</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nam:
<strong> My H wanted more sex and did not ask me or tell me how important it was to him other than to say a few (like 4?) times over many years that he wanted more sex. He never sat me down to discuss the importance of this issue in a way that we could approach it together.

He did say some critical things that made me feel like a frigid wife (which I am not) or worse like I had some horrible hang ups (which I do not), at one point I even questioned whether I'd been abused by my father and repressed it. One of the worst feelings was thinking it was the sex that was the important thing not sex with me: As if anyone would do.

These things did not make the situation better.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This quote from nam could have been written by ME. Here's the interesting thing, tho: H wasn't meeting my EN's, so we were "detached", although he would tell you he WAS, and *I* was the one with the problem.

I honestly think we didn't know HOW TO meet each others' EN's. He would do things *he felt* were "loving gestures" towards me, but I may not have "needed that" from him, and vice versa. Am I making any sense? I guess I'm saying we didn't know each others' love languages. I LOVE that book!! The Five Love Languages, by Chapman. If you haven't read it, YOU NEED TO. It outlines the five ways people express "love" to each other. To you, it might be physical (leading to SF), but to your W, it might be Acts of Service (did you forget to take out the garbage, again?!?)

So, in my mind, he wasn't doing anything for ME! All he wanted was s*x, ALL THE TIME! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Not really, but that's how I percieved it. So I rejected him, by refusing. I realize NOW how much it hurt H when I "wouldn't" engage in SF w/him. Pity I couldn't (or wouldn't) realize it before he left and div me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

There is a section on the Concepts pages about dealing w/sexual aversion spouse. That's another possible place to begin.......maybe it's something else, don't know. I just know - for me - I would give anything to make it up to him now - and hope one day to get the chance to do so.

redFish, you need to be drastic at this point, before this escalates into something devastating. I agree w/the others who've advised you to let her see your posts and try to convince her you are very serious about how critical the situation has become.

I don't think she "heard" you yet. I don't think she believes you yet.

I know I didn't until it was too late. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Go to IC, Go to MC, talk to the Harleys (if you can afford to). Try to bring her into these discussions. IF nothing else, maybe all your "seeking" will convince her you are serious about how bad the situation is.
Do EVERYTHING in your power to fix your M before you succomb to a temptation. You are a prime candidate for an A. I'm SURE your W has NO IDEA what this type of repeated rejection is doing to you. I know I didn't.

God Bless,

I agree with those who say radical honesty at this point is the most important thing....along with a short and long term agreement to deal with this issue. Some honest statements that are not LBs (just because she won't like them, doesn't mean they are LBs!):

I feel like I'm dying inside.

I'm losing my love for you.

I'm seriously considering leaving...I've been pricing apartments.

I'm very vulnerable to an affair right now, and find myself thinking of other women.

I'm very afraid that our marriage is being destroyed because I constantly feel rejected and unloved.

If feel hopeless and defeated when you reject me.

I would like us to see a therapist and work through this problem. How do you feel about that?

redFish,

In addition to the advice you've already been given, I'd like to offer something else...

I was in your sitch as well, but I convinced myself I was strong enough to repress my sexual desire. I did this for years until it couldn't be repressed anymore. It exploded all over me, driving me to seek a partner outside of my marriage.

Whatever you do, DON'T DO THIS!

Work with your wife. Help her to understand that she holds the fate of your marriage.

If your marriage ends because she refused to work with you and you've done all could do, then you've nothing to feel guilty about.

Ask her how she would feel if you quit work and expected her to support the family? How long would she put up with that. It's no different with your need as well.

It's sad, but some spouses refuse to acknowledge that an issue is serious until something knocks them off their perch. As someone has already noted, it may be too late by then.

