Agreed completely.

If you want him to commit, to really commit, then call his bluff and watch how fast he changes course once he realizes that you're ready to bolt. By then, of course, you may not even be open to recovery but that's ok as well.

I'd tell him to cut the crap and grow the hell up. That you are done playing these stupid games.

The kids are already in it. They are being affected by this more that you know. You are not using them s a tool by drawing a line in the sand.

If he resents you forever because you made him take a poly then he never leaves the fog behind. HE IS STILL IN THE FOG and so are you. If you push this and get tough, he just might snap out of the fog and thank you someday.

I'm shocked that you're even debating this shiz with him. How can you let the wayward have control here? INSANE.

Yes, I know the children are already being affected...I just don't want to use them as pawns to throw around ultimatums just to get him to take a poly. He's forcing me to play games with our children?

He is still in the fog? Geez...then we've made zero progress. Wow, that's depressing.

Last night we got as far as him saying "Ok so the next step is to go downstairs and tell the boys that I'm leaving..."

I said "Ok, lets go." He immediately backed down. "That's not what I want - that's what YOU want?"

"No, that's not what I want, but it seems like that's what YOU want because you are leaving me no other option."

You see, he'll test me to the point that I'll have to go to my children pack them up and THEN he'll say ok, fine, I'll take the poly. Is it worth it? Can I move on without it?

Oh and btw he's "tired of me dangling our marriage and our children's lives in front of him every week". So I'm not saying "OR ELSE" again. Next time, (come Sunday) if he doesn't comply with what I've asked, I just pack. Just haven't decided who's things I'm packing yet...

Yes HE is...... not you. And it is not a game, it is the rest of your life and your kids.

He is playing you and using your kids to do it.

Tell him you will resent him for the rest of your life together (if you have one) if he DOES NOT take the poly.

I did tell him exactly that. Got me nowhere.

His things. You and the kids stay put.

Insist on the poly. It's, at this point, a power struggle and you need to assert yourself by defining what you will and will not put up with in a marriage.

For something that started out somewhat innocuous, his antics over taking it have woven some gigantic red flags, haven't they? It's all the more reason to have him take one.

I agree, brace yourself because I feel like he is still in the fog because he is still active or still witholding something important to be that much against it.

How about saying "yes. this is what i want. pack a bag and we can arrange a time this weekend for you to pick up the rest of your stuff. i'm not willing to stay in a marriage with someone who won't offer me protection and honesty"

then hand him the plan b letter as he's walking out the door.

he is hiding A LOT. otherwise he wouldn't be so reluctant to take the poly. and yes, he's in the fog. perhaps he's still in the affair. oh yeah! they work together so HE'S STILL IN THE AFFAIR.

this is exhausting. you keep saying you should, coulda followed the plans. it's not too late but you're not doing anything except having long, unproductive debates with an addict.

please respect yourself enough to do something forceful and strong for yourself and the kids. please.

he still has more loyalty for his slut than he does for you. he's protecting her and the 'love' they shared which probably consisted of sweaty blowjobs on lunch breaks and secret email accounts while you took care of the infant you just gave birth to.

he's probably writing her furtive emails even now about how hellish it is to live with you and someday they can be together.

WAKE UP.

Yeah, I found out about the secret email accounts eventually zibbles so yes, you are totally right about that part.

I caved on the poly at this point and that's something I have to live with for now - with myself.

He did everything else as of last night:

1 - finished reading SAA, committed to the program, agreed to everything POJA, RH, UA, etc etc

2 - wrote out the NC letter

3 - wrote out the EPs

4 - agreed to scheduling a phone consult with Dr. Harley

Here is the NC letter he wrote:

Dear Skankasaurus,

I am writing you this letter to communicate my desire to be with my family and fix my marriage. My relationship with you was selfish and wrong and hurt my wife deeply. I am committed to fixing my relationship with my wife and to be with my children. Please respect my wishes and do not reach out to contact me in any way.

