I just found this site after months of looking for self-help, guidance, and trying to sort thru the devastation. I feel for everyone here and wish everyone the best:)

I returned home from a business trip and my husband confessed that his 22 year old employee was in need of help. He claimed another employee called him at 4 a.m. stating that the OW was thrown out of her place by her boyfriend. She went out drinking and her phone died so the OW's friend wanted my husband to go look for her. (BS!! Who calls their boss at 4am!). Next, the OW had enough charge in her phone to call my husband and he graciously offered her to come sleep at our house so she could get ready for work in the morning. He claimed she was in need of help and that they would do the same for him. (BS!!! With 500+ friends on Facebook, not one she could call!) He claims nothing happened. He stated he would not risk what we had and that he would leave me before cheating on me. So I ask.. What shower did she use? Did you offer her a toothbrush? No Did she use the hairdryer? No-she didnt wash her hair. Hmmmm...what women takes a shower but doesn't wash their hair or wet it to get it looking normal? So if she didn't wash her hair, didn't ask for a toothbrush, and just washed up then she could of done that AT WORK or gone home to her grandmothers house. Now I am suspicious, very suspicious. He is telling me because there are witnesses...my neighbors!

I take a look at the cell phone and find a photo of her in her underwear. I confront him and he states its from facebook. BS! It was sent and even if it was from FB, WHY did you save it!!

Now I go into stealth mode. I find a deleted text about kissing and I confront him. He states it was just a peck, swears up and down. I know he's lying so I dig deeper and keep up my snooping.

I find another text a week later. Now its more sexual and explicit. I confront him again and now he admits to it. Finally he stops lying and tells me everything. I have to admit, I only absorbed a fraction of what he told me as it was so overwhelming. My world came tumbling down around me.

From what I can peice together, as he doesn't like "rehashing" it over and over again is that she broke up with her BF prior to my business trip. There was flirting at the time after she discussed her break up with him and confided in him. Apparently he had promised her a drink and they went out after work to discuss ther relationship. He stated they parted ways and then she called, not sure if I beleive that. From the phone records, she was at my house around 2:30 a.m. and he claims nothing happened, again I dont beleive it. Seriously, what a great opportunity and if you are going to risk her coming to your house, why not?? Doesn't make sense.

He offered to quit his job and go to counseling. I have asked that he no longer take his iphone into the bathroom since this is where he'd start texting her every morning. I asked that while he gave his 2 week notice, that he does not work with her. He claims they did not have intercourse, just oral sex. I find it hard to beleive from the texts that I read. Most of the sexual physical activity occurred at work followed by hours of sexting in between plus while at work. I took all joint property out of his name as she is 22 and he is 45, she'd not going to just disappear. She fell for him. I texted her, carefully choosing my words, and she was not phased. In fact, I dont even think my husband is remorseful. You'd think he'd send me flowers or something, nothing! He acts as if it didnt happen. In fact, just yesterday she texted him but he did not text back (thankfully)however he did not tell me! HE SHOULD BE TELLING ME IF SHE CONTACTS HIM!! It's called being open and transparent. I just texted her telling her to stop texting my husband, short and sweet. Hopefully she will take heed.

