I wouldn't drive yourself crazy trying to figure out a falling down drunk. Just focus on your plan.

While I haven't read through your entire thread, I have read some. ***EDIT***

I was glad to see you'd come here. This place, with all the vets like Melodylane, celticvoyager, maritalbliss, and many others, can really guide you.

I know I'm not doing much to offer you any advice, but I will say this site gives you the best chance at recovery, either marital or personal or both.

Stay strong, friend. It all can be quite draining but things will eventually get better. It has taken me quite a while to get where I am but where I am is HAPPILY SINGLE!!!

Thanks MSS! I'm living day to day. ***EDIT***

here's a recap of my encounter this weekend, it's lengthy, but I didn't know how to summarize. I have been sending her random texts when I'm thinking of her, wishing her sweet dreams at night, etc. I had some response up to halloween when she wanted photos, but none really since the wedding. read on....

man, where to begin.

Went to to the wedding last Fri. Bought new clothes, I was the most formal one there, with a cool vintage tie on. fully overdressed, on purpose (I was the photographer too). The vows were very good, almost brought me to tears, many prayers about fidelity, staying the course, sharing the burden of marriage, responsibility of the witnesses to help the marriage in time of need. very powerful. the stbx and D were in plain site to my left while I was shooting the ceremony, I caught her looking at me a couple times, lucky I had my camera to hide behind, I woulda looked pretty foolish if I cried!

After the ceremony I said hi to her as I walked past, told her and the D they looked great, and put my arm around the stbx and said quietly "I hope this isn;t too awkward for you" She said it kind of is. My D was super excited to see us together. The stbx was fidgeting w her phone the whole time and my D kept telling her she was getting texts (she lets the D play w her phone a lot). She was obviously nervous.

We ended up being seated together at the D's request, even tho both sets of parents know the story, and the brides parents have been married 40+ years.
More on that in a bit.

we ate, small talk, i felt no anxiety, totally confident, and it was great to see my D on a fri i normally wouldn't. We had a couple parenting moments over getting her to eat, it was oddly "normal". The brides sister came and sat at our table too, and had some good convos.

dance time - I'm up shooting photos, the bride is trying to get everyone to dance, including the stbx. She doesnt' want to, the D is kinda following suit, although spent most of the time playing with friends. Then out of the blue she gets the stbx and leads her over to me by the hand, takes my hand, puts them together, takes my left hand and puts it on her lower back back and says something like "you two need to dance so you can get back together."

I was floored, the stbx looked at me, then the ground, I felt the shame, stubbornness, like she wanted to run and hold me and cry at the same time. I hugged her, held the back of her head and whispered in her ear , "you know I still love you" she lingered, I felt her almost just "give in" and cry/hold me. she didn't really pull away, I let her go, asked if she wanted to dance. then had to get a photo, so I pulled away. She went and sat by herself at our table for the next 30 min. She was messing w her phone and I went to get a drink I noticed she was fighting back tears "hiding" behind her phone. She was pretty melancholy the rest of the night, and my D got in that mood too, which is far from normal. (she'll dance the night away with the kids usually)

They left fairly early and I ended up having a talk with both the grooms moms about my situation. They were all hanging out drinking, first time in 30 years. His real mom told me to be strong, and know that even if it doesn't work it will be OK. She did say that her D wasn't worth it (she had an affair and left) and she still loves her ex, even tho they haven't seen or talked much in close to 30 years. She's on her 3rd ex now, and said that the grass isn't greener, and to stay my course, try to save the marriage. I got similar from his step Mom.

Later I went back to the brides family's rental to hot tub and have beers with them (they were only in town for a couple days, no honeymoon) Her family asked me what happened to my marriage, I gave them my version, they were all annoyed she would pull something like this. The brides Mom gave me some stories about how they've been thru rough spots and have pulled it together, and that NO marriage is easy. I actually got a lot of good support no matter what happens, and I talked about the vows, and how I wish the stbx's family would stick up for our vows.

So the lame part now - I was invited to hang out the next day, skateboard, beach, dinner. The stbx had said they had other plans. Little did I know she beat me to it and went and hung out with the wedding party until 10 at night with my D! I was effing annoyed, it was my last shot to see my friend until he split back to CO. Hate this stuff. Splitting up friends. My D was texting me from her phone and told me. LAME. I ended up going out, meeting up w friends, having some moonshine and getting belligerent at the bar, hitting on some redhead friend of a friend with huge boobs! Not bad, but definitely not fulfilling!

part 2

At the wedding I had asked the stbx if she could help watch the D this weekend as I have a huge art/skate/music event I am doing as part o fa 1 day outdoor live art festival I've been doing for the last 3 years (I won it last year, BTW) She told me she could help out for a while, and would look at her schedule.

