Ok, so a little background--I came here to fix my husband. Heh. Found out, over two days of reading, that I'm pretty much the problem. I've ordered my book and workbook (hubby not interested in joining in, but I want to work on me.) In the meantime, I've started doing things better--not blaming, not defending myself, just listening, making sure he feels heard. Things are better. Not perfect, or I wouldn't be here. Baby steps.

On to my question. For years, I've been on an anti-depressant that dulled my sex drive. Add to that the little resentments that just pile up and pile up--and we went from having a pretty decent sex life, to really none at all. Recently, I started on Wellbutrin, and the difference is really amazing--we were doing MUCH better in that department. We had some really bad blowouts lately, the last one ending with a rude gesture and some REALLY rude comments on my part. That's when I came here--something had to change. I started implementing little changes, and guess who's sex drive disappeared? Yep, his. It's so frustrating! He said he feels "guarded." I think he's off-balance by the lack of conflict on my part, and not sure where this is going. He still lashes out, but I just let him, without defending or justifying anything I've done or said. When he stops, I simply mirror back to him what he said so he feels that I have a grasp on what he is feeling, and apologize that he feels (controlled, boxed in, whatever). Maybe he doesn't trust that things are changing? Anyway, my big question--is this normal??? Have others had this experience?

Hi Hehurtstoo, welcome to Marriage Builders. Are you married? If so, how long married? Any children?

Do you have the book Lovebusters and His Needs, Her Needs? I would start by learning the basic concepts of this program and then selling it to him. You can get a great understanding FAST if you read those books AND listen to the radio show every day. It is in your husband's benefit to have a happy, romantic marriage and if you show him how he stands to benefit, he will likely get on board. The biggest gaps I see in your situation are a) lovebusters [angry outbursts especially] and b) probably a lack of undivided attention time.

I would take a more comprehensive approach and focus on selling him on the entire program. You won't get too far if you focus on self improvement and just do a little here and a little there. It is not a "baby steps" program, in other words. It is an all or nothing program that is of little effect unless it is done in its entirety.

Does your husband appreciate your repeating back to him what he just said? Personally, I find that practice infuriating at worst and patronizing at best. I have never seen that this is a very effective practice and most especially if your spouse is lashing out at you. If my spouse lashes out at me, I am not going to be repeating anything except how very upset I am at his lovebuster! I would discourage bad behavior if you want him to stop it.

How much undivided attention time do you get together each week? If you would, read this article and then come back and discuss: Policy of Undivided Attention

How much UA time are you getting? Dr Harley suggests 20-25 hrs of Undivided Attention meeting the four most intimate needs to create romantic love, and 15 hrs to maintain romantic love.

Also, have you read about the stages of marriage? I would say this is normal, if you have engaged in many lovebusters over the course of your relationship and suddenly are no longer doing so, that he might wonder what the heck is going on and respond with some withdrawal. Just keep on practicing the new positive behaviors so he can see that they are here to stay.

Finally, it sounds like he has gone from a high need for SF to a low need for it. Have you confirmed that there is not an affair going on?

Another thing to look into porn use. Porn use can have the same effect.

Another must read that does a good job of summarizing the Marriage Builders plan: How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

Thanks for the replies.

Yes, married. 12 years together, 9 married. 5 kids between the two of us--blended family, which is the most difficult thing we have ever done. "His" are both grown, son out and daughter living with us. "Mine" is 14, living with us. "Ours" are 8 and 4.

He actually does seem to appreciate that I "get it." I don't parrot back what he has said; that would be annoying. I apologize and make sure to state why I am apologizing.

The biggest obstacle right now is that he feels controlled. That has been a common theme in our fights for the duration. I've never "knowingly" set out to control him (if I'm being completely honest, maybe that's a lie.) I have realized that I am very critical--my mother is too, and I have always said, "I will NEVER be like her!" So instead of overtly, loudly criticizing people, I will make jokes and comments that make him feel as though I am unhappy with his choices. He ignores and ignores and stuffs it down until he explodes. All this to say, trying to force him to "get on board" right now is a no-go. He will feel as though I am trying to control him. I think, as time goes by, he will be more comfortable with finding out what all this is about and it will be HIS idea to participate. Right now, I am all in, and working hard to let him know he can trust me to LISTEN to him, and NOT judge him by making comments/jokes.

