Unless your husband is an abusive alcoholic or a drug addict, then it makes no sense to discuss co-dependence. A happy, fulfilling marriage is very co-dependent. The reason you don't mind that your husband spends his leisure time away from you is because you don't have an intimate, happy marriage. You don't understand that this is how happy marriages are created. When couples spend their leisure time apart, they GROW apart. But you already know this because this is exactly what has happened in your own marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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...On the other hand, he just left to run errands and get his hair cut and was a little upset that I didn't want to tag along. I wasn't prepared to leave the house so early on a Saturday morning, and even though he said he'd wait around for me, I just didn't want to go to the bother of getting ready. Saturday mornings are my time to lounge with a cup of coffee and my FB games. I should have went, yes?
Well... presumably, the Facebook games don't go away at other times of the day.
But presumably, the barbershop gets crowded as the morning wears on, right? And it eventually closes, right?
He wanted to spend time with you, but you blew him off for some online games that you could access anytime (instead of being willing to negotiate on the timing of your FB activity in order to spend time with him). Seems like you could've been willing to negotiate some alone-time later in the day in exchange for hanging out with him a bit this morning. You could've even stopped to pick up some coffee while the two of you were out. Should've been a relatively easy POJA.
That's my 2 cents, anyway...No, FB games never ever was or ever will be a priority over my husband or kids. I'm not one of those people who will let her kid starve because I was playing farmville. Yes, I should have went, though. But, we had an awesome afternoon together and an awesome evening. Although, during the dinner, we were both on our phones and we didn't talk much. 
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I dunno...I like to read self help books and a lot of the books suggest to put yourself first, love yourself, etc. So, I thought, well maybe he doesn't put me first because I don't make myself a priority either. The whole, 'we teach people how to treat us' mentality...but it seems that some of the marriage builders teaching is to forget what you want, focus on what your spouse wants. No? I am so confused! You missed the whole point of Marriage Builders. MB does not advocate sacrifice. "Loving yourself" is a form of narcissism. It tends to make people egocentric which in turn leads to insensitivity and thoughtlessness. Humility is a great virtue. Behaving selfishly does not make people happy.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[
That may seem weird to some people, but he's happy working at this job whereas he was not happy working at his other jobs. I feel that his happiness at work has helped his attitude towards other things. And he could be happy at another job that allowed him to put his marriage FIRST. That is not the only job in the world at which he can be happy. But like I said previously, it is obvious to me that you are not looking for solutions. People who are not looking for solutions tend to not ever find them. You have a lot of excuses why you can't change.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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What a great article. Scootch. Many of us here have read our share of "self-help" books over the years. Some are quite helpful and some I've read have been minimally beneficial. As you can see from the article that Mel posted, Dr. Harley's philosphies tend to turn other author's approaches on their heads. I've had to suspend my beliefs in some ways in order to adopt the MB philospohy, but MB is the most comprehensive and integrated approach to marriage you will find. You've dicovered a very good resource for turning your marriage into a relationship you never thought could be so wonderful. I wish you well. opt
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I dunno...I like to read self help books and a lot of the books suggest to put yourself first, love yourself, etc. So, I thought, well maybe he doesn't put me first because I don't make myself a priority either. The whole, 'we teach people how to treat us' mentality...but it seems that some of the marriage builders teaching is to forget what you want, focus on what your spouse wants. No? I am so confused! You missed the whole point of Marriage Builders. MB does not advocate sacrifice. "Loving yourself" is a form of narcissism. It tends to make people egocentric which in turn leads to insensitivity and thoughtlessness. Humility is a great virtue. Behaving selfishly does not make people happy. I can see where if someone goes to far in the "loving yourself" attitude where they are hurting others for their own happiness, it could become harmful. However, if you are a confident person who finds happiness within themselves, wouldn't that make them confident in their life and in their marriage? My husband always says that I have to find happiness within and not have my happiness dependent on him.
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[
That may seem weird to some people, but he's happy working at this job whereas he was not happy working at his other jobs. I feel that his happiness at work has helped his attitude towards other things. And he could be happy at another job that allowed him to put his marriage FIRST. That is not the only job in the world at which he can be happy. But like I said previously, it is obvious to me that you are not looking for solutions. People who are not looking for solutions tend to not ever find them. You have a lot of excuses why you can't change. Making him find another job would be very selfish of me. I am looking for solutions, that's why I am here. I am not making excuses, I am stating facts. It is not as easy as up and moving closer to his work. And, it is not as easy as him just finding a new job. He had a job that was less than a mile from home, but he worked second and third shifts so he wasn't home when the kids were and our marriage was just as bad. Then when he wasn't working, he wasn't here because he was out with his buddies. Now that he has a job that he loves, his attitude about life has done a whole turn around. He's not out as often with his friends, granted he's not here either because he is commuting, but when he is here, he's in a much better mood. There are no jobs in this area unless he goes back to the local manufacturing job where he didn't make as much money and be threatened with a layoff constantly which adds even more stress to him and us. How is that any better?