Mon. when i picked up the D she immediately told me Mom would NOT help out and it was my problem to find childcare and only if the D was with her. She also brought up other stuff about our divorce etc.

I slipped and said this is why I'm sick of stbx's crap. Didn't want to bash her, but sending the kid home to tell me about her NOT helping is total bs. I have been looking for someone else but they're either involved, or I will have to drive (I'm stuck at the event for almost 12 hrs.)

My D is excited and is involved too, but I don't want to run her ragged. The stbx WAS part of it in a big way, but not now. It came up on the phone last night because of teh D and she now says she'll help. I'm confused as hell, and trying to find someone else!

Ahhh, love the headaches this b!tch is leaving me with. No family for me to ask, and hers (who normally would come) are obviously out. Plus it's my weekend with the kid. I'd have her go home and sleep but I'm not letting the stbx in my house without me there, and I have no babysitter to fall back on that I would trust.

Aside from that bs, the stbx has shot me some nasty looks on facetime with the kid (I had to hang up the other night when she was "too tired" to do it.

I did have one of the craziest dreams (i've ever had) about her early this morning.

We were in bed cuddling, I was holding her, she kept trying to kiss me (kinda sheepishly/unsure) but would pull away everytime I kissed back. This happened a couple times, then she pulled me tight to spoon her and I woke up. I looked around, it was so real I felt like she was in the room, I looked around and felt I was being watched. so intense, I've felt ghost presence before, and this trumped that feeling like crazy. Gives me chills writing about it. I can't explain how real it was enough...

Then out of the blue today she texts me all happy about a skatepark article she read in the weekend paper, laughing at how much much better it is than the other ones around, and about a photo of a friend that went with it. Odd. I recounted the dream to her, but that went unreplied to (obviously) and I feel like I effed up sending it to her.

We'll see how the weekend goes, it will be a blast, we're doing huge graffiti pieces on cellophane at the skatepark live, with live bands. My D has been skating everyday after school that I have her, and is loving it and progressing. She can't wait, but it looks like it will be a long day for her.

there's my update for the last week, can't believe all this happened, and it's only a part of what my week entailed. The stress of the D, single dad life and trying to renegotiate my house loan is overwhelming.

So, after the dream this morning, and her non response to any of the "positive" texts I've been sending I am wondering if I should keep going or just let it all go to D. I have been highly conflicted and working on moving on/feeling better about myself, whichever way this turns out. The holidays coming up are really starting to get to me, and not seeing my kid everyday.

I have talked to my kid again and she asked me teh name of OM, although I have a feeling she knows. She also told me her mom wouldn't lie about there be another person, I really want to stay out of any he said/she said battle. I have a feeling it will put her family even more against me, as they wouldn't help actively save my marriage, and here Mom is the type to say "if it makes you happy, go for it" instead of "stay true to your vows and figure out your marriage before you go find OM".

So, I will continue my path of improving myself, getting back in shape a moving forward, but continue to have an open door I guess.

You need to tell your daughter the absolute truth. She needs to know.

Awesome update.

So teh D knows the truth now, I was putting it off until after teh weekend, but events involving the W ended in teh D asking her to stay here, getting deined and talking to me. I told her about the divorce and why it would be odd for mom to stay on teh couch. she asked about OM again, I told her not now (bedtime) and she said let me guess. FIrst on - OM name.

and hour of tears, anger, wanting mom, not wanting step parents. Me explaining etc. told her about the emails, (my proof). Hurts like anything, but I told the D it's not her, or me, it was a choice mom made, and the OM is a a hole for doing that. D recounted their conversations, drinking beer, hearing my name, being ignored etc....

she's pissed

Oddly the W was REALLY wanting to help out with childcare for my event this weekend.... D doesn't want to sleepover w mom at a friends, she wants mom home.

well it's done! next step after teh fallout of this?!

You did the right thing by telling her. I know it still hurts, but at least you were honest.

Just help her with the anger she will experience.

Ok, another big update....

well huge weekend, had a blast all in all.

the stbx came up to help, I saw K's family earlier in the day, was a bit awkward, they were a little "off" from the normal personalities.

Ran in to the stbx as i was taking the D back from the restroom, first word out of her mouth to me was "oh, is that a beer, can i have one?" I told her she shoulda brought her own, then I slowed down to take a picture and let them walk off.

