So my wayward decided that we can't get along and wants a divorce, but then didn't take the time to start the divorce process. I knew that she would eventually find a lawyer and sue me to pay for it so I got my own lawyer and filled out the disillusion paperwork with the lawyers help and gave it to her.

My thinking was that it was the least expensive way out with the least amount of stress/time, and if she filed it then she obviously doesn't want to work on our marriage.

Looking back I see how I enabled her just as I always have and took responsibility for her decisions/actions, but on the flip side, I didn't trust her with getting a fair settlement, and I didn't want a bunch of lawyers battling it out.

A few days later she filed and now we are waiting for the 30 day cool off period then we get a hearing.

Now I find myself very angry with her (which surprised me because I thought I was past the anger stage.) She has poor boundaries with men and betrayed me in one way or another with 3 different guys, so I know that the divorce is the best solution for me, but I'm ticked at what she has put me and our children through, turned the blame on me, then left me with most of the fiscal and family responsibility.

I guess I'm just angry at the injustice and that my marriage failed even though I did everything I could. At this point I have stopped talking to her completely which is for the best. She has a way of sucking me into permanent limbo.

I'm already feeling a little better, perhaps I just needed to vent a little and write out why ill be better off even though a divorce, and recognize that life isn't fair and work on having a better attitude.

I told you I didn't think I could handle it. DS2 seems so indifferent to my existence. Happier that I'm not around to interfere with his life. And I do blame you for the influence you put in his mind and in his heart, with or without intentions. Please don't have him call me if he doesn't want to. It just makes me a wreck. You took my whole life away from me when you criticized my love for my children.

I was hoping to cheer you up. I think it's really sad that you are hurt by his indifference towards you, but then say that you want to stay out of his life. Don't you see that your actions are seen as your indifference towards him? Also, why blame me? You have the power to turn this around by not filing, going to counseling, working together for solutions, stop blaming, and being accountable. I can see why you would think I took your whole life away, and honestly I feel the same way, but that doesn't mean that our family needs to split up and suffer through a divorce, which our children view as taking their lives away. I'm very sorry your having a hard time and it really hurts to see you, my bride, my lover, my wife, my best friend, the mother of my children, my partner, my everything hurting so much. I wish that we can sort through this, but blaming, withdrawal, and victimizing yourself isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

You didn't hear me. You must know this is not what I want. But you have offered to me a life of open criticisms which is a life I cannot accept. I know you were trying to cheer me up. But it didn't work, and I told you why. I've been crying nonstop for the past 4 hours, ak1. And for some reason you still think you need to point your finger at me? You are not a safe person for me. And that kills me because there's nothing I would rather do that trust you and be held by you.
And Wednesday, when I brought DS1 over... Perhaps you meant to invite me in. Or maybe you were being just polite enough to put on a show for the kids. I don't know. But "you don't have to go" is a lot different than an invitation to stay.

STBXW, I'm sorry you are so sad. It breaks my heart that you have been crying. I would also like to hold you and care for you. I know it's hard right now. I know that everything I say feels like criticism right now and that it hurts. Please know my heart isn't to hurt or attack you but to find solutions to our problems. Perhaps the issue is that I say things in a blaming way, or maybe you are really sensitive to criticism, I'm really not sure, but I do know that last night felt like a continuation of our same old dynamic. From my perspective it seemed like you blamed and/or made me responsible for your relationship with DS2 (and many other issues) while you felt like the martyr/victim. Please think about this. Is that true? Were you shifting the responsibility onto me? Were you taking the responsibility off of you and feeling like the victim? If so then please know that it needs to be different. If not, then please know that it feels that way to me. I want to meet your needs and be your dear husband that you trust and love. I want things to be different, but I don't think it's possible if you blame or justify why you took legal action to terminate our marriage and ultimately split up our family. I am still willing to reconcile and do everything I can to have a tender, caring, loving, satisfying marriage, but in order for that to happen I need a few things. The blaming must stop, the double standard (throwing blame at me while at the same time not being able to accept criticism) must stop, and we need to get help, live together, spend time together, enjoy each other, and put our relationship first over anything else that would rob us from succeeding. I would like to end this disaster and move on together, but without a plan and some help I don't think it's possible.

Yes, this is our dynamic. I point out a problem and you return with a very polite turn around that does not deal with the issue I brought up. Not helpful. Epic fail, again

I was replying to what you wrote last night. And trying to offer a solution. Your right, I could have invited you you to stay instead of telling you that you don't have to go.