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MB is not about 'talking'/'discovering' yourself etc. It is about action - actually sitting down, planning, and scheduling lots of time together and sticking to it. Putting the marriage ahead of career, location, friends, whatever - in order to make it a happy sustainable marriage. We can't help you if you are going to reject even the basic concepts of that. It is for doers, not talkers. Most marital problems seem to be based on poor habits (no POJA, no undivided attention, independent behavior at the spouse's expense). Here are the basic concepts. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3550_summary.html
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Making him find another job would be very selfish of me. I am looking for solutions, that's why I am here.
The problem is that the solutions are not easy ones because this situation has gone on for so long. The solutions you need to make the marriage work need RADICAL change.
I am not making excuses, I am stating facts. It is not as easy as up and moving closer to his work. And, it is not as easy as him just finding a new job.
No it won't be easy and when right now you don't think it would matter anyway, your attitude is why try.
He had a job that was less than a mile from home, but he worked second and third shifts so he wasn't home when the kids were and our marriage was just as bad.
Of course it was bad. You were not together enough at all not enough to have fun, be each other's best friends, etc.
Then when he wasn't working, he wasn't here because he was out with his buddies. Now that he has a job that he loves, his attitude about life has done a whole turn around. He's not out as often with his friends, granted he's not here either because he is commuting, but when he is here, he's in a much better mood.
There are no jobs in this area unless he goes back to the local manufacturing job where he didn't make as much money and be threatened with a layoff constantly which adds even more stress to him and us. How is that any better? I probably shouldn't be posting here as I am new. The Harleys have a completely different way of looking at marriage than most people. They believe that marriage should be your number one priority and that you should be passionately in love and enjoy doing things together. Read over the basic concepts. Listen to the radio show. Hand in there. Follow his concepts. You have to make radical changes or it will just get worse.
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Tiredwife, I can guarantee that most people, if not all, feel challenged by some MB concepts when they are new  I'm positive that all the 'regulars' here would say the same thing. The difference is that we stuck around because we actually implemented it (hey, we aren't experts) and realized it worked. While others can sit in a counseling office for 2 years still yelling at each other without actually changing their behavior. When you are passionately in love, it seems weird to not enjoy or participate in even mundane activities with your spouse. My H and I split up to go grocery shopping and that's about it. It doesn't feel right to be apart, let alone recreational activities or even trips apart.
Last edited by alis; 10/28/12 02:30 PM.
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I can see where if someone goes to far in the "loving yourself" attitude where they are hurting others for their own happiness, it could become harmful. However, if you are a confident person who finds happiness within themselves, wouldn't that make them confident in their life and in their marriage?
My husband always says that I have to find happiness within and not have my happiness dependent on him. As you can see, that approach has not created a happy marriage. That approach is how marriages fall apart. When you can't find happiness in your marriage, it doesn't last for long. "Finding happiness" in a way that harms your marriage does not create long term "happiness," it leads to divorce. Divorce does not make people happy.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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There are no jobs in this area unless he goes back to the local manufacturing job where he didn't make as much money and be threatened with a layoff constantly which adds even more stress to him and us. How is that any better? Once again, that is not the only solution but you are limiting yourself with your black and white thinking. You won't find solutions to your problems if all of your focus remains on finding excuses why you can't do something. As long as your husband's job and his social life come before your marriage, your marriage will never change. Your marriage comes LAST and it shows in the quality of your marriage. There is absolutely nothing we can do for you if you won't do anything. So far, you can't/won't do anything. How do you expect anything to change unless you change?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Although, during the dinner, we were both on our phones and we didn't talk much.  What are you doing on your phones during dinner??? Are you waiting for an organ transplant? Because I can't imagine why you would be on your phone otherwise. What a distraction!
Last edited by maritalbliss; 10/28/12 07:05 PM.
D-Day 2-10-2009
Fully Recovered and Better Than Ever!
Thank you Marriage Builders!
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I have had to focus on our son, get him the services he needs, get him to be as independent as I can, watch over his schooling, etc and that has left my husband feeling second place. His feeling are valid, but never in our marriage have I ever put him second place. He was/is always my first priority, however I was/am never his first priority. The problem is that neither of you place the other as their first priority. And throughout this thread you have DEFENDED his placement of his career, social life, etc first in your marriage. You have DEFENDED that while complaining about it out of the other side of your mouth. That is not logically consistent. Additionally, every solution given on this thread has been met with an excuse about why it cannot be done. I don't think you are seriously looking for solutions, but rather a place to vent while protecting the status quo. Let us know when you get serious.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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I have a general thought/question about UA time that came to mind while reading this thread. If Scootcher's husband commutes 2 hours each way to work, that makes 4 hours per day. If they talk on the phone while he was driving, and Scootcher could arrange for there to be no distractions on her end, could that time be considered UA time? Even if they only talk for half the time he was driving, that would add up to 10 hours per week, which is a good chunk of the 15-20 they need.
Personally, I think face-to-face communication is much better than phone time because of facial expressions and body language, but time on the phone might be better than no time at all.
Any thoughts on the pros vs. cons of UA time on the phone?
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KL, in my opinion, a wife should not settle for any "better than no time at all" situations. Long term a marriage cannot survive without giving each other undivided attention meeting the four intimate emotional needs. Those are very hard to do over the phone.
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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