Low

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I complimented and showed admiration and respect but everything is still the same. I've been dealing with mild depression but do everything possible to act upbeat around her so I'm not a drag to be around. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What's in it for her if the two of you have sex?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Her constant rejection of me physically is killing my love for her... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stop asking her for it. Get off her back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm sad and feel unloved. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's not you, it's her. Don't take it personally.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...she reluctantly allows me a quickie 2 or 3 times a month. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TREMENDOUS!!! Make these opportunities all about pleasing & respecting HER -- not you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Nothing Man:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...she reluctantly allows me a quickie 2 or 3 times a month. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">TREMENDOUS!!! Make these opportunities all about pleasing & respecting HER -- not you. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Excellent advice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lupolady:
<strong> This quote from nam could have been written by ME. Here's the interesting thing, tho: H wasn't meeting my EN's, so we were "detached", although he would tell you he WAS, and *I* was the one with the problem. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is also a really big, massively important point. If there is a problem of any kind in your marriage, you should absolutely not assume that you have meeting your spouse's ENs taken care of. You probably don't as much as you think.

There are a lot of things in life in which complacency = doom. Meaning that if you take the attitude that you've got it handled, that is pretty much a guarantee that you are falling down on the job. That's just the way things are, so life is happiest when you just accept it and always work on being the best you can be in those areas.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by redFish:
<strong> I can't beg or plead, can't fulfill her ENs more or cease LBs much. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't understand this bit. In your first post you identified an area or two where you have room for improvement in meeting her ENs -- why can't you do that? And what does the bit about not being able to cease LBs much mean? Your goal for which you constantly strive should be absolutely zero LBs. If you are LBing, you are definitely making the problem worse.

i feel your pain. your wife should have married my husband. i am at the fed up point.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by mineownself:
<strong> [QUOTE]Originally posted by redFish:
<strong> I can't beg or plead, can't fulfill her ENs more or cease LBs much. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't understand this bit. In your first post you identified an area or two where you have room for improvement in meeting her ENs -- why can't you do that? And what does the bit about not being able to cease LBs much mean? Your goal for which you constantly strive should be absolutely zero LBs. If you are LBing, you are definitely making the problem worse. </strong>[/QUot
_________________________________________________

maybe i am wrong.
i am getting something different.

it sounds like he is afraid that being honest w/ her is an LB.
seems people think.....
"it's an LB to her IF i am honest and bring the subject at all."
so, he is afraid to even be open for fear of LBing.

i don't think any couple can get very far w/o being open and honest.
..... LBs will happen......it's difficult to ELIMINATE them w/o completely understanding why they are an LB in the first place.
WHAT makes mentioning your needs an LB to your wife??

I know what you are saying because I am living the same type of life you are. I wish I had a good answer for you but I do not. I can tell you that being a good H and meeting all her needs is probably not going to get you anywhere.

My W is a good person and I love her, as I am sure you love your W. She seems very happy in the marriage and I have worked very hard to make her happy. Now she didn’t care about my SF needs and told me they are not important. I tried to approach her several times to discuss it but she got angry. She told me SF isn’t important and I should go get counseling and not bring it back up to her.

I decided to try a different path. I did a Plan A where I would do my best to be a perfect H and fill her needs and make her so happy that she would have more empathy for me and would want to change for me. It did work to a point, she told me how happy she was and how much she loved me! After 8 months of this I tried to talk to her again and got the same reaction as before. She is happy it isn’t important to her and I need to go get some help from a counselor. I suggested we both go and she said no way she is happy I am the one that has the problem!

I know a lot of people say meet her needs and all will change but that is just not the case. Think about it if one spouse is happy the way things are why would they want anything to change? My wife said she was happy before I did a Plan A and since I tried extra hard to make her life even better I can see she is happy. But she has no incentive to change her actions because the way she has treated me in the past has made me treat her even better! She has learned that she can ignore my needs and get better treatment from me so there is no incentive to change.

In a fight we had early in our marriage where she was being vicious I told her “It doesn’t matter what you do or say to me I will not leave you”. She always remembered this and I think she may have took that to mean no matter what she does I will take it.

Things have been getting better recently! I had a very honest talk with my W and asked her to go to counseling, she said no. I then told her that things are not working out and if things do not change she could lose me. I told her I have provided her with a huge house I have a good job and have done all I can to make her happy, I also explained to her that I would expect her to start making the same effort toward me. I have read at least 5 books to improve the marriage recently so I asked her to read 1 to try and improve things. I gave her the new Dr. Laura book on the Proper Care and Feeding of a Husband. I felt the book more than any other I had read conveyed my feelings. I had previously read 3 books she had bought but she never read any of them. After reading the Dr. Laura book, she for the first time started to make some changes and I at least have some hope for our marriage. She told me she would have never guessed those things were important to a man and she seemed surprised.

