My H just left for work, rotating shift. He hardly spoke, refused anything I offered in the way of dinner or coffee. Acted angry.<P>He has done this everytime I have gotten down. I usually end up apologizing to him because of it and we ease up for a while.<P>Why do I do all the apologizing? I guess he tries and I won't accept until I'm ready to.<P>It isn't bothering me this time that he is being so cold. Have I grown stronger or weaker? <P>Am I fearing that I am ready to give up or am I comforted that I am ready to go on?<P>I breathed a sigh of relief when he walked out the door. I have an evening and night to myself without pressure, without action, without decision.<P>He insists he hasn't been unfaithful for over one and ahalf years. He promises he will never do it again. I used to take comfort when he would say that, but at the same time get furious that he did in the first place and that I couldn't truly believe him. I don't feel anything anymore. Do I finally believe him or does it just not matter anymore?<P>I don't want to make up just to be thrown for a loop again. I'm tired and I need for him to fight the fight and let me rest.

I just came home from church services. There was no message on the phone. He usually calls at least once from work because he drives 75 miles on old roads oneway to work.<P>We are having a stand off. That is a wonderful example of the maturity level in this relationship.<P>Why can't he fight for me? I have been fighting for over a year to save my marriage. If I get depressed he gets mad and says I am giving up. I have not seen anything that appeared that he was fighting for our marriage. He has always expressed everything was okay now. I gave up on myself a long time ago. I have now decided to give myself another chance, but am afraid that might mean giving up on him.

Have you tried counseling ? Your h is not understanding that you need closure and also why the affair happened so that the problems can be rectified.<P>He probably still feels guilty and gets defensive when you get depressed, thinking you are punishing him. That is why you need counseling to help you both understand one another instead of reacting to the others emotions.

I don't know what is going on in your marriage, but I can almost guarantee you are not on the same page with your H.<P>I know about having bad days and the pain they bring. I also realized, for the most part, I don't know what brings them on, or if there is a trigger, my H had no control over it. So when I am "down" my situation has not changed, only my perception of it.<P>Your H probibly lacks empathy and communication skills. He may feel defensive or just plain clueless.<P>You may be misinterpreting each other's motives. You may be locked in a dance. Besides holding on and getting through each day, what have you done to improve your marriage? What have you read, listened too or experienced.<P>If you keep doing what you have always done, you will keep getting the same results.<P>You are crying out. You assume your H is hearing and ignoring. Your H may not have an entirely different perspective on the situation. <P>I hope you find the peace you need. <P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

We have read His Needs Her Needs. <P>If I take our marriage solely on the way he treats me most of the time, there have been a lot of improvements. He atleast pays attention to me, but he is completely out of touch when it comes to my emotional needs. <P>He does not seem to be able to perceive or comprehend what his actions have done to me. <P>He honestly acts like it was an isolated incident that a simple "I'm sorry, it will never happen again" should take care of.<P>First of all, it wasn't an isolated incident it was a bad 13 years topped off with a 1 year affair with a woman he still has the ability to contact and see at work. It was supposedly over 1 1/2 years ago, yet he has never told her to go away and still finds her attractive.<P>There has been no outward pain from him, except when it comes to her. <P>No amount of good treatment can take the place of repentance. No amount of not doing will change the fact the he did what he did and seemed unscathed by it.<P>The closest thing I get in the way of remorse or emotion is anger directed at me usually because he says I don't care enough for him to keep trying.<P>He has tried to improve the marriage, but he has never tried to atone for his actions.

The problem I am dealing with now is the one I brought up in my post yesterday entitled TO ALL MEN I NEED AN ANSWER.<P>I have told my H what I need. I have spelled it out in detail to a ridiculous extent. He can't give it to me. He does not feel pain for what he did to me. He tells me that he has suppressed him emotions out of guilt for so long that he has lost touch with them. That would be believable, except when it comes to her he does show emotion. He will say that it bothers him that I have lost so much weight and I am obviously hurting and have even considered suicide, but it is only words. When I finally told him that I heard his OW had been forced to take mental health leave (he apparently did not know this), there was real pain in his face and in his voice and he told me he felt bad for hurting her.<P>I've told him I need for him to join me in my sorrow and pain and the closest he could come to words of comfort was to tell me he still has a problems lusting after attractive women and wondering what it would be like to have sex with them.<P>He continues to rip my heart out over and over again and then acts surprised that I feel he has done it.<P>He says I am selfish because all I think about is what he did to me and mine. If he would just think about it every once in a while maybe I wouldn't have such a time with it. It would be a lot easier for me not to resent his heartache over the other woman if I saw some sort of emotional feeling toward me. He cried when he ended it with her. He treated me hatefully in the aftermath. He told me about the affair very matter-of-factly, completely dry eyed and then went to sleep. Over the past year and ahalf he has showed anger toward me that he says is really directed at himself, and he has showed anger toward me for "giving up" on the marriage. <BR> <BR>I have come to the point where I feel that I must end the relationship in order to salvage a little bit of dignity.<p>[This message has been edited by Bottom of the List (edited November 04, 1999).]

