Hi all, I am sure many of you know my ongoing situation but if not here is a brief outline - H in affair and has been for past 18 months. I found out just over a year ago, did plan A for around 8 months and now doing a modified kind of plan B. He has left three times, first two times came home promising to never do it to me again and promising the kids the same, ie, to never leave them again. All it takes is OW to pick up the phone and call him at work and he is off with her again. He is now staying in an apartment (by himself) to sort himself out. He has been there for just over 2 months. I have 2 kids. One visits him every weekend, the other will have nothing to do with him (he has hurt her too badly). So, what do I do. Do I just keep on going, letting him have his fun with OW while I keep the home fires burning or do I file for divorce. I do still have love for him but it is dwindling away each day. I have no family here since I am from another country but I have a lot of good friends. Do I find someone who will treat me much better or do I stay and wait for my "real" husband to come home some day? I know that no one has all the answers but I am getting to the point where I don't know any more. He says he is not ready to end all contact with OW yet and he knows that is what he must do to make our marriage work. Help!!!<BR>

Wouldn't it be nice to peep into the tomarrows of our lives? I also would like to know for sure the answer to your question..My H must have left 10 times in the first year after I caught them together at MIL's... It has been easier not going through the in and outs during our separation, but I have just sent Plan B letter 20+ months after discovery.. If Im going to do this I'm going by the book.... Send the letter today... Know that you did all in your power to do to finish this race a winner....<P>Just my thoughts, take what you want, leave the rest... Ill pray for you too...<P>cozy

This looks like the cousins club of long-timers. If only I knew the answer to your question.<P>I'll give you my standard advice which I have difficulty swallowing myself. This is not about your relationship with him, it's about his relationship with her. Affairs are addictions and he can't let go of it. There is nothing you can do to make him give her up, whether you're nice, distant, or file for divorce yourself. All are unlikely to have impact.<P>That being said, all major decisions should be based on what's in the best interest of you and the children. Do whatever is most comfortable FOR YOU. The open door does not seem to be helping, so if you're more comfortable closing it, feel free.<P>On the DB Board, I've seen Michele give some advice that I think is interesting. She asks the question "what would you be doing differently if you had filed for divorce"? I think it's a provocative question, because it makes you realize that you can make the same behavioral changes without actually filing. You can date, move on with your life, plan, etc., all without permanently closing the door. After this much time, unless you actually WANT a divorce, I advice you to follow Michele's advice. You have to think of yourself and the kids.

Loveu,<P>I agree with Used2BCozy. Send the plan b letter today. Find a friend that can be the liaison between you and husband. It is time for him to do his business or get off the pot. This is just to hard on all of you. I am not in your situation and pray to God I don't get to the point that I have to do plan B. I feel for all that are in that position.<P>I think you need to do this quickly before all your love dwindles away. <P>Like Used2BCozy said that way you will know that you did everything you could.<P>I will go light a candle in prayer right now for you. <P>(One for you too Used2BCozy! )<P>------------------<BR>God bless you and all of us.<P>Samantha<BR>

From another of the worn-out...<P>My H told me this weekend he wants to work on the marriage. We agree he shouldn't move back in until changes have been made. Today he didn't call, email or stop by my work (our store), but gee, he did find time to come to the house (which I have specifically asked him not to do when I am not here)and he was on the computer. Now he's nowhere...not here, not at his other house. And somehow, I suspect he's not out doing something nice for me. <P>I guess if he wants to work on the marriage I want to see some WORK! Read "romance" like he gave the dirtbag OW. <P>I hate it when their words have absolutely no relation to their actions.<P>Sorry I ranted on your thread loveu, but I'm so irritated tonight and I'd rather lovebust here than rip his ears off. I don't know why at the point I'm ready to go on without him he always gives me that glimmer of hope "but I hope someday we'll be together".