The D was beat, she wanted to go early, most likely to tell Mom about the day and the OM talk we had. Later when we're packing up K's husband comes by with his FIL and uncle. I ask him if he saw the stbx and kid, he had no idea they were at his house or staying. the FIL asks how we're doing, I tell them the short version of her A, and that i tried to R. Offer them a beer but they're headed home after a day at a rib fest.

fast forward to the AM, I'm cleaning house, a bit hungover and beat from a long day, the stbx keeps texting they will be by, am i home, etc. They finally show up, the stbx is obviously not happy. I am cheerful, ask her how the night went for the D, and tell her i saw K's husband last night. That sends her over the top. How telling him made him feel awkward, that teh reason for our marriage is that I'm a jerk, and telling people all over town in bs etc. Then she says OM texted her teh cheaterville link. She goes off on the "you're not a man" bs, since she won't be married to man who talks about her like that, or puts things on cheatervilee.

She starts in on the D knowing who OM is, and if I talk about adult things to her I'll lose custody ! I am fairly amused at this point, she's raving mad, re writing the marriage, how it's all my fault. She keeps saying if I want the marriage why would I make her look so bad to our friends, how could I tell the D, etc. I tried to get in edgewise that the D told me, and she already knew, but I let her spout off. She tried to minimize the A again and i said the reason for our divorce is that there wasn't just one, but 2-3 A's?

Having been prepared for the fallout made this a lot easier, she was bs on the books I gave her again, she brought it up. I She was so pissed, and I was just talking normally, logically, few words. She kept on the "you're not the man I want to be married to" bs, and how I've all of a sudden changed to be a better person, but she thinks it's bs, I'm still thsi big a-hole that never met her needs.... my last words were "you know this will all repeat in your next marriage, with OM or whoever else!" She yelled out the window she's never getting married ever, and it will be to someone who is better than me!

The D and her friend caught a bit of it and were inside laughing about the stbx. D said mom is super pissed she knows about OM, and it's inappropriate i talk about it (moms words). the STBX had had said something about foul language to the kid, which to her credit I said, once when she was going off to the D about not helping me out with childcare - I told D I'm sick of her crap - poor choice on my part, and then with the OM talk, I told her that i think Om is an @sshole and family wrecker. I also asked her to excuse my language when i said it. I know she told mom both of those, but stbx thinks I've been talking like that in front of the kid to friends.

So that one sided argument out of the way I started hang with the kids and finish cleaning up. I texted the stbx it's a shame to see you so mad. holy text marathon. she blew up my phone all afternoon. "I'm confused, you act so nice in texts, but it's not the real you" why can't we get along, why talk to friends about our personal issues, why talk about it in front of the kid, you think it's all my fault on and on.

I sent two long texts back to her. very clear. If there are people who have heard me bad mouth her / talk in front of the kid, name names. I reiterated I would fight for the marriage, and there's nothing to be confused about. If she wants out she gets it. but my reasons are her A's. I spelled it out, names, etc. no blame, nada. I then recounted the kid talk with her as she seems to think I am telling the kid. One more long text about the D knowing it all and spilling the beans about vacation before I got there, how she felt left out by Mom, how she overheard my name, and them whispering.

she texted a few more jabs about how I had 5 years to be the wonderful man I claim to be, how the books I gave her about divorce/affairs should cover what an a hole I was and finally ended with "all I want is peace between us, anyway that can happen?!"

I didn't reply until this afternoon when I asked her if she will swap a day to pickup the D since i have an assisting gig for a commercial shoot on Wed for a big brand that is headquartered here. hoping to get in with them good!

I spent the rest of yesterday letting my D and her friend play with spray paint, ride bikes, skateboard, eat candy, get ice cream while I made ribs from a wild hog my buddy caught. We had some friends over, a few girls too, including the one from the bar last weekend. I think her friends are trying to set her up with me, she left to see her NOT BF, then came back all pissed cuz he's douche. (confirmed by everyone, including the guys!) tried to cheer her up a bit, i had given her crap for the dine and dash, made a joke about how he didn't make her dinner or take her out to eat! She said she should have stayed. One of her friends made a comment I overheard that she came back to see me....

getting myself in trouble already!

well the kid swap texts turned to why I'm still a jerk (for the "argument" she had yesterday) and how if I had met her needs she wouldn't have had "crushes" on other men, and the best one - "why would I tell you I had them if you just go around tellin everyone about it, that's not true love"!!!! hole crap blame shift.

a rewrite of the marriage, again. She's telling me I'm confusing, by telling everyone about the A, and filing but that i want to work out our mariage. She doesn't understand. I sent a couple back about affairs not working when you talk about them, and that the D is exactly what she wants and my reasons for filing (A, house, etc). She added that the only reason she didn't leave me sooner was i guilted and shamed her into staying... and that she's her own person and I can't control life, or her. I replied "you just defined an affair".

