Are you in the US? Many people here have required their WS to have a poly, including me. You can find polygraph examiners anywhere in the US (if you are remote you might have to drive a little...). We had several in our area but we are in a metro area. It cost us $400.

You cannot recover a marriage based on lies and deceit. You can only recover with RH. I can tell by reading your posts that RH is very important to you too (top EN).

Make it a REQUIREMENT. In other words, if he wants to remain married to you, then he needs to be RH and do a poly to prove to you that he has been.

#1- Open and Honest
#2- Communication
#3- Physical Attractiveness

Discussed EN's- Wants more affection once a day, loose weight, stop harping are his three things.

My asking if he applied to unemployment yet and got his blood work done for his high blood pressure is deemed to be harping. I told him I am just concerned and will stop periodically asking. I also said had he communicated more with me then perhaps I wouldn't have to ask. No problem, I'll ask once and thats it.

More affection, not a problem as is loosing more weight. Those were his concerns. Says he still loves me and is still attracted to me just no desire due to the weight.

I asked more about the affair. He said I wasn't even a thought when they started it. He doesn't know why he didn't think of me or us or our marriage. It was something new, different and he didnt think he'd get caught.

He liked the thrill of the attention of a 22 yr old and STILL wonders what it would of been like to have had intercourse. He liked the flirting and what 45 yr old man wouldn't want to be with a 22 yr old. He seems to want to call her one last time to tell her not to text anymore, I said no. "It would be better for her and us so you dont expend any more energy on this". I said he can never talk to her again, ever. She texts/calls- let me know and I will handle it.

Blocking the number- dont want to spend the money on it. I said our marriage is worth it- we are still discussing. Changing the number- no because she'll get it off his truck or trailer, he's got a valid point.

He talked about going back to the retail store, I said that can't happen. Its a closed chapter in our life and brought us much pain. I expressed that I don't even want anyone from the store calling, its time to move on and its possible she might be at the other end of the phone. No contact is my expectation. He seems to agree.

Talked about boundaries and he agrees that he needs to work on that issue. He tried to stop the flirting but the OW kept it up and he kept caving in.

He says he is willing to work on meeting my EN's but it will be alot of work. If things aren't going to work out, then he doesnt want to put the effort into it. He asked when is this all over? In other words, 3 yrs down the road is this going to brought up again and I said it shouldn't (am i right?).

He thinks he's depressed as well as he don't care about much.

We discussed what we need to do and are working on a plan. The EN questionaire was EXCELLENT! Talked for over 3 hrs!

You really need to stop making these 'requests' of him. This verbiage that you used is like using a wet noodle to hammer in a nail, when what you really need is a hammer. How about...'HXLL no you are not going to call her. If you want to stay married to me and recover this marriage, you will send her a NC letter that you write and I approve and we mail together, and that will be the LAST contact you ever have with her, ever again.' (hammer.)

If you block the number she will not text or call, therefore you will not have to 'handle it.' Too expensive to block a number? Good grief it is like a slap in the face to have your WH betray you, and then tell you that the menial cost of this one small gesture that might help heal you and make you feel safe again is too much money. I hope you see that.


Do not be 'discussing' this. NC and doing what needs to be done to create and maintain NC is not negotiable.


Better. More hammerlike.


Have you worked on a list of EP's to use in creating those boundaries? You need to have this in writing.


When he tells you everything, and that is confirmed with a poly. When he agrees to a recovery program of your choosing (MB), agrees to follow the EP's you have put in place to protect your marriage from future affairs. When you work together to create a better marriage than you have ever had. Well...then it is not over but you do not discuss the A anymore. This is not something that you can just 'get over' and it sounds like thats what he wants you to do.

I'm going to ask for his cell phone account login information and the OW's number as well as her friends will be blocked. I agree that the cost is worth it and it has to be done. No exceptions, non negotiable.

I'll write a NC letter and we'll both send it. Any samples on the site? I did a search and nothing came up.

I told him he can't have opposite sex friendships due to his inability to respect boundaries and to prevent this from happening again. We also need to be completely open and honest with each other- no more "avoiding conflict" or "sweeping things under the rug". We deal with it together and move on, its necessary and he agrees. I even said I'd want him to find a job that is more working with males than females due to his boundary issues and no retail job at all.

I was truthful when he asked if this will be thrown up in his face years down the road. I said that I'll never forget it,it will always be in the back of my mind. It shouldn't be thrown up in his face down the road once we are past it, I don't beleive that is a good thing and we need to move forward. If he starts displaying the same behaviors it may trigger me to ask him questions but these would be questions, not accusations. Again, open and honest is what is needed.

It bothers me that he just had the A without even thinking of me, it really does. The A only lasted 3 months but it kept on progressing and he developed certain feelings for her but didn't love her or want a relationship, so he says.

I forget, have you ever done an exposure? Not just to his/her work but to your/his/her family, friends, FB friends, etc. If you do not know how to do this MelodyLane has a link in her sig. This is important to bring his affair out into the light and make him accountable, which will help kill the affair. It will also get you much needed RL support for what you are going through.

Good job on the blocking, blocking OW's friends is good too. As far as his login info, you should have access to ALL of his accounts from now on, complete transparency (and vice versa).

Yes there are samples on this site of NC letters. I am a terrible librarian and I have no idea how to link although every time I post that I think to myself that I should learn... I'll see what I can find unless Brainhurts is out there and can link it for me...