Loveu: I hope you don't mind some advice from a guy who needs advice, but here goes: As we discovered, I am in the exact situation as yourself. I have been trying to save our marriage while my wife has had an affair for the past 18 months. Again, I repeat, I have been trying to save our marriage, not we. How can you save a marriage when one person is doing all the work? How long can we hold on to something that is over? I've decided that I need to stop acting like an ostrich and get my head out of the sand and face facts. SHE IS IN LOVE WITH ANOTHER MAN!!! Sometimes I need to shout this out loud in order to get it through my thick skull. How much clearer can it be? She is not with me! She is not in love with me! Why do we continue to try to fool ourselves? The big clue here is that they are with other people, not us. Why do we live in denial? In a fantasy dream? When it is over, it is over. I think that 18 months, almost 2 years..think of this, 2 long agonizing years of feeling miserable, is long enough. I want to live again! I want to be happy! I hate this gnawing feeling of false hope that I have all of the time. I am going to make it stop. I know the feeling won't go away right away, but I think I will feel better knowing I have made the decision to move on. I need to do this while I still have some self-respect. I am 37 years old and hopefully will have a nice long life ahead of me. I can't waste any more precious time. I am a good person. People like me. I want to like myself again. I think if I put myself out "there" that I could find someone who will love me and appreciate me. All the plan A's or B's, letter writing, etc. can't prolong this agony any longer. I'm getting legal advice. Keep in touch, Sugar. D.

Thank you all for your replies. I have already sent him the Plan B letter (twice), first time he came home then I sent it again last time he moved out. It is very complicated in Plan B because my son (who's 8), gets angry with me because I don't want my H to come in the house when he drops him off or picks him up. He wants his Dad to come in and sit and watch TV with him and play with him and he looks at me like I am the one spoiling everything (!!!). I agree with what you said Distressed and I guess a lot of it is true - how would my life be different if I filed - I guess it wouldn't. So perhaps I just go on this way for however long it takes - I just hate this so much. The one unfortunate thing I have to do as well is see the OW off and on at school, grocery store in the street etc. A living hell. How did we all get this far? Should I make my daughter (10) see my H. She flatly refuses at the moment. She is pleasant when he comes into the house but then complains to me when he is gone for letting him in. My son hates me for not letting H in and my daughter hates me for letting him in - aaggh help.

Desperado - sorry, I guess I was writing at the same time as you. I understand exactly what you are saying because that is how I feel too but I don't want to file for divorce and have it be the biggest mistake of my life. I have 2 kids to consider and they want their Dad to come home - do I just take that away from them? I too want to have someone care for me and love me but my H still says he does love me - I know, he probably just says that so as I don't go out and find someone else - I am just so confused. I want someone to hold me and take care of me for a while - is that too much to ask?

I totally agree with desperado...all the plans in the world wont work if its over. You can be the "worker" till your blue in the face and all you are getting out it is a headache which isnt getting you anywere. If you have done all you can, then there is a limit. Its time to be happy again and enjoy life, its much to short!

Loveu: My wife tells me she loves me too. Especially if I ask her. And, I think in her way she probably does. I love her. We've known each other for a long time, and we've been married for 16 years. We will always have love for each other. In time, I think it will be like the love we have for an old dear friend. But now, I want the old fashioned romantic true love. Not the brotherly, relative love. Love that I don't have to share with her and another. I want my own private love. <P>I too have 2 children. I'll always be their father. I don't need to live in the same house to be their father. My kids come to my apartment and we read together, and play and talk, watch a little tv..not too much as I don't want take away from our togetherness. They think it is quite a treat. They are 8 and 10 years old. I'm sorry that your children are having a difficult time. I think you need to encourage your daughter to see her father. Again, maybe in time he won't be your husband, but he will be her father forever. Help her understand this. He may not be the perfect father (who is), but still, he deserves her respect. Maybe I'm a little old-fashioned in this regard.<P>We all need someone to hold us and love us...naturally, not forced, not without true feelings. It can't be fake. And we don't want leftovers. I don't, do you?<P>I'm sorry, but I can't agree on the advice you got about not "closing the door" permanently. Kinda like havin' your cake and eatin' it too. I think that again, you are just prolonging the inevitable if you do this. The pain and false hope will still be there. <P>As far as getting a divorce may be the biggest mistake in your life...well, I'm going to take the risk. I think that hanging in there and thinking that my wife will change her mind at any second and come running back to me is her loss. I am not a 7-Eleven...open 24 hours for her convenience. Not any longer, anyway!