Counseling-
We started counseling and he claimed that he had the affair because of the lack of attention I give him. He also stated that I gained a lot of weight since we got married but still loved me. Well, the truth be told..there was no sex for 4 years. I brought it up to him on 3-4 occassions as to why and his reasons were: the dogs sleep in the bed or he has no desire. Why I didn't initiate? Well he had a problem in that area so I figured I'd wait till he was ready so I didn't kill his self esteem, put pressure on him, or make him feel inadequate. Guess my thoughtfulness backfired on me. Now, he still claims that he has no desire but he did with her! I've asked him to go to the Dr to find out, perhaps its his blood pressure meds. Nope, wont go or he'll say next week but it never happens. He stated that I should not compare myself to her and I wasn't. Its a fact that he had desire with her but not with me. He had desire for porn. Is it because I'm fat? (BTW-I lost 20lbs, now at 147:)) I wasn't THAT fat, yes I had gained some weight but why didn't he say something? Why did he always force me to eat that last peice when I didnt want it? Why did we have to do gourmet meals for his family? There's reasons behind it and I admite, I was depressed. I take responsibility for that. Uggg! I have in the past, said I wanted a divorce out of pure fustration. Never did he ever get the message, even when I was so blunt. I even asked him if he was with me only for my money as I make so much more than him. He said no. I do EVERYTHING plus work 2 jobs and I just never saw the effort on his part to work together in a marriage. He should of talked to me more, communicated with me more but he chose a different path. What hurts is that he continued to lie and after I confronted him, not once but twice, he continued on. He had to realize I would find out, I would keep digging, so why did he keep it going.

He also resents living under a microscope and I told him that he created the situation and until I can trust him, I'll continue to be on high alert. One evening he was at an event in a shopping mall where the OW works. Well, I went to make sure she didn't try to contact him. He resented that I was there stating I was spying on him. If I was spying on him, he wouldn't have known I was there! I wouldn't have gone up to him to make my presence known! He needs to understand where I am coming from and the devastation he caused me. He also is mad that I told his parents. He thinks we should of kept it between us and I thought, no way. He needs to own what he has done and face the consequences. I'm not protecting him so he can go on his happy merry way. He needs to be more intimate with me, respectful, and transparent. He needs to put an effort into the marriage as I've just about done everything I can. Some days are better but days like today where I see the text message and he didn't tell me makes me so upset. In fact, I want to email the employer and get her fired. Enough is enough!

I learned, after the initial shock, that there is nothing wrong with me. I did everything I could for our marriage and I am not going to try and compete with a 22 year old. I have a lot to offer and if he doesn't want to change then its over. I deserve to be happy and to be who I am. I deserve more that what I have. I went out and bought sexy lingerie only for it to go unnoticed. Heck, he hasn't even noticed that I lost weight!

Other factors that tipped me off-
-Using his iphone in the bathroom constantly
-Going outside to the front of the house to talk on the phone
-Pacing up and down the front walkway, standing far away from the house.
-Not answering my calls and when he did, not talking much
-Shaved pubic hairs in his tub
-New cologne in his medicine cabinet
-Not intimate at all
-Keeping his iphone glued to himself

Other things I found out-
He had been visiting porn sites. I think this was pre-affair and found one porn magazine and DVD in his desk. Threw those away. He claimed he grew up with porn (family was in video business) so it wasn't any big deal. Why? He liked looking at it, doesnt see anything wrong with it. Guess all those nights he slept in the spare bedroom wasn't always because of my snoring. Which I did have two surgeries to try and correct it but no luck:(

So I continue to take it one day at a time...

I am so sorry you are going through this, I am in plan B now and it gets easier with time.
Don't worry about the lies, they all lie. My WH was a very truthful person before, once he started "twisting the truth" he could not stop.
Just do not believe anything he says. You will know inside you, your instinct will tell you, you just want to surpress it and ignore it, but you know when he lies.
You are at the beginning of exhausting journey, where it will lead you nobody knows, just take care of yourself and prepare for unexpected.
Wish you lots of strenght and luck. Hope you have family and friends to support you( you'll certainly have support here)
I found lots of wonderful people who took me by hand step by step. Cannot imagine doing it all by myself without any guidance.

Thanks Czarne:) I'm trying to find out what Plan A is exactly and Plan B. All I know is that I'm doing my self improvement, for me and not for him. We have a counseling session today and I'm debating whether to point out ask him if he has heard from the other woman and whether he will lie.

I hate this snooping, I soooo hate it! Makes feel dirty and like crap.

I hated snooping too. It made me feel cheap...
I was always proud that I never check his phone, email etc. BIG mistake!