Regards,
xxxxx

And here is the list of EPs:

-I will be open and honest with my wife

-I will put the feelings of my wife first above anyone else

- I will not discuss issues with my marriage with anyone of the opposite sex

-I will not spend any time with anyone of the opposite sex in a 1 on 1 atmosphere

-I will not make friends with or do special favors for anyone of the opposite sex unless discussed with my wife first

-I will make it a priority to answer phone calls from my wife

-I will keep my wife informed about my schedule and changes to my schedule and I agree to a GPS on my car if she so chooses

-I will be completely transparent with all computers, cell phones, email accounts, phone & banking records

-If contact is made, I will end the contact immediately and inform my wife of it right away

- I will be open to discussing other precautions as needed

- I will avoid, at ALL costs, going to the building where skank works including but not limited to - informing previously uninformed supervisors of the fact that I cannot work with that person (we are on the verge of major administrative changes in our job)

- If I am unable to avoid going to that building and must work there for a few hours or a day I will call my wife the minute I arrive and keep my cell phone on in a call with my wife the entire time I am in the building. (Due to the fact that we work together I would absolutely know if he was assigned to that building for a job so there's no hiding that part)

- I will install a monitoring device on my office phone

- I will block the skank's numbers from my cell phone

- I will inform my wife immediately if OWH contacts me


So - what do you guys think?

PiecesofMe - I just read the more recent events of your story. I've been going through many of the SAME things just last week as well.

Do NOT cave on the poly. Do NOT CAVE ON THE POLY. Please... !!!

Last Friday, the 15th, I posted here in desparation about the state of my marriage. Several posters clued me in that it was probably an A.

I asked WH to take a poly. He refused. My WH pushed it to the point of telling our daughters that we were divorcing. This was last Saturday, the 17th. It was devastating to hear them screaming, "please don't do it!" I told them why - that I suspected Daddy of not telling me the truth and I needed him to take a polygraph. At the time I still believed he didn't have a PA. I told my children that I needed him to take a polygraph so that we could move forward. WH kept saying, "I'll do MB, I'll do counseling, but I will NOT take the poly. If you don't take that off the table, I'm leaving!"

My children begged me not to push it. My MIL begged me not to push it. My WH made me feel that the divorce was going to be all my fault because I wouldn't drop it. He even told me children that he did nothing wrong, and if only Mama would drop it, we could stay together. My MIL told my children we were both being "stubborn". My children BEGGED me to drop it.

With the help of this board, and lots of prayers, I stood my ground on the poly. I learned to no longer be AFRAID of losing him. The night WH confessed, I simply said, "Why do you want me to continue suffering when all you have to do to ease my suffering is to take the test?" I learned things I didn't want to know, but there is NO WAY we were going to have a chance without assurance of the TRUTH. He took the poly this past Friday and I have seen SUCH a change in him and our marriage already. I don't know what's going to happen in the future - we still have MANY issues to work on, but it would have been IMPOSSIBLE without the poly.

PLEASE DON'T CAVE ON THE POLY! Post here - these WONDERFUL people will hold your hand. You can do this!

Refusing the polygraph completely negates everything else on this list because a) it means he has something to hide and b) you won't be able to build a marriage based on a foundation of lies.

All the other EPs in the world will not overcome the lies. You say you can live with it, and I am here to tell you that you can't.

StrongerMe has been trying to live with the lies now for years and found she could not. You won't either. You will never rest until you get the truth.

So, go back to that point and stay there until he agrees to the polygraph. He has no grounds to deny it since it will clear his good name. Unless..............he has something to hide.

Another deal breaker. I don't understand how calling you negates the contact? If I have a drink of whiskey and tell my spouse, does that mean I am sober? Of course not. Telling you is worthless. He should never be around the OW anywhere, anytime. If he has to get a new job to do that, then so be it.