I maintained what I've gone thru with this mess, the personal development, reading etc. has made me realize i don't want our old marriage at all. I added that the trust has been killed not just with her, but this process affects all my relationships going forward. I also recounted what our friend said about her coming back "in a moment of weakness" and my reply of seeing that as a moment of strength. I really tried to stay away from any blame game/guilt stuff, focussed on my D and got a reply that divorce is not up to her. wow. That's pretty much where my desire for R comes from, that our kid DOESN"T get a choice and will forever have that burden.

what a funny day, she's mad at me "for being the same a-hole" yesterday, but loves it that I'm being nice and firm in my texts? I've been very positive - i.e., good night/good morning, hope you day is going well when I have to text about the kid/school etc. So her confusion that i filed, but I'm back in shape and nice, but still the a-hole in person? is this her coming out of the fog a bit??

last big one, looking for advice here, TAM pushes the D....

So here's the text that came from hera couple hours later yesterday.

"Well, i still want to get divorced, i intend on keeping skaterdad as my last name, who knows what the future holds, but i can never completely clear the slate unless i am on my own, figuring myself out, not married to you because i think there is energy attached to it that needs to be severed so i can feel myself and not feel controlled and boxed in by you and what you think i should do and feel. If you continue to work on yourself and i do the same then who knows."

after i talked to my D, stbx texted that she was sorry the D hung up "rudely" and was talking to her about it. My guess is the D told her we had friends over, including 3 women the stbx doesn't know at all.

I have a feeling the OM is still in the picture, she was mad about the cheaterville link, and told me I could have my online presence tarnished. except, you know, I didn't get caught courting a married woman.

so after a week of some nice texts (sent) and her watching the kid an extra day so i could assist on a location shoot, i get another text of why we're done, and thanking me for the nice texts, but not changing her mind. The next AM i have a text with a good morning smiley, etc. asking about t day kid arrangement. She also was overly helpful when watching the kid, maybe she's just trying to butter me up!

Sat I go for a ride with a female friend to a new mountain bike trail. that evening the W is on FB liking the friends check in with me, and lurking my FB posts. I ask her jokingly if she's lurking. we chat, i am headed to camp on an island, tell her it would be nice if she was there to enjoy it with me. she replies it would be fun, until we drink and stay up and get pissed and ruin the fun. I say I'm sorry she feels this way, and reiterate I miss my W and the things we did together. SHe gets even more nasty about how I'm, rude, how she turned off to me (even recently, seems like everything I do pushes her away!) I again tell her I am here for the marriage if she is willing to take a hard look at the issues. That I love my family and will fight for it until the end. I leave it at that, and let her know I was just telling her it would have been fun to have her camp.

Now the issues is (or not) she has reached out to my parents to talk, be friends and said they can ask her questions. I'm wary of my stbx getting really friendly w my parents and/or trying to push her story on them (justifying the A) I also don't want a "friend" of an ex being close to my parents if it is done and over with.

any advice on how to proceed with that? I know my parents don't want to be a go between, but they know the story and are one of the few who I sent the hotel res. email from OM to.

Good job telling your daughter. I know that hurt, but it was necessary as she must know the person (other than her mother) that is destroying her family. I'll bet your WW was pissed. She shouldn't be though; she should be ashamed. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way with addiction.

Sounds to me like your WW has this little fantasy about keeping her adultery partner and your family both. If I were you I would let her know exactly how this goes down in the event of divorce. No co-parenting, but complete parallel parenting. No more contact with your parents and other family members. Find out who your real friends are and have then contact her as well and tell her that if she continues down this path that she can forget about them forever. Trust me on this one, crises always reveal who your true friends are....and aren't. Dealing with that one now myself but for a different reason.

Keep on Plan A'ing, but start prepping for Plan B. Like ML said in an earlier post to you, this seems to be a way of life for her, and quite unlikely to change. She's too used to having that cake and eating it too. Maybe it's time to throw some of that cake into the disposal. It would appear that she has become so conditioned to this kind of lifestyle because she's never had to suffer the consequences of her actions.

You sound like a very nice guy, but maybe a bit too nice for your (and your daughter's) own good considering what you're having to deal with here. Plan A is not Plan Lay Down. I thing you're making this WAY too easy for her. If I were you I would be laying down some seriously uncomfortable scenarios if she continues like this.

Allow her to suffer the consequences of her actions, choices, and decisions.

You'll be doing her a favor.

Just my thoughts.

viper - yes, you're on to it there! I was NC with her for a month, recently it's been a bit more, I have stated I am in this to save our marriage and be a family for our child. I also have not continued with my D paperwork, although she's not capable of owning her actions. at least now. How to I switch a Plan A to remove the cake eating when she's not even living here? When she first threw the A in my face I packed up her clothes and changed the locks. She now uses this as a reason she wants to D!! After her text about keeping my name and us maybe "working" in the future - I'm not going to wait around for her to play the field and be a backup plan.