There is a great article on plan A/B here. Just go to the top red tabs, click on "articles" and it is there, fifth or sixth from the top,
xxx

The problem is that you are trying to do this on your own, without a plan.
MB is a PLAN to recover from affairs if you want marital recovery.
I think you should consider filing for legal separation and freezing marital assets and them offer recovery if he agrees to your conditions.

My daughters name is Helen also.
It's a beautiful name.
Helena was the mother of Constantine and she found the True Cross.

Here you go.

What are Plan A and Plan B?
Carrot and Stick of Plan A

Welcome to MB Helen67, sorry for the pain that brings you here.

In the Notable Posts Forum you will find many useful threads, particularly "Thread to help newly betrayed by Scotland".

If you want to recover your marriage I wouldn't recommend attending counselling together unless the counsellor is on board with the MB programme. Most counsellors have a high failure rate as they do not help create a romantic loving marriage. IC is fine to help you come to terms with the pain of infidelity. When your husband ends the A if he is remorseful, then counselling with the Harleys would give you a stronger chance of marital recovery.

I will try to link some threads for you ... failing that some other useful threads:

Exposure 101 by MelodyLane
The carrot & stick of Plan A by Pepperband
Notable Posts by Pepperband

Also the articles on the MB website are very useful.

Try and take care of yourself, you will find los of advice, support and encouragement on MB.

Helen. I think you have this OW confused with someone who respects and cares for you. She does not. She is having an affair with your WH and she cares nothing about you. There is no reason for her to take heed. She only cares about what "she" wants... and she wants your husband.



Exposure is your most powerful weapon here. Affairs thrive on secrecy and the light of day is the best way to kill the "fantasy" and bring reality into the picture. Who on OW side have you exposed to? I would try to find OW mother and ask her to help keep her daughter away from your husband. This will have much more impact on the OW moral compass than your texts to her.


I am sorry that you are going through this. Stick with us here.

Helen. You already know that he is capable of looking you in the eye and lying...so what would be the point of asking?


The only way you will know for sure is if you snoop. Your WH is acting like mine when he had taken the affair underground.

Has he quit his job yet?

Also this.
Thread to Help Newly Betrayed Spouses

You have to start seeing your WH as an addict. Conditions and consequences are the only thing they understand.

What are your conditions to keep YOU interested in the marriage? If he cannot commit to these, then he is not serious and you need to prepare for PLAN B. He will try to manipulate you only as long as you let him.



here is a start on your conditions:

commit to NC with OW for LIFE.
Handwritten NC letter given to you to approve and mail.
New job
complete transparency of his life
new cell phone number
no social networking except joint accounts
no opposite sex friendships
commitment to MB recovery program ( don't mention MB yet)

Hi everyone,

Yes, he has quit his job at my request. D day was 9/9/12 and he left on 10/20 after discussing it with me.

As far as my texting the 22 yr old- I'd love to be nasty and mean but its in writing. I need to protect myself. I texted her once I found out about the affair and carefully chose my words to circumvent any claims of sexual harassment. I'm not going to be victimized by any sexual harassment lawsuit. I have that covered.

I asked him about the most recent texts during counseling yesterday. He said one and I said, no it was twice! He stated he didn't say anything as he didn't want to cause problems. I told him that by NOT telling me is the problem, he has to be completely open with me. No more sweeping stuff under the carpet to avoid conflict.

I made it perfectly clear that if this EVER happens again, there is no second chance. I would chew him up and spit him out 10 times over. I told him how much he hurt me and he has started to read the books I recommended so he understands my hurt and betrayal.

I pressed him for more answers as to why he continued the affair, why he let it go so far, did he think of how it would affect us, was it worth risking everything. It seems like he cannot be friends and keep it professional or have boundaries, especially with employees. He needs to work on this weakness.

I'm not letting up as I told him that whatever caused him to betray me needs to be identified so it doesn't happen in the future. It must be addressed, no exception.

