I'm new to this and have a WW who I am in currently in plan A with thanks to dr. H phone call on the radio show. All I have to say is this. You have a lot of people on your side but your too bull headed to see that they are trying to help you. Frankly, it's getting me upset! Time to man up or wimp out. Get your BS out of your mind! Put yourself in her shoes! Take the test 3x if you have too not for her but for you. You cheated and then didn't disclose ALL the facts. You should be proactive not reactive. Read the books follow the advice it's so simple! You have the best shot at getting your wife back stop trying to impress your BS with your look at me change trash and just do it!

I would like to make a guess. She has all she needs to know from your poly: lied one too many times to protect yourself. She wrote the Harley's out of respect to them and their program as well as to defend her stance on her Plan B because you keep pounding on her Plan B (protecting herself from you) being inappropriate. You may have one slim chance for a very limited time to understand this isn't about getting her to accept your point of view as being hers as well. Just a guess about her point of view.

The purpose of Plan B is to protect the betrayed spouse from further abuse and to allow them a time to HEAL emotionally. You see, Plan B is not about you, as much as you have attempted to make it so. Plan B is about RQ and her health.

A WS who understands this will not pressure the BS to jump back in and start meeting with them. He would instead be concerned about the BS and wanting to make sure the BS has what SHE NEEDS.

Have you considered that RQ NEEDS Plan B?

EXACTLY!

This has been Kiss's MO all along and it's why RQ was forced to go into PlanB. She was devastated that Kiss kept dragging his heals and doing nothing....

I'm sorry, he was doing something.... LYING, conning and manipulating! And it was NEVER to protect RQ, as he likes to try to convince everyone,,,,it was to save his own [censored]'
If you listen closely to the radio program, he even tried to do this with Dr. H...

Talk about self deception!

Protecting the love bank is a by-product of Plan B but NOT the purpose. Dr. H explained to me that BS are high risk for nervous breakdowns and he created Plan B to help them avoid that.

So if Plan B is about protecting RQ from having a nervous breakdown and not about protecting her love bank, how does this change your approach to making right all the wrongs you have committed against RQ?

Almost 100 pages into a thread, and you still show no real remorse, and complete disregard for your BW. This ISN'T about YOU. It's NEVER been about you. It has ALWAYS been about what RQ needed to recover.

RQ needs to take this at HER pace, and make HER decisions. You need to become a truly remorseful, and plugged in husband. And STOP fighting what people have been saying to you. Really think about what people are posting. Read it more than once. Especially things written by HPB, because he is saying the things that most of us are thinking.

When was the last time you read someone else's thread? When was the last time you listened to a radio show? How successful have you been at sticking to the EPs you stated earlier in your thread? You should be using your time to fix YOU, not focus on how to get RQ to talk to you, or to get her to change this, or accept that. And, remember, this time is also showing you what a DIVORCE would look like(other than the no dating). Your life could possibly end up like this. Do you want that? I have assumed the answer to that is no, which is the only reason I have continued to post to you. You have shown SOME improvement, but it's still not enough.

With all the descriptive words in the English language, the fact that you use "been through a lot" frightens me.

Your thinking she has "been through a lot" demonstrates you do not understand how important it is for her to HEAL emotionally/mentally.

You pretty much put a gun to her head, then instead of shooting her there, you moved it and shot her 100 times all over her body and she has been slowly dying. Not just from the adultery, but from everything you've done since then.

And now, because you FEEL you finally understand and are ready to create a great marriage, you cannot understand why she won't join you eagerly in this endeavor.

But she is STILL BLEEDING and is terrified you are going to use her as a target again.

SHE knows she cannot survive another shot. She knows recovery is going to take some vulnerability and she wants to be healthier so she can survive a hit or two.

Yet, you want her to get out of that Plan B and start talking to you because YOU want to work on recovery.

How do I know that?

Because you said it right here:

What Dr. H agreed with was that to save a marriage the spouses need to be in contact and start working the program.

But you have not yet allowed RQ enough Plan B time to HEAL enough to reach a point that she can decide whether she wants to stay married to you.

Do you know how I knew that HerPapaBear was done being a wayard?

Because he did not approach me and demand that I start working MB...even at MY pace.

He approached me wanting support me in MY healing...whatever that looked like...even if it meant divorce and staying out of my life.

You have nearly destroyed RQ...not JUST YOUR MARRIAGE AND FAMILY....HER...

and you are all about how you've done everything asked of you and she just needs to start having some contact with you because YOU WANT your marriage.

Why do you deprive her of healing emotionally and mentally?

BS's get frustrated with you because you have been here so long and still do not understand the toll your adultery and continued lies have taken on RQ. There are enough threads here to read and understand what battling an affair does to a person.

My friend hung herself as a direct result of her husband's adultery. Many of us here have been on the verge of nervous breakdowns, collapse, and/or suicide.

Your wife's LONG battle with your lies, deceit, abuse, demands, etc. has worn her to near breaking point.

There was a time RQ was eager for recovery. THAT time has passed. Now she just wants to regain her strength as a woman so she can survive...and then MAYBE consider rebuilding a marriage.