All of these decisions are tough, but I do believe the only valid reason to file for divorce is to actually want one. Thinking that filing for divorce will end the pain or get the betrayer to wake-up are not good bets. Letting go is not dependent on legal milestones. It is a state of emotional readiness that has nothing to do with court decrees. I personally think a person should be at or passed the point of letting go before they file for divorce. It's too big a step to risk being wrong about.

loveu,<P>I'm on a posting role tonight. Don't know why, as several months ago I posted all the time. <P>Your post sounds so familiar to me except my h had a much longer affair. (See my profile) H has left 3 times, tried and still doing plan a. Failed at a full plan b.<P>Kids are devastated. Love their father, call him several times a day at work or on his cell phone. <P>I feel just like you. What am I waiting for? I want someone to put their arms around me at night just to make me feel cared for, safe and secure. I'm attractive, I could find some to treat me like I deserve. But I want the man I married <BR>13 1/2 years ago. The man I have lived with for 17 years.<P>I live in So CA. I was so angry when the earthquake happened two weeks ago! I was here alone with two small boys. He should have been here!@@@@@@@@<P>The last two days I have had the stomach flu, my nine year old made his own dinner(a bowl of cereal) and took care of himself and his brother while his mother threw up in the kitchen sink. I told him to call his father. He didnt do it. It was almost like he took on the role of a caretaker for me. He is too little to feel responsible for caring for his mother when she is sick. He was an emotional nightmare. He was crying and worried and wouldn't call his father. What was that all about.<P>Sorry, rambled on again on someone elses thread.<P>Hoping<P>

Desperado, we sound so alike and seem to be thinking along the same lines at the moment. My kids are 8 and 10 as well and I am really trying to get my daughter to see H. My H came around tonight and she was fine with him, as she always is when he is at home but she will not go to his apartment with him or go out anywhere with him.<P>Distressed - I would not go for a divorce to try to make my H come back to me, I would only go for it if I really wanted it and right at the moment I am not sure what I want. Some days I want a divorce, other days I want him home. Right at this moment today I don't know what I want. I would only do it though if I really wanted to move on with my life without him.<P>Thank you for all your kind replies, I really do appreciate them and need them tonight. I am tired of sleeping alone, I am tired of taking care of the children alone and I am tired of trying to save a marriage alone. I need someone to want me and only me. Sorry, I am not feeling good tonight and needed to let go a little. Thanks for listening to me.

Hi Loveu,<P>Have to agree with most others. I feel the same as you with regards to loosing love for the S. If you want to protect what love you still have left for your H. You must go to Plan B. I see you have sent "the letter" X2 in the past. I would say don't even bother with the letter. Your'e loosing crediblity. JUST DO IT. I know easier said than done.<P>I have taken a most unorthodox plan myself thou not on purpose. I went out on a date last night. No, not with the W. With someone new. I told her [the date] up front that I am still married and nothing physical or emotional will come out of this until the divorce is final. She was also made aware that I love Val very much and hope for her return.<P>We had a six hour dinner date and exchanged stories of past failed love intrests. Yes strange topic for a first date but it just flowed. Thought that would have scared her away. Before the night was over we made arrangements to meet again. It felt great to be able to talk so openly to a member of the opposite sex and know we both didn't expect anything out of each other.<P>Well my brain stepped in today and asked what was so different that Val was doing. [I replied I'm not out to screw her] I still felt very dirty. W called tonight and I told her about the date. She laughed and said "You didn't go out with anyone". "Yes I did". I told her that since she wasn't intrested in me and I found someone who is.<P>Also said that if she can date, so can I. I will not be sitting here every night awaiting your [W] return. I believe reality might have struck. W told me she would call soon so "we" can go on a date. She still doesn't want the divorce. I hear less and less about Brian. Maybe she just needed a little nudge.<P>I don't recommend this method to anyone else. Well lets see what happens first.<P>Sorry for taking your thread with my silly stuff.<P>Wishing us all the Best.<P>Medic