He admitted that he is glad we are talking and thinks this will bring us closer together, a stronger marriage. I even told the counselor that there is too much focus on what I nedd to do and my weight. You love someone for who they are, period. I told her that I was not sooooo overweight that it was an excuse. HE NEEDS TO CHANGE, HE DID THIS so why the focus on ME? She said I had displaced anger at her, well....I took control and dove into the issues needed to be discussed.

It was a good session and I think we've made progress but time will tell. I'm going to read plan A and B also to make sure I'm covering all the basis. He needs to make the effort too, not just me and I made that clear as well.

As far as exposure, I have my letter ready to send to her boss. However, he doesn't work there anymore so should I still send it? I can't find her mother, they are divorced. As far as changing his phone number, its his business number too. Also, if I change it or block it then I just make it go underground. This way I can see and check, I've already thought out the pros and cons of the phone number issue.

Thanks everyone for the advice:) Glad I found this site!

Hi Helen, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that brought you here. I wanted to address a few red flags I see here. The first is the above. The problem is not that he doesn't tell you, but that she is able to contact him. As long as that is the case, the affair is unlikely to end. Every time she contacts him is the equivalence of an alcoholic taking another drink. Every contact triggers his feelings and puts him back to day 1 of withdrawal

The solution is to cut off her means of contact entirely. He should exchange phones with you and/or change his phone #. She should not be able to call him.



The issue is that he has poor boundaries around women. He needs to be in an occupation where he doesn't have close proximity to women. He shouldn't have opposite sex friendships and he certainly shouldn't have personal conversations with any women.

[quotee]He admitted that he is glad we are talking and thinks this will bring us closer together, a stronger marriage. I even told the counselor that there is too much focus on what I nedd to do and my weight. You love someone for who they are, period.[/quote]

Well no you don't. That is not how romantic love is created. People fall in love when their most important emotional needs are met. They fall out of love when they are not. Many men have an emotional need of physical attraction in order to be in love. Your weight may be a key factor in the love he feels. What are his top 5 emotional needs?


But you just said that "You love someone for who they are, period." So why does have to change and you don't?


That's great! But I would move onto Surviving an Affair. You have to have the plan that is in that book in order to recover. And I will give you a word of warning about your typical counselor. They are destructive to marriages because they don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages. They have an 84% failure rate and have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. They have no plan to recover a marriage from an affair.

The path back to recovery after an affair is very narrow and most don't make it unless they follow this plan. I am going to post some links and articles in my next post, but you MUST get your hands on Dr Harley's book, Surviving an Affair. It is the bible for marriages that have been affected by affairs.


This strategy misses the point entirely. The danger is any contact from the OW. Every time she gets through it triggers him. If you don't eliminate that access, he WILL start up the affair again. I am just warning you. Him telling you about contact will not prevent that.

Start here: How to Survive Infidelity

Go here next: the Most Important Emotional Needs

Read this: Physical Attractiveness

Yes, they need to know that she is a loose cannon. She is the kind of idiot that causes sexual harassment lawsuits.

I just read that he is interested in a porn, which is a sure fire killer of your sex life. Men who look at porn usually masturbate too. Has he stopped that? *YOU* should be his exclusive source of sexual fulfillment.

Hi Melody,
Thanks for your feedback! I do need to change as well but I do beleive he needs to change more than I do. Specifically, he needs to communicate more, express his needs, think of my needs, and maintain boundaries with other women. I've tried talking to him over the years and he brushes it off, he needs to be open and honest, and communicate with me.

As far as loving someone for who they are is basically we all get older. Is he now going to be judgemental if I get a wrinkle?
Gain a few pounds as I age? Basically, is he going to be superficial? I can't control certain things whereas others I can. When he goes bald, do I stop loving him? He's gained weight, did I stop loving him? No, of course not.