Go above and beyond in your EPs, in transparency, and coming clean with the past, and becoming a safe person OVER THE LONG HAUL, and eventually, if you are sincere, she will see that. Yes, even through an IM.

I haven't listened to the show, yet, but it sounds like you used it to try to debate what RQ should do, instead of as an opportunity to find out what you should do.

I won't waste my breath debating what RQ should do. She should have no contact from you, IMO, because so far there's no evidence that you will do what it takes for the long haul. You can't even stay on task for more than a week or two before the conversation becomes all about what RQ should do instead of what you should do.

Your message needs to change from "Hurry up and get through this so we can recover together" to "I will wait for you as long as it takes and do whatever it takes for as long as it takes."

What are you going to do if RocketQueen does not come out of Plan B?

What an excellent question.

HerPapaBear,

I am not sure what you are asking. I believe you are talking about the first time RQ went into plan B. Back in January. I had no idea what she was doing or anything about MB. So yes I did not give her space and was very selfish.

Now if we had discussed it and she explained it to e the way that Indie did in a post a couple of weeks back. I would have understood why and what the benefits where.

I do respect her but when you are uneducated about something you can't see how it benefits each person. Thats my fault for not reading or asking the question on here sooner.
Dr. Harley did say that its not really a plan B now its more about giving her space to make a decision without my influance.

KISS

HerPapaBear,

I told Dr. Harley that RQ did not want me to take it again. She had you had the information she needed to make her decision as she wanted to know if their was a relationship before I moved out.

I did request that I take it again. I was willing to take it ASAP. When he called RQ to go through the results he told her that I wanted to take it again. RQ said that their was no benefit in me taking it again.

I do not blame RQ for anything.

You are wrong because I am going to keep on posting and listening to the radio show as long as RQ and I feel that their is a benefit to it. I also believe that we can recover because she now knows everything. I don't have to worry about protecting a secret that she does not know. I have worked on my EP's and am going to keep up my defenses and not give anyone an opportunity to make any kind of deposits into my love bank except for RQ. Also meeting her emotional needs is my number one priority.

KISS

HerPapaBear,

Yes I do have defects in my character. I have done an aweful job of protecting my emotional needs. I never realized how loose I was with my boundries. I am now working on my EP's and focusing on how RQ would want me to handle certain situations.

Another one of my character flaws was not being truthful. I was hidding secrets from RQ and not giving her the answers that she was looking for. I have since told her everything and answer all her questions with the truth even if I know that its painful.

KISS

SMB,

I am hoping that the radio clip from Monday so I can listen to it a again.

The way to right all the wrongs I have committed against RQ if she was to continue in her plan B would to continue to read and learn as much as I can about marriage Builders. I need to continue to fix my self before I can help RQ or fix or marriage. I need to give her her space to decide what she wants and make a decision on her own without me pressuring her.

KISS

Even if RQ is not interested in another poly, what would stop you from taking one on your own? Make your own list of questions (hint: we can help), ones that are not open for secondary interpretations. Take it all on your own, without expectations.

If she's ever ready, she can see the results then.

If you continue telling the "I did nothing wrong" story about the restraining order to some people, and "yes I was wrong, and I see why she needed protection from me" story to other people, you just aren't going to get very far.

Taking responsibility part-time is not taking responsibility at all.

Kiss,

Glad to see you made it back!

I was beginning to think I may have piss'd you off and you weren't going to talk to me anymore.


This is a good start, tell me more. A lot more....

SMB,

I agree that my demands to be with RQ to recover have been selfish. I had felt that she will forget about me. My thought process was that she has the kids the house. She can just keep her life going and I would fade away. I would keep going from friends house to friends house just thinking of how I have screwed up and lost everything that I have. I have put that behind me and just trying to learn everything I can. I have been trying to focus on my own recovery and my areas that I have failed in the past.

I just want to be their for her but now I realize that I do have a powerful impact over her and I pressure her to make decisions. I never realized that I did that to her. Recovery will be at her pace. What ever she needs. I expect ups and downs. Its just trying to make the downs as few as possible and be their to support her.

KISS

HPB,

Sorry for the couple day laps I was gone. Working retail black Friday week stinks. I have a question. I'm having a big problem with guilt from the pain I have caused RQ and the things I have done. I have thoughts about RQ or the kids and I have issues controlling my emotions. It doesn't matter if Im at work or driving or even in a group of people.

I feel a big relief RQ knowing everything that happened in the beginning and not trying to bury a lie. But it has brought out a lot of pain and hate rid. I hate the female I had the affair with and mostly I hate myself. I have always been known to have some what of an ego and think highly of my self. That has changed a lot. I had a conversation the other night with my buddy that is letting me stay at his condo right now and I was thanking him for all he has done for me and I told him I had money for him. He said he didn't want anything he just wanted to see me get through this and that I was a really good dude. I questioned him on weather a good person would turn his back on his best friend(RQ) and his kids. I can't let go of the anger with my self.

KISS