Thank you for the acknowledgement. Your reply makes sense. However, it seems unrealistic to me since I do not see a change from you. I hear blame and accusation that is not warranted. And, while you would have a case for me doing the same to you, I do not think that the few things I have found fault with you are unjustifiable. I am not in a position to consider reconciliation because I think it would not be a union of respect/teamwork that I desire. You have valid, workable requests, but the are not tangible so long as I cannot voice a concern and have it heard and responded to appropriately. #1 issue for me is how your words have torn me down, often witnessed by our children, and not seen for what it was and as damaging as it was. As reasonable as your 'solutions' are, you do not have a platform to stand on until considerable and sustained reform is done that begins with you. Until then, just hear me when I tell you I cannot handle DS2 being perfectly happy to have nothing to do with me. It cuts me to the core. And I blame you. So don't point your blaming finger back at me and tell me that I'm not doing enough. That doesn't help! I cannot see what i can do. If you see something that I am able to do, let me know.
And quit telling me I'm victimizing myself. It makes you sound like a jerk.

If I blame you for something, please take a good look at it before you fling it back.

I'm sitting on the edge of the bed, at an absolute loss for words...

How could I possibly reconcile our history? From the beginning it was evident that there were parts of me which you viewed as unacceptable, and yet I allowed myself to be seduced by the idea that marriage would somehow make myself more endearing to you. Youth, wasted on the young, eh? We did not know the consequences of even the most mundane decision, did we? And yet we gambled our futures on the fallacy that being looked after by another would be our sure footing. How silly of us. Neither of us was solid enough to offer steadfast love to the other. Well, life has taught us. Our future is safe with no one but ourselves, and even then...

But could we even offer it now? A love that does not fail?
I think no. That kind of sacred love is only born of respect, which is something we cultivated very little of. Something that is within that drives one to seek for the good of another and the two together. I am battered and I am bruised by the history that trampled my thoughts and desires and efforts. And I am supposed to believe now that I was not a victim? No. There is nothing wrong with admitting what really happened to me. And what really happened to you. We were each victims of the selfishness and pride of the one who claimed to love us. And here we are. More educated, perhaps. And none the wiser. Again trying to create for ourself the existence we each want by relying on another person. Each of us trying to make sense of the erroneous logic that it is possible to have someone love us more than we are capable of loving. I cannot. I cannot love another more than I love myself. More than I am concerned about my own boundaries or my own future. And I suppose that this is what it's really all about: whether two people can join together to make something that is better for each of them than what he or she would be able to achieve for themselves alone. So the question is of mutuality. Can you expect a better future for yourself by a union? Could I? It would only be the 'yes' to both questions that should yield a marriage, or any relationship. It's not all benevolence as I had dumbly thought it should be. I had thought that if I could trust in your benevolence toward me, then I could trust your love for me. Maybe I ought not to have asked for benevolence, but a treatise that would serve us both equally.

Most of me thinks 'none of this matters!'. And part of me whispers, 'ak1 does.'

And maybe I think we could still strike a deal. You give me this, I give you that... And we would be happy. But then each of us would have to know what we want, and what we don't want.

What I want sounds simple to me. It's not expensive outfits, fancy restaurants, or even proclamations of ardor. What I want is appreciation and understanding...

What do you need to give me the appreciation and understanding that I need?

What I don't want:
The memories. I'm sickened my the loss of joy that I have for the good memories and the tumult of the bad ones. I'm absolutely tormented. And what could help? What I think? Honest, good memories. Could you give me those? Without blame over withdrawing, and without blame about not taking care of all of your concerns...

I think it is ruined. But I wish, above all, to be wrong.

I know you are having a hard time, we all are. I also wish that we weren't in this awful place and that our history wasn't so full of failures, mistrust, and pain.

In answers to your questions: will I have a better future with a union? I think so, not because someone is able to care for me better than myself, but because a marriage partnership that offers and gives love, respect, and kindness is a very special relationship that creates a whole new level of intimacy, bondedness, and teamwork that is the foundation for a family, which extends the blessings and joys to little ones who largely depend on the relationship.

What do I need to give you the appreciation and understanding you need? Less of the things that kill my trust and affection for you such as blaming, transferring responsibility, double standards, and more of the things that grow my affection for you such as owning your own mistakes, honesty, consideration, gentleness, connectedness, and respect.

As badly as I want these things, I don't think it's possible on the road we are on. A new direction is needed, and the old ways must be left behind.