I will not live in a sexless marriage. The thing is I look young for my age and I love my wife and want a decent sex life. If I had let myself go I could at least understand it but I still have all my hair and I am very fit. I have been successful and it causes me great pain that my W did not meet my SF needs after all I have done for her. Now that she knows she could lose me and I am serious her attitude has changed. She has been trying to meet my needs for SF and appreciation and admiration. It takes very little to make me happy but I am a much happier person since she has made an effort.

The bottom line is if my W does not want to have SF with me fine I understand buy I do not want to be married to her anymore. I do not want to provide for her needs if she refuses to do the same for me. I cannot have SF needs met by anyone else as long as I am married and I would rather end the marriage than live without the sex.

You have to decide what is most important to you. I would recommend that you approach your W and be direct on what you need and find a way to convey the gravity of the situation. I don’t mean that you should threaten her but if you are thinking about leaving the marriage over it she needs to know how serious you are. She may need more incentive to make a change. I guess it just depends on how much you want to push this. I know it was a deal breaker for me.

I wish you and your W the best of luck.

I feel for ya. There seems to be a lot of people on this board that assume that everyone can be a "giver". The problem is that some people are just natural "takers" and will only give if it's convenient for them or they see some kind of advantage in it. My wife is that way most times. She says she would do anything for a "friend in need" but when the time comes she always has an excuse as to why she can't. It's like the old saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Our relationship was really bad for a long time. I finally found this site and it has gotten a lot better after some long discussions. She won't meet my EN unless she sees some kind of advantage in it so in order for me to meet hers she has to meet mine which includes SF. This isn't the best situation but maybe it will get better over time when she learns that being a "giver" isn't so bad.

My only advice is to try to make this a situation of, You give me this and I'll give you that. She has to learn that giving in a relationship is a good thing. If she's already getting all the EN she requires and is a natural "Taker" like my wife she sees no advantage in making sure your EN are meet. It'
s almost a "tough love" concept.

Anyway, hope this helps a little...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by redFish:
<strong> So... How do I live like this? I'm sad and feel unloved. I feel like I have no option other than to accept the hand I've been dealt. I feel like crying every day and my eyes well up but the tears don't come. It would almost be a relief. I feel like I'm mouring a death that reoccurs every day. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know exactly how you feel. But there is always hope, and the MB principles will help.
I am high libido W is low.
Same here. I prefer everyday. I stopped asking, and it took 32 dys for my W to ask for sex.

I used to get frustrated after long periods of no SF or mercy sex (ugh) and we'd have 'The Talk'. Things would improve for a week or so then go back to normal.
I've had my share of mercy sex and hurry up sex. There's a lot of "communication" that was missing.

Last post I said I turned this over to God but in thinking about it I don;t really even know what that means. I did stop nagging. Really stopped asking for SF at all. Worked more on fulfilling ENs although she already said I was doing everything she wanted (she reluctantly did the EN survey with me). I did more gifts, cards, flowers than before (I always did this anyway). I did more around the house although there is still room for improvement there. I complemented and showed admiration and respect but everything is still the same. I've been dealing with mild depression but do everything possible to act upbeat around her so I'm not a drag to be around.
I use to view "sex is all" that I need, but this is my false view at the time. I felt starved for sex, that I thought sex was all I needed. After many nights of calm discussion, open discussions, non-LB discussions, I could clearly pin point other ENs that isn't as highly valued as sex.
I also needed affection and admiration. Incorporate these two with RH and O&H communication, leads to spending time and into intimate conversations and eventually to "enthusiastic" sex.

I bought several books but they all seem to come from the premise of two people who are aware of a problem working to resolve it. My W however sees no problem. Everything is great for her. I help out as much as possible, am respectful and loving, bring her cards and flowers and she reluctantly allows me a quickie 2 or 3 times a month.