My book and workbook are on the way. I will order him a book if and when he is ready.

A physical affair--definitely not. He works from home, so we are in contact all day (I work at night and am home during the day.)
An emotional affair may be a possibility. I'm hoping against hope that I am wrong. I asked, he told me no. And he works in the technology field, so key loggers and whatnot are not going to work. In fact, he probably has a key logger program on me. I don't care, because I'm not doing anything wrong.

Porn, I've never really been for or against it. It's a non-issue. Our sex life was great UNTIL I shifted my behavior this week, which makes me believe it has to be related. It's almost like he wanted it BAD when he had to chase me, or when there was conflict (make up sex) but now that he can have it, eh, he can take it or leave it. <--This, by the way, is an example of the assumptions I make, without giving him the grace of examining it from his side or giving him the dignity of explaining it to me.

So when I asked him, he said he feels guarded, and that I haven't done anything to turn him away, and that if I initiated he would not reject me. And that there is no one else.

Another issue--he doesn't sleep. He was born with aortic stenosis, has had 3 open heart surgeries, and the last one was pretty traumatic--heart stopped after he was closed up and they had to reopen and defribrillate. Long story short, he wants to pack as much into a day as he can. He works long hours, and when he is done he likes to relax and do his thing. I go to work at 1am, so I'm in bed by 7 every night. Our schedules are incompatible with spending 20 hours a week together. We usually fit in date nights weekly, and are going away this Sunday night together, kid-free. We also "hang out" together, watching movies and whatnot, on the weekends. I will need to read up on the definition of "undivided attention" to be sure, but I'm thinking that the answer to your question is no, we do not spend 20-25 hours a week together, and that will not change anytime soon, unfortunately. I'm hoping I can still make this work without that component.

UA time is one of the cornerstone concepts of the MB program. You will NOT be able to create an intimate marriage that is better than it has ever been without UA time.

Many people, including myself, fought the idea of UA time. How can a couple with jobs and children and commitments EVER wrangle up 15-25hrs a week??? I fought it, thought it would never work, but just to see what would happen I spent a couple weeks implementing it. It is like an overnight change to the relationship. Now I will fight tooth and nail to get it.

How do you fall in love? By not spending time together, not doing intimate things together, not engaging with each other??? Of course not. You fall in love by doing those things. When you are dating you will completely rearrange your life to see the guy you are smitten with. But somehow when he becomes the man you exchanged vows with, everything else seems like it is so much more important.

UA time is not just 'time,' it is Undivided Attention time. Spent filling the 4 most intimate emotional needs: Recreational Companionship, Affection, Sexual Fulfillment, and Intimate Conversation. You can not fill these needs while playing with your kids, or watching a movie.

If your schedules are incompatible with proper UA time, your schedules are incompatible with having an intimate, loving marriage. The answer is to change your schedules. Change your job if you have to, it does not sound like your current situation will do anything but further destroy your already delicate marriage.

Also, Dr Harley has some good articles on porn use and how it is destructive to marriages.

If you have just made this changes THIS WEEK, I think it is premature to expect a positive response from your spouse. Give it some time, if he has been experiencing lovebusters for the last 9 yrs it is going to take more than a week for him to feel comfortable that this is the 'new you.'

Here.
The Critical Importance of Undivided Attention

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I have read LOTS, both on the site and on the forums, but somehow didn't come across those particular articles. I am anxious to get the book, so I have some solid reference that I can mark and refer back to.

Thanks, everyone.

One more question: Is there a certain order I should read the books in? Love Busters or His Needs Her Needs first? Concurrently? Does it matter?

This is why I suggested you learn the program and SELL it to him. Selling is *NOT* controlling. People buy things when there is a perceived benefit. What could he stand to gain from this program? What do you do that makes him unhappy? It sounds to me like you criticize alot. What could you do to make him happy? This program advocates complaining, but not criticizing. What else would he like out of his marriage? Would he like to be madly in love again? Well, that is what the program achieves.