PiecesOfMe - I KNOW how you are feeling right now. Your heart is probably pounding and you can't breathe. You want to believe the man you are married to is going to abide by the things he has promised you. He won't and he's already proven that to you.

You want to believe he's an exception to everything you've been told here. That maybe he is just offended at the idea of the polygraph and that he has nothing to hide. That maybe you are a crazy, insecure person. That you are being unfair, after all, he's agreed to do so many things.

You will NOT be able to live with yourself if you don't know the truth. Be a strong woman for yourself, your children, your marriage, and, yes, even for your husband.

You CAN do this. You CAN handle the truth. You DESERVE to know the truth. You DESERVE a husband who doesn't want you to suffer another minute. That is what he's doing by refusing the test - he's prolonging your suffering.

DON'T BACK DOWN. You will NOT be able to live without knowing the truth. You can do this and you'll have more support than you could ever imagine on this board.

That bit of doubt in the corner of your mind is going to eat at you and, eventually, bring down this house of cards.

For him to be so resistant to a poly just SCREAMS TROUBLE!


Those two require you to trust him a good bit, don't they. Won't you still wonder if, maybe, just maybe, this is the day that they run into each other?

It sounds as though the job has to go.


A new cell number is needed because...

1. She can call from an unblocked number.
2. If he has a new number and you discover contact, then you'll know that he gave her the new number.

You'll need spyware on that cell as well but don't tell him it's there.

You're almost there, pieces, but please don't let these big things slide by. It isn't going to work if there are loopholes and secrets still laying around.

Ok?

Because there wouldn't necessarily be any contact. If he were to have to work in that building it doesn't necessarily mean he would see her. It just means there's a chance so in order to prevent him from going in search of her to talk to her, he would have me on the phone the whole time. If he were to bump into her in the hallway, he would not be able to have a conversation with her, etc. No good? I understand leaving entirely is better.

You know what's so depressing though? I was re-reading SAA last night and some threads on here and Dr. Harley says that the addiction is so bad that even years later contact can resume and the affair can reignite... WHY would I want to be with someone that wants to be with someone ELSE THAT badly? Just effing go then... ya know? I have to spend the rest of my life babysitting his "addiction".

Ok, ok, just had to get that out...


You realize he's going to flip out on me... accuse me of promising that it would only take x,y,z for me to move on and then adding on, adding on, etc. Can you guys give me a response for that.

Does anyone else see a problem with that NC letter? I do... one big thing missing... and he was super paranoid that I would actually deliver it...

PiecesOfMe, I would bet money he WILL flip out on you and accuse you of promising x,y,z. I heard from my husband - "no matter WHAT I do, it's never enough. You are just an unhappy person. I can't make you happy. It is best to part ways."

My only advice for you is to be ready for it and stand your ground, NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS. You deserve to know the truth and you'll never rest until you know it.

You can do this.

POM, you have to be one of the most stubborn posters I have ever seen resisting what NC entails when the affairees work together. This has been gone over at least 20 times in this thread.

I have never seen or heard Dr Harley suggest that a WS can keep working with his affair partner so long as he is being monitored (which you actually can't monitor him completely). Quite the opposite, he suggests a move to another state if necessary to get far far away from the OP.

I wrote to you earlier in the thread that there was a poster here who refused to believe her WH had to leave his job because he moved to a different building from the OW, she dropped in his office frequently and closely monitored him. About a year later, she woke up in the middle of the night and found the bed empty. She drove by the OW's house and there her WH was.

The EP would be never being around the OW again, not calling you up when he has to enter her building. Whatever gave you that idea from anything that Dr Harley has written??

We would not be doing you any favors supporting them continuing to work together. The refusal of poly is a huge huge red flag that cannot be ignored, PoM.

You will most likely need to leave that job as well, PoM. Because being at the same workplace as the OW is going to trigger you and prevent full recovery as well. Again, this was discussed in the beginning of the thread.