I think that the changes needed go well beyond striking a deal as that feels like more pretending to me, which will never result in true intimacy which is the only thing that will make the past fade.

As long as we are in this cycle then I agree it's hopeless. Waiting on me to change will never work as that is again shifting the responsibility on to me. You must change yourself and address your own issues regardless, otherwise you are depending on someone else for your happiness or self improvement which is not right. No relationship can withstand that pressure, least of all ours.

Please stop blaming me and start focusing on what you can do to better yourself and your relationships, that is the only thing you can control and ultimately the only thing that will help.

I'm going to try and sleep now, I hope you are resting well and that you feel better tomorrow.

What I was trying to say is that when I make a considerable effort to change a past issue, then it would help if you encouraged and thanked instead of blaming. The example I used was your relationship with POSOM. If your not talking to him then it wouldn't help to keep blaming you. Even in a situation like foster daughter, I'm upset about it, but blaming doesn't do anything to help. So if you continue to blame me, but freak out when I don't invite you in the right way then it feels very much one sided. I get a lot of criticism from you, but giving any back makes you very upset. It feels like a double standard. We can't be in a relationship when you make me 15 minutes late for church, and I don't say anything out of concern that you will get nasty with me, then you turn around and get very critical over how I word something. What I really want from you regardless of what happens is no more blaming, not giving out more criticism then you are willing to take, and being polite and respectful even when you are upset.

Too many issues to deal with all right now, but...

I hear about your effort (from you), but it isn't very tangible to me since I can't see it. I'm not at all trying to diminish what you are doing, but I can understand how it would feel that way. Especially when DS2 is having a hard time and I can't see that or help with that either. At the same time, I don't agree that it's a past issue. It's been an ongoing issue. One that I can't see an end to. Comments like 'I don't feel safe with my mom' is a more recent example, and I don't remember hearing from you that you understand how devastating that was. I don't even know if you see, from my perspective, what it was that you did to create DS2's attitude problems toward me. Are there other confounding issues? Yes, but it's easier to deal with one firstly, instead of throwing them all in the ring.

Maybe I should have said, 'thanks for having the kids call me when I already said its not a good idea. I know you were trying to do a good thing.'
I foolishly chose to tell you the truth. I guess I had hoped for solace. I got criticism shoved back at me.
What I really wanted was an apology for how I felt you persuaded him against me. I still want that. Otherwise, I don't think you even see the problem.

This is very frustrating you just did to me what you get so upset about. I came to you with a few issues: blaming, double standards, and being polite and respectful when you are upset. Your reply didn't address any of those things, instead you told me why things are still an issue so that your blaming was justified.

I know that turning things around is super frustrating, but it's 100x more frustrating when you get on my case about it then do it right back.

I've been trying to tell you this for a long time, but somehow it never gets dealt with. I need you to stop doing to me what you are so critical to me about because its absolutely maddening.

Telling the truth is never foolish.
I'm very sorry for taking down to you in front of the kids. I know it affected how they view you. I've been working very hard to address that. If you haven't noticed then I need to do more, and I will.

All of what I just wrote was in response to your first sentence to me. If you can't see that I am trying to resolve the issue, I don't know what to do. But you finally said what I needed to hear. Thank you.
I know there was more to respond to, but I was putting foster dauther to bed and didn't have time to write more. Now I'm upset that you kind of lashed out at me. Just give me some slack, please.

STBXW, I don't wish you harm or to make things worse, however I don't understand why you being upset prevents you from addressing the issues I brought up. I've been trying to explain as respectfully as I can the problems I have with one-sidedness, double standards, and disrespect, and even in that the issue continues. If you are upset you won't even acknowledge the issues, but I'm expected to change while you blame me, or treat you differently while you are cheating on me. Please stop this. Listen to what I am saying and deal with it even if you are upset. Please stop dishing out criticism and disrespect regardless of what I do. Please treat me the way that you want me to treat you. Please stop waiting for me to change and focus on changing yourself. Please don't criticize me over how I word things, especially when you say very rude things to me like you did today with the socks. Please hear these things as a request to change, not put downs.

Dammit, ak1. Why is it so hard for you to be considerate of me? Do I need to do everything on your schedule? I can't even have a conversation with my roommate without you jumping down my throat that I'm not responding soon enough. Sheesh! Now I'm suddenly feeling all googly over you.

Sorry it came off like that, I wasn't being impatient about your response, it sounded like you were upset so you were just going to blow off the issues. Anyway take as much time as you need, but please do consider what I have been saying.

