"Because I didn't think I'd get caught" didn't come up, huh.

no... but really who would say that.

it was more like "it all happened so fast and i didnt react fast enough". bc they were actually leaving the dock and the kid and friend were very late, ropes off and holding boat, i actually saw the whole thing, but he did say he should have tied up and given the keys to one of the guys and gotten off. shoulda woulda coulda.

the point is that this could have been avoided by asking the kid who his guest would be. and explaining the rules more clearly.

i was told after they got back there was as inquisition to why he was mad and he had to explain more clearly why there are no females allowed, i am sure that added to his unpleasant mood, having to admit to people that you screwed up.

LOL I've told Kiss the same thing

Chicka, I am sorry you are going through this.

Not only was this was a break in following EPs, it was a disregard for POJA, and outright dishonesty.

The above part bothers me quite a bit. Why did he tell you it was a "guy who has been on the boat" if that wasn't in the text from his friend??? I don't want to alarm you but that kind of a blatant lie (unless I misunderstanding this?) sets off a red flag for me.

Pls consider posting about this incident to Dr Harley on the private forum because this needs to be handled but it sounds like JB is acting "unhappy" to basically get you to back off....

(((chickadee)))

susie

I agree a total disregard, and hence my anger.

H is a avoid trouble liar- that why he said some guy, bc he knows he didnt ask and confirm it with the kid. absolutely no reason for this.

what do you mean by this" JB is acting "unhappy" to basically get you to back off.... "- or do you mean out the door?


i requested that H follow up with Steve, as we are due for an appt. but i may just repost my original post on the private.

reposted- thank for the reminder and push

Hey, chicka... Whatever happened with Dr Harley's advice, were you able to implement and did it help? Pls update when you get a chance

It's on the private forum, Susie - although I wouldn't repost it here without chickadee's permission.

Yes, I saw ITA w/you. I wasn't going to reference the specific advice...more or less just wanted to see if it was of help....

you all are mindreaders.... i was thinking i should update.

see post below. new EP in place and if it ever happens again we will sell the boat. Also H discussed with the crew that that's the rule if they disregard it they are off. i dont think the advice is too restrictive, thats my life now. its very easy to ease up on things, then you are in the same mess that you were in. maybe in a few years that will change but i am not there yet.
it was the last race, so thats over till next season.

Its become very clear that in his dealings with others he has to probe for more information and not assume anything so he can give clear picture. in fact the same type of situation happened yesterday. he did not get the full story and plan and he ended up in a situation that made me unhappy.


we have been working with Steve and its going pretty well, H gets frustrated bc he feels like everyone is telling him hes doing everything wrong. But i definitely see improvement that he is taking a more active role with everything.

lather, rinse, repeat.....

chickadee1:

Since your husband knew all along that he was breaking the rules, but did it anyway, a new extraordinary precaution is in order. The purpose of EPs is to avoid temptations that may lead to an affair that a person has in the past found irresistible. The EP of not having any women other than you on the boat is very important to follow, but what happens when others break the rule of not bringing women on board and your husband can't resist their request. One thought would be to exclude others. In other words, it's only you and he that take the boat out. Some might find this way to restrictive, but if one considers the suffering that it caused you, and real risk that it might have led to more, it's reasonable.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

susie and sugar - ok yes i laugh and sing, your silence is worrying me????????

Sorry for the late response, chicka!

I am glad you two were able to implement Dr Harley's advice and that it helped.

Now this:

I hope this was not more breaking of EPs or more dishonesty? Why is JB not still posting if there are this many bumps in the road?

thanks i was begining to really get worried. no he didnt break any ep's and h wasnt being dishonest.

an example of this would be. friend calls to get together for dinner, H says yes (me included). but doesnt get the date and/or location. and we are either busy, or we dont have dinner in that town anymore bc of EP's.

as for JB posting, other than not having much time, i dont think he is comfortable with forums- we are working with steve and we discuss any of the issues that do come up, we also see someone else weekly (indiv and together) she is helping us communicate better, he's reading alot of books (he just finished language of an apology). it alot of people telling him what to do, (he has said this) so i think the forums may be overload.

So chicka how do feel your recovery is going?

You sound so much better.

thanks BH, its going well. It is alot of work, but i think working with Steve has jump started H eagerness. which in turn jump starts mine (i was getting kind of tired of driving the bus).....

i do think having a male to speak to has definitely helped JB, there were alot of women telling him what to do and when you are not used to that or have mommy issues it doesnt make for great results.

other than work we really dont do anything apart, that is a huge lifestyle change. he is completely transparent with phone, emails (work computer) what he is doing during the day, where his meeting are, and all the other things i set in place are active... so that has made me feel safe. (of course i am crazy or just a realist and think sure he could have another phone). strict EP's in place but in order to avoid the situation that enabled that behavior, and in fact i dont think i would be comfortable any other way.