I always think "What advice would I give my daughter if she were in this position?" As her well-being, happiness and security are paramount to me, I believe I would advise her to leave this oh-so dedicated husband. Best friends. Companions. Lovers. These are the same people intent on giving us misery, loneliness, jealousy, lies and betrayl. <BR> I agree that if you can honestly say you've given it your best shot, and nothing significant has changed, it's time to call it a day.<BR> I believe that the things we do now could have repercussions on our children, on their feelings of self-worth, self-esteem. By sticking around, are you saying you don't deserve better? That this is what they should settle for? If, on the other hand, you leave permanently, and you create a stable, happy single-parent household, what message would they get? That it's ok to be single, that you can still be happy, that you are strong and capable of bringing the attention back to them (instead of you and hubby). And who knows, you might just find someone else, who is capable of being a great husband and step-father. And this would, of course, then illustrate to the children how a good marriage is created on love, caring, respect, etc. It would give them a bench mark to aim for.<BR> By leaving hubby, you'd also be teaching your children that nothing is gained by carrying on in such a self-centered, self indulgent way, that to do so, you risk everything.

I always think "What advice would I give my daughter if she were in this position?" As her well-being, happiness and security are paramount to me, I believe I would advise her to leave this oh-so dedicated husband. Best friends. Companions. Lovers. These are the same people intent on giving us misery, loneliness, jealousy, lies and betrayl. <BR> I agree that if you can honestly say you've given it your best shot, and nothing significant has changed, it's time to call it a day.<BR> I believe that the things we do now could have repercussions on our children, on their feelings of self-worth, self-esteem. By sticking around, are you saying you don't deserve better? That this is what they should settle for? If, on the other hand, you leave permanently, and you create a stable, happy single-parent household, what message would they get? That it's ok to be single, that you can still be happy, that you are strong and capable of bringing the attention back to them (instead of you and hubby). And who knows, you might just find someone else, who is capable of being a great husband and step-father. And this would, of course, then illustrate to the children how a good marriage is created on love, caring, respect, etc. It would give them a bench mark to aim for.<BR> By leaving hubby, you'd also be teaching your children that nothing is gained by carrying on in such a self-centered, self indulgent way, that to do so, you risk everything.

Wow, I didn't realise there were so many people out there feeling the same as me. I thought everyone was being "good" and just sitting at home like I am and waiting for their spouse to come home. I am glad I am not the only one feeling this way. I feel in many ways ready to talk to my H about this and tell him I am ready to move on if he is not willing to commit to me. I just need to pick the right time and be really strong. Thanks for all the great advice from everyone. I appreciate everyone taking the time to help me.<BR>

Loveu: Hope you're still reading this. Saw that your daughter spoke with her dad last night. I'm so happy for you. Good job!!! Little by little she will feel more comfortable to actually go out with him. My daughter was like that at first. This is something new for them. But, again like I said before, now they love coming to my place. They know it is their second home. I've let them fix up their own room with their own toys and stuff. So they know it will be the same each time they come over.<P>I've been thinking that all of us who are in the process of "moving on" should have a "cyber handhold" (hope this doesn't sound hokey)and support each other through the ups and downs that are before us. I know sometimes it may be easier to get support from strangers than the constant burden we place upon our friends and family. I know that my friends are more than a little tired of hearing about the latest episode of my soap opera. I know this forum is supposedly for building marriages, but let's broaden it to "building ourselves". What do you and the others think? Take care. D.