I want so much to be the kind, giving woman I envision myself to be. But I cannot continue to accept this pattern. I know we each need to be in a place to hear and listen more than seek for our own good. I'm trying to hear and listen. And I am hearing and listening and responding appropriately. But it doesn't seem like you have moved to the place where you can hear and listen to who I am and what I am speaking. I can't keep talking if I am not heard.
What I was trying to say is

I love you.

And I love myself, too.

NI know you are having a hard time, we all are. I also wish that we weren't in this awful place and that our history wasn't so full of failures, mistrust, and pain.

What do I need to give you the appreciation and understanding you need? Less of the things that kill my trust and affection for you such as blaming, transferring responsibility, double standards, and more of the things that grow my affection for you such as owning your own mistakes, honesty, consideration, gentleness, connectedness, and respect.

Cricisms, disrespectful judgements.

[quote]As badly as I want these things, I don't think it's possible on the road we are on. A new direction is needed, and the old ways must be left behind.

I think that the changes needed go well beyond striking a deal as that feels like more pretending to me, which will never result in true intimacy which is the only thing that will make the past fade.

As long as we are in this cycle then I agree it's hopeless. Waiting on me to change will never work as that is again shifting the responsibility on to me.

You must change yourself and address your own issues regardless, otherwise you are depending on someone else for your happiness or self improvement which is not right.

Please stop blaming me and start focusing on what you can do to better yourself and your relationships, that is the only thing you can control and ultimately the only thing that will help.

At the time we rationalize our disrespect by convincing ourselves that we're doing our spouses a big favor, to lift them from the darkness of their confusion into the light of our superior perspective. If they would only follow our advice, we tell ourselves, they could avoid many of life's pitfalls-and we would also get what we want.

A disrespectful judgment occurs whenever one spouse tries to impose a system of values and beliefs on the other. When a husband tries to force his point of view on his wife, he's just asking for trouble. When a wife assumes that her own views are right and her husband is woefully misguided -- and tells him so -- she enters a minefield.

In most cases, a disrespectful judgment is simply a sophisticated way of getting what one spouse wants from the other. But even when there are the purest motives, it's still a stupid and abusive strategy. It's stupid because it doesn't work, and it's abusive because it causes unhappiness. If we think we have the right -- even the responsibility -- to impose our view on our spouses, our efforts will almost invariably be interpreted as personally threatening, arrogant, rude, and incredibly disrespectful. That's when we make sizable withdrawals from the Love Bank.

Fighting with her is not going to achieve anything other than pushing her away. I don't know if this is salvageable, but if I were you, I would do a solid Plan A and see what happens. I don't think she is gone for good. I hear a woman who is profoundly frustrated and feels trapped in her life. She doesn't see any path back. If she was really done, she would not be fighting with you.

#1 enemy of good conversation: bringing up the mistakes of the past.

You are lecturing her and ignoring the things she wants from you.

Read the definition of a disrespectful judgment:

here

You quoted me, not her. I wrote that it's not possible on the road we are on, and that a new direction is needed.

I agree and know that this is the marriage builders way, but how do you deal with someone who is just completely discontent? Do I buy her a boob job, a new car, make myself always available, earn lots of money, never show any disappointment over her decisions, agree with everything she wants to do? I asked about implementing the POJA and she doesn't want to because she would loose too much. I asked about marriage builders, but she doesn't want to because it doesn't agree with her view on marriage.

ML, please keep in mind that she is very insecure and can't handle any criticism regardless of how it's worded or how productive it is. So I think the biggest problem is that she continually does things that really bother me, but I don't have a way to voice my issue with it without it being heard as an attack.

I've tried my darnedest to be respectful and polite as the Harleys recommend complaining, but not criticizing, but no matter what I've tried, it's always heard as criticizing.

For example, she is perpetually late for things. If I tell her that it bothers me, then I can expect her to withdrawal for a few hours if not a few days.

She prides herself on being the perfect wife and mom and anything you say that is viewed as contrary to that, is really hurtful to her, then withdrawal, if not rudeness and disrespect.[/quotee]

So you think criticism will disabuse her of this pride?? YOU SHOULD BE THE HEAD OF HER CHEERLEADING SQUAD! Not her head criticizer.

[quote]If I try to explain that her issues with her son have a lot to do with how she treats him, we go through the cycle again. It's like the only thing acceptable to her is for me to take all of the responsibility and blame for everything wrong in her life.