Regarding the RH, have you brought up a poly? I do not think you have the full details of this A. Starting out with lies regarding the A will NOT allow you to heal. We have a poster on here who has been in recovery since April and just this week learned new details. Every time you hear new details that you were deceived about it is like a DDay all over again. You can not heal like that, and your marriage is based on lies. There is only one way to know if what your WH is telling you is truth or lies at this point, since he has been majorly gaslighting you (Brainy please post the gaslighting link too!), and that is to do a poly.

Dr Harley does not believe in rehashing the affair, negative history, etc. The purpose of the MB program is to move forward and have a marriage that is better than you have ever had. But when it comes to infidelity, there are things that need to take place for that to happen. One is RH regarding the A, and answering all the questions that you have. I would put money on the fact that you are still being deceived and gaslighted. You cannot recover this way.

My H also says that he didn't even 'remember he was married.' It is VERY hurtful to hear this. Wayward brains get addicted to the drug of the A and do not think normally. A wayward can become a totally different person than you thought you knew.

Here you go.

No contact Letter Samples


Coping with Infidelity The End Part 2


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Thank you both:) I'll present it to him today and I'll mail it.

One question- He made a comment about every time we talk about the A it makes him think of the A as in the thrill, excitement, what would have been like etc. Is he still in withdrawal or denial of his true feelings? Is this normal? I know he'd rather forget it happened but it did happen.

Have you had all your questions about the affair answered? If so then Dr. Harley says to never bring up the affair again.

I'm just really concerned, for his lack of trying to close all avenues for her to contact him. His excuses are weak and setting you up for a false recovery.

False recoveries can be more painful then original DDays. Please read.
False Recovery

This is called the FOG.

Hopefully the fog will lift, and he will see that he has betrayed and devastated the woman he said his vows to. Any WS who has true remorse begins to loathe the idea of the A and the AP, because it represents to them the fact that they behaved in such a way as to bring deep pain to someone they love. It makes them feel like they are dirt, like a dirty scumbag. It makes them feel guilt and saddness, it does NOT make them feel excitement. I speak from experience here.

That might not happen today or tomorrow, the level of remorse a BS accepts seems to be contingent on the BS, but many women need to see that 'hat in hand' level of remorse before they can truly recover.

Are you continuing to snoop? What methods do you have in place? I am highly concerned he is still in contact with her. Many WS's when caught just go deeper underground. Secret phones, etc. Make sure you do not let your guard down, he sounds very foggy still.

Brainhurts can you also link the gaslighting thread, I think her WH is majorly gaslighting her. Thanks!

Yes here it is.

Please explain Gaslighting

I have a keylogger installed and check his phone. Although, I am just waiting for the opportunity to check his truck for a second phone. Just haven't had the chance.

I'm still on high alert, make no mistake but after last night it will become more apparent if he is truly willing to change. Actions speak louder than words. Sending the NC letter today and giving up passwords will also be telling.

As far as the NC letter, we dont have her home address. What are your thoughts on me hand delivering it to her work and at the same time expose the A to her new boss? Good idea? Bad idea?

As far as more exposure..should I tell all friends of the family? When he found out I told his parents he was upset and said it should of been kept between us. What happens between us is our private issues and we shouldnt go outside the relationship. Pre MB- I did it so he'd have to face people and own up to what he did- not live under a facade.

HE writes the no contact letter and you approve it.

EXPOSE to everyone that you feel can help influence him to work on the marriage.

Get a polygraph. So you can put this to rest once and for all. If he resists, it's a very bad sign that he is lying and hiding things from you and you're heading into a false recovery.

You need to let him know what it will take for you to stay married to him. Give him a list of requirements. These requirements are NON NEGOTIABLE.

I did the NC letter from the book, I'll have him write it. Glad I asked!! Once again, thank you!

I would say no to hand delivering the letter from work. If you do that it appears to come from you and not him. Although you want to be the one to approve the letter and see to it that it gets mailed, all she knows is that she got a letter from him in his handwriting saying he does not want any further contact with her.

You sound like a good sleuther, I'm sure you can find a way to get her home address

Yes tell all friends and family. He is upset you told his parents because affairs thrive in secrecy. Once the affair is exposed, now it is just a dirty immoral act, takes away that thrill and fantasy and makes it more real. Now instead of the cool sexy guy who some 22 yr old wants, he is just a low life cheater who is cheating on his wife. AND, makes him more accountable. It is much more difficult to be deceitful and manipulative when everyone arounds you knows that you are.

As far as what happens between you is your private issues and you shouldn't go outside the relationship....um....HE is the one who went outside the relationship and brought in ANOTHER WOMAN. Yet he thinks he has the right to tell you that telling people about it is wrong???

Besides, he seems to think it was no big thing. He seems to think it was sexy and cool and that it makes him look like the cool guy to be with a 22 yr old. Heck if that's the case, why wouldn't he want you to tell the world how cool he is!

Yes have him write it in his handwriting. Do not let him add any mumbo jumbo about how he doesn't like to hurt her or will always remember their time together, some waywards try that kinda thing...

Just looking at the thread for NC letters. What if he doesnt start or state anywhere in it how he hurt me or it was wrong to have the A, do I tell him to put it in? Do I suggest it or wait and see what he writes?

I want to do this right the first time:)

He is in the fog, so honestly right now he might not care that it hurt you or was wrong. He's thinking of him right now--self preservation. Sorry, but that is the truth.

When I wrote my NC letter, my BH sat down with me and basically dictated it. I added a few things. I gave my BH the letter so he could reread it and put it in the envelope and deliver it.

Thanks FF! I'm beginning to understand more, especially after reading the links posted by unwritten and brainhurts.

All phone numbers the OW may call from are now blocked. He gave me no problems when asked for the online account information for the cell phone.