I do think the scales are tipped now and this about helping me heal which Steve has given him some very good advice- or i think he has because H "gets it" now. H has stepped it up on all levels of meeting my emotional needs. I am working with Steve on how to better meet H's. (ie. H doesnt really think golf is a RC, he thinks running and working out are- but i am not enthusiastic about running or working out) so how do i meet the need for RC when the definitions are different- thats what we are working on. the LB were minimal to start with the biggest one was IB, which is no longer an issue.

Now if H gets fed up with all of the work and requirements on what i need to be married then so be it. I did my best and i am too stubborn to cave on anything that will make me feel safe, i am never getting into that situation again.

so every day there is something new to learn.

sometimes i get very overwhelmed with scope of the deception.
we could run into some random person and it could have been one of them.
the drama that ensured after DD#1 was just retarded.
baby momma could show up for some drama.
OW1 could contact me- she is a psycho.
blah, blah, blah....

so i started acupuncture, which has calmed my brain tremendously, it is such a difference, i am not jumpy or anxious. It has been a very long year and a half. There are times when i think that i should post more in case it helps just one of those guests to register, one of the WH/WW to snap out of it or one BS that think there situation is to crazy for it to work. I am just not that eloquent in writing it out, but i will always answer to the best of my ability.

Well, Chica... if there is one thing I can say, it is that Dr. Harley and, from what I hear, SH understand motivation, and how it works with each sex.

I think they know how to add incentive to action to create motivation.


We all know what the incentive is; a loving, romantic marriage - but it seems that some that need the motivation get their best incentives when they are able to visualize their needs being met expertly, or love busters being elimintated.

ooh the holidays�.

I have a question would like to see if anyone has had the same experience and get some advice.

my H sisters and family blatantly exclude me from conversations and plans, this make me very upset bc it had never been that way, I had actually done most of the planning and communicating with them. This also make H upset because he know it bothers me. I think that affairs definitely bring out the true colors in other people�s behavior.

my problem is that H wants to be involved with his family but it puts and undue amount of stress on us. he sees their behavior and we have POJA everything about the topic. But there are instances that we have to be around them and I don�t know how to deal with it. I feel like they gossip about me or us, its obvious when you walk in the room. I definitely do not feel welcome, and I didn�t do anything.

also SS is involved in these functions and these crazy thoughts run thru my head about ways they would sabotage us, like inviting baby momma or something crazy, so I always have a get out fast plan brewing.

so holidays are hard, because I don�t have family of my own to say let�s do something with instead. or half the time. so if we were to not participate it could be perceived as a slight to them and there would be tit for tat (that�s the way they roll).

thoughts on how to handle alienation from H family?

Why do they exclude you?

Have you and H asked them?

I'd envision something along the lines of an old western movie saloon scene-- where you and he walk in, everyone gets quiet and you ask why the cold shoulders.

i dont know, maybe they are afraid that i will go wacko, or they may catch something. they are so clicky. they have even use their kids to make him feel guilty.

H has asked them to include me and its not been effective and we did once together with one and that lead to nasty exchange (just to Him) and no talking for a while.

oh i play the scene out so many ways, it just never presents itself that way. But it doesnt get me into a good frame of mind when i am replaying it over and over, pisses me off.

Now that you have MB and the wonderful POJA and RH and the guidance of Dr. H. through the private forum and his radio show, you and your H understand that everything you do runs through the POJA first.

I suggest that you brainstorm and perhaps come up with something completely different from your usual holiday plan. Go on a trip over the holidays, volunteer at a shelter or soup kitchen, etc, that you would both be enthusiastic about.

Just breezily say, or have your H breezily say, that you are making a new tradition and will be out of town or whatever it is you plan.

You could ask Dr. H. on the private forum for some ideas. basically, you and H should come up with lots of ideas that you both love. It doesn't mean you have to completely avoid his family. Perhaps an hour drop in on your way to something else.

We have sometimes begged off invitations by saying we had other plans and have no need to explain what they are. Our "other plans" involved staying at home and enjoying our two-ness.

As for the "tit for tat;" well, if they choose not to participate in something you invite them to, that will be their loss. Some families are just difficult to get along with. Best to let them fade off a bit. Speaking from experience.