Dear Bottom of the List,<P>My heart aches for you. You are in a very difficult place, and so is your H. You should both not only go to marriage counseling, but individual therapy. You both have seperate issues that need to be addressed; his anger, your hurt and anger, his lack of emotion toward you, etc. I may be a man, but I truly am having a hard time suggesting anything. My W is having the affair, and my heart breaks every day.<P>You mentioned church. I have found that the Lord has been a great help, and is with me through this. It is an adversity in your life that the Lord has allowed. I will pray for him to lift this adversity from you, and pray for his guidance for both of you. <P>I know personally, that for a long time I have had to "control" the situation, right the wrongs and make things fair. I did not have faith, and was proud, arrogant and self centered. Ask the Lord to help you look within yourself and see what changes you need to make. Hopefully, you can find the peace and acceptance to work toward a reconciliation with your H.<P>JoeJohn

Hi,<BR>If you use the search feature of this forum and type in the words remorse, you can find several good threads related to the concept of that "feeling". I fear that you have not come to the understanding and acceptance of the fact that the betrayer, for the most part, feels justified in his/her actions, and therefore will NEVER feel strong remorse. They may be sorry for any pain you have encountered by the experience, but will never be truly remorsefull for having had the experience themselves.<BR> <BR>As for atonement...<BR>I looked it up in the dictionary, because I was not sure what you were expecting from your H.<P>It says...<BR>atone...to become reconciled, to supply satisfaction for, to make amends.<P>atonement... reconciliation. Reparation for an offense or injury. Reconciliation of God and man through the death of Jesus Christ.<P>Reconcile...to restore to friendship, harmony, communion...to cause to submit or accept.<P>Consider for yourself what exactly it is you desire and expect from your H that will satisfy you, that will PROVE he is attempting to make amends. What changes or modifications to his behavior would satisfy you that marriage building is his goal? Are your expectations realistic? Are you seeing what he has done to reconcile and accepting his efforts as such? What is going on to contribute to restored harmony and communion? Are you doing your part, too? <BR>Give these ideas some thought then perhaps, use these terms to talk to your H in a non-threatening way. Let him know exactly what you would like to see, hear and feel from him, and ask him what it is he expects from you. Stress the underlying desire to live your lifes together in harmony with love.<P>Worth a try. <P>Good Luck<P><BR>Beth<BR>

I want him to hurt, not for her, not just for his weakness, but for me and our children and our pain. I want this to have been hard enough that he would rather die than to do it again. I want him to acknowledge to me that he understands how important this has been to me. I want him to reassure me that he understands that I am not just weak and "overreacting". I want him to comprehend that my heart is broken, I am in physical pain. This wasn't just something we need to work through. I will never be the same. I had such complete and total trust in him. I depended on him so totally and completely, even though I wasn't loved by him and never considered very important, I was willing to live the rest of my life in this marriage because I had promised to. I was willing to never experience sexual satisfaction or true love by going to someone else because I had promised to be faithful to him. I wasn't getting what I needed either, but I didn't betray him. He says it was just because I didn't have the opportunity. I told him I made sure of that.<P>When I tell him these are the things I need, he says he knows and he understands, but that is it. He says them, but he doesn't show them or feel them. He would tell me he loved me everytime he called from work all during his affair, and then go off to a secluded place with the OW. Words mean nothing when they come from the mouth of a person who can live a lie so very easily.<P>He gave her everything that I longed for since the beginning of our marriage. He was attracted to her and I never felt attractive. <BR>He chose to spend time with her and never spent time with me unless there was nothing else to do. <P>He was sexually stimulated simply by her, not just by what she did to try to stimulate him. He never acted like the mere thought of me was enough to stimulate him. <P>He worked and gave to satisfy her sexually, he never did for me. We had a very one sided sexual relationship.<P>He talked to her and told her his feelings. He never would give me any more information about anything than what I specifically asked for. If I asked for too much he said I was nagging.<P>He loved her. I never felt loved.<P>He showed emotion to her, he never has or does to me.<P>He misses her, he settled for me.<P>He cares that he hurt her, he tries to ignore that he is still hurting me.<P>He honestly feels that the fact the he ended it and is trying to treat me better is enough. He doesn't understand that he hasn't ended it, he might have stopped it for a while. He has never told her to go away, and he isn't treating me any better emotionally. I am still the least important person in his life and he is still selfish, inconsiderate and insensitive to my emotional needs. When it comes down to it, his ego rules his actions.