I also understand the rationale behind the phone but I may be stopping THIS affair but what about possible future affairs? I mean, if he really wants to save our marriage, he should be able to do it without manipulating and setting up barriers. He has to want this as well, be straightforward with me, and make the right decisions on his own. Am I making any sense? Whats to stop him from getting a prepaid phone and keeping it in his car? I'd never know or at least it would be a very long time before I would find out. I agree that there should be no contact at all but do I really want him going the prepaid phone route?

I already started reading the book today, is it too late for Plan A? Do I still notify the employer of the workplace affair even though he is gone? Do I risk him getting mad at me for revealing it to the employer and what if the employer calls him?

Another thought that is in my head... I haven't read all the posts here but it seems like the BS is the one doing the work to save the marriage and then telling the cheating spouse what needs to be done. I wonder how many spouses who have cheated are putting forth the great effort to save their marriage as many of the BS's are? Just a random thought.

The counselor is a Dr with extensive experience and training. So far she's been right on the money even though I think sometimes she is moving forward too soon but then again, I need to speak up more. She has told him that he has problems with boundaries as well but its hard to get all the facts into a 1 hr session but we're getting there.

Again, thanks for the feedback and pointing out things I need to consider. It's truly helpful, thank you!

Yes, you BOTH need to change. But making demands on him is not going to do the trick. Sure, extraordinary precautions to avoid an affair are not negotiable, but you can't make demands. He is not going to communicate more in an environment where he is punished or demands are made. I want also point out that you "brushed off" his issues when he told you his concerns about the dogs in the bed and your weight. You can't demand a standard of him that you don't observe.

Your biggest problem is that your husband is no longer in love. That is what this program will correct. People who are in love don't have problems with "communication." And I don't think your counselor understands that or knows how to fix that.


It is not a matter of "judgement." It is a matter of being attractive enough for him to be in love with you. Do you want him to be in love with you?


It is disrespectful to label his needs as "superficial." Falling in love is an emotional reaction, not a choice. He DID fall out of love with you because you weren't meeting his needs. Do you want to change that?


He is not addicted to a "future affair," he is addicted to *THIS* OW. If you really want to save your marriage, you need to shut that phone down and establish BARRIERS. You are making the mistake of expecting him to show WILL POWER. He has already proven to you he has no will power when it comes to this OW.

Anyway, if *YOU* are serious about saving your marriage, you will insist he get rid of any means for the OW to contact him.


Tell the employer about the affair. They can keep an eye on the OW so she doesn't do this to someone else. Like I said, she is a loose cannon. It is not your job to hide their affair.


My concern is that she does not seem to understand how romantic love is created and this is the biggest problem in your marriage. When she said that his need for physical attraction was not legitimate, it is clear she does not GET IT. It is very important. What is her PLAN to save your marriage? Is she focusing on things like "communication?" If she is, then you are in trouble because you are not focusing on the main issue: romantic love.

Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has written 12 books on marriage and SPECIALIZES in this field. There is a very narrow path to recovery after an affair and if it is not followed, it is a disaster. If your counselor is not following the steps I posted in Requirements for Recovery, your marriage won't make it.

Let me put it another way, Helen. If your husband was a recovering alcoholic would you insist he leave the bar or would you say "he is just going drink anyway if he wants so he can stay in there?"

Sure the alcoholic can go buy booze if he wants any time, but the temptation will not be so attractive if it is not under his nose all the time. If it is right there, then the booze is top of mind all the time.

Will power did not stop him the past and it won't stop him in the future.

It is the same with the OW. If she able to call him, then she is TOP OF MIND and eventually temptation will collide with opportunity and the affair will be back on again.

The way to recovery is to cut off any and all contact with the affairees. If she is still contacting him, then they are still in contact AND YOUR MARRIAGE WILL NEVER RECOVER.

Step ONE is NO CONTACT. Until that step is taken, you can't go to the next step. Get rid of the phone. It is not worth it.