You need to find out what would make him happy and then sell it to him on that basis. You can start by asking him to take this survey: Marital Problem Analysis Questionnaire

And I think that is a great start to stop judging him and making snide jokes and comments.


you are not spending the nights together?


An EA is an affair. And if he is having an affair, asking him will get you nowhere. We have lots of cases where we have placed keyloggers on the computers of IT people. They don't find them.

WE have a very recent case here where the husband worked from home and supposedly could account for every minute. Turns out he has been having an affair for years and just left his wife for the OW.


But porn *IS* an issue in marriage. Does he use porn?


This is where I would focus all of your attention because this program does not work without this step. It takes 15 hours per week to SUSTAIN the romantic love and 20-25 to CREATE. When Dr Harley was in active practice he would refuse to take on any client who would not commit to this because his "program does not work without this step."

In your case, I would start with Lovebusters. The reason is because I think you might be making lovebusters that you are not aware of. I know I sure did! Lovebusters will erode any of your efforts to make lovebank deposits, so I would focus on stopping them first.

When you get the workbook, go to the back and tear out the Undivided Attention worksheet and make copies. Make a plan to get him on board with spending UA time with you. Doing this will make the GREATEST IMPACT in the shortest time on your marriage. If you can't do this step, all the rest will not amount to much.

Read as much as you can about the concept of undivided attention so you can sell this to your husband.

Another way to sell him this program is to explain that "controlling" behavior is a BIG NO NO in Marriage Builders. That might be one way to pique his interest. "I know that my controlling behavior has bothered you terribly over the years. I have a program that serves to eliminate all of that......"

The way I sold my husband was to tell him about the policy of joint agreement. My biggest lovebuster was/is independent behavior and it drove him CRAZY. When he objected, I accused him of being "controlling." Anyway, with this program I have pretty much eliminated all of my IB and the benefit to him was ENORMOUS. My H now tells me right up front when I am lovebusting him, and vice versa.

Another way to help your sales story is to listen to the radio show every day and find a radio clip that you think may appeal to him. For example, if he doesn't like being controlled or doesn't like criticism, then find a radio clip that addresses that. Men really like Dr Harley's logical approach to marriage. [versus your typical psychobabble]

Nights together--well. It's complicated. We are together until I leave--then he gets up at 4 and goes out to do a paper route. He's done at 6am, I'm home then or by 9am. In between, I'm in and out--I work in the field, so can pop by home any time. BTW, I work at the newspaper he delivers. So, no physical affair.

There was an incident where he "friended" an ex on facebook. I had done the same thing years ago and he flipped out--I promptly "unfriended" him. Then, a couple weeks ago, I find out he friended this chickie and I flipped. NOT because I cared--I can see everything they post. But because it was unfair. Well, I didn't care then, but I sure care now that there's a problem in the bedroom. They are no longer facebook friends, but what if he is talking to her on some other medium and I don't know? But anyway, it's only been a week, and I am willing to see if he comes around. If he doesn't, I will definitely have to take bigger steps to discover if there is something going on. My main issue was that I wanted to know if this COULD be normal, or if I needed to be afraid that something else was going on.

I will definitely try to sell him on this. I just have to do some thinking on how to use finesse and NOT come across as "nagging" or controlling. How to make it about having a better marriage, and NOT about changing him.

And you asked about porn--he doesn't "use" it. Sometimes we used to watch it together, then it started to kind of creep me out. So we stopped. He knows it bothers me if he watches without me around, so he tells me if he "comes across" it or something. For example, if one of his guy friends sends him a link and he unknowingly clicks on it. I really believe if he was watching it, he wouldn't hide it. He's just that kind of person. He would probably want me to see it too, lol.

Even with you around, porn is very bad on marriages and Dr Harley recommends no porn use AT ALL. I can usually tell if a marriage is poisoned by porn.

And secondly, I would get a keylogger on his computer and see what he is doing. That will help you rule out an affair. A good one is eblaster by spectorsoft because it is virtually undetectable and will email you the reports. it is at spectorsoft.com

Another thing that stands out is that you don't sleep together at the same time. This creates a lack of intimacy in marriage that drives a wedge between the couple. I would think of ways you can better coordinate your schedules so you are going to bed at the same time and going to work at the same time. That is an essential component of an integrated lifestyle.