What we are doing now is not even appealing to me and I'm starting to not want to have SF with her. It's just boring. But of course I have this desire to have a passionate relationship with my W. I have this aching gnawing feeling in my gut but no way to resolve it.
I think I called this "lack of passion" in my M.

I have begun to lose respect for her and no longer see her as a partner. It's more like she is just somebody I live with and do things with. Her constant rejection of me physically is killing my love for her and I'm no longer even discussing it with her. We've talked about this a hundred times over the course of our relationship and I've come to realization that the only person in the world I can be passionate with does not want to be passionate with me. I feel rejected and humiliated especially because she doesn't seem to care about this issue. If she recognized it as a problem and was working on it I would feel better but she seems to just ignore it.
My exact words to my W, "I feel rejected by you. I feel un-loved." When I could "bravely" form my words, I was able to say those honest things without LB, without anger. Eventually, my W began to open up also. She became unfraid that whatever she told me, will not be ridiculed, will not be disrespectfully judged by me. She felt "safe" to speak her mind, even if it does hurt me inside.

Thoughts of leaving her enter my mind constantly. I'm afraid that by staying I'm dooming myself to a life without passion. But I made a promise to God that I would stay until death and I plan to honor that.
Nothing wrong with planning out a Plan B, or any other worse case scenario. I too believe in God, but the reality of my M is that "choice" to be married is a decision by two, not just me.

So... How do I live like this? I'm sad and feel unloved. I feel like I have no option other than to accept the hand I've been dealt. I feel like crying every day and my eyes well up but the tears don't come. It would almost be a relief. I feel like I'm mouring a death that reoccurs every day.
A lot of changes, I changed ME. Dealing with resentment. Focusing on improving me, so that I will be healthy and survive my worse case scenario.
Sorry to whine but this is the only place I can come to let my feelings out. I'm not comfortable talking to this situation with friends (would be inappropriate) and cannot do counseling (no time or money). She no longer cares to talk about it and refuses counseling.
It's not whining, it's a real dillema. I too did not want to speak with close friends, and turned to MB forums to ask specific questions. W would not even consider talking to counselors. I had to come up incorporating what I learn in MB in my M. It's a lot of hard work.

Any thougthts? I'm worn out thinking about it but I can't stop.
Ultimately, it will be your "choice."
I had to know myself, my limits.
Once I can control my emotions during conversations, I began to learn communication with my W.
Once I read about the MB principles, I have to learned and practice them everyday in my M, in my life.
I plan A, even though there was no affair. Everyday, consciously meeting her ENs. Everyday, dealing with my own resentment and withdrawals.
Until I was confident to communicate and validate her feelings, and ready to hear her "truths" that hurt me. I questioned our M, our commitment. I spoke the possibility of divorce. I felt mourning at the loss of love and passion. I said I'm no longer "in-love," yet will always love her.
I asked why she accepted my marriage proposal. I spoke of my "unsaid expectations" in the M. I validated her feelings about sex. Sex was even a "tabu" subject, but it's a very open subject between us now. Once it was clear that "talking about sex" does not always lead to "me wanting and asking for sex." I learned to thank her for sharing her thoughts every time I learn something from her views and beliefs.
So anyway, feel free to ask. I request you make it specific because it's hard to answer general questions concerning sex. I tend to respond as how it relates in my learn experiences while MB'ing.


MB is a working, positive progress in my M.

Does she feel that you spend enough time with her, do you guys communicate on a deeper level? Are there any thing she has said that you have ignored or not addressed? Do you actually care about her feelings? (I'm not trying to come off as rude or anything, just a few questions that might maybe help...maybe idk!)

I know at the moment, I'm struggling with giving my husband sex like he wants/needs because we have a lot of issues and I feel used/ that's all he wants me for among many,manh other things... What did you do to try and get her to fall in love with you? Try it again! (try reay hard and not jut for a week or so. ) (I'm sure our situations are prob quite a bit different and what im saying might not be revelang, but maybe if you can get into her head more and both of you be honest it might work better.)

AJC, do you realise that this thread has been dead since 2004?

How did you even find it to post to it?

Probably the same way I do on forums, he's browsing and forgets that it's a not a current thread.