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#2685003 11/22/12 01:25 AM
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My husband (15 yrs.) has decided to leave, allowing me 1 yr. to get on my feet. He wouldn't stop about it, I more or less agreed to it. I don't want it, but for 5 years we've had all Dr. Harley's books, at my requests he's filled out questionaires & watched video's, he just doesn't want to put anything but his paycheck into our marriage. Then he tries to claim I just want his paycheck. We haven't made love in 42 days, although I gave him pleasuring once. He has made every excuse (over many years)not to make love with me when he's sullen & angry at life. It's all my fault. Tonight he said (again) that he had wanted to leave 16 years ago and I had begged him to stay, and that that was a sacrifice. He still says he wants to leave and abandoned me in 2007, even claiming at one point that he was gay to explain his rejection of me. It's been stress, hating his job, me not caring about all he's going through (even when I ask what he needs and then do it), etc. I am 51, he is 35, he helped me raise 2 of my 3 kids.
Anyway, all his pay stubs are always right, he isn't online, the cell phone checks out...I've tried HARD but there's no evidence of cheating. Still, to always be fighting about it and then a total absence when his arousal is clear and evident makes me feel there is someone. He's been very verbally cruel to me, especially this year, everyone says divorce him.
I'm afraid of going forward at my age, having no support, and there is part of me that still looks at him with so much love. If I could have another guy and lots of security, I would not choose it. He simply refuses to try and claims to have "done his best". He seems to want everything handed to him, his way, on his schedule, with a smile and no being bothered with anything I need. In fact, the world is just fine as long as I don't ask for talk time or that he do something fun with me. When he stands me up and I get hurt, he accuses ME of hurting HIM by expressing my pain...even when I never raise my voice.

Is there any hope at all? He also says he wants children of his own, something I can't provide unless we adopt. When I offered, it was shortly thereafter that he chose leaving over staying and trying.

My kids consider him Dad, even though they're grown now. They'll be devastated. He's admitted holding onto hurt from hearing them call their birth father "Dad" instead of him, but overlooks how they celebrate him, hug him, and give him impromptu praises of how much difference knowing him and him being there for them has made!

It just all looks so selfish and self-centered.

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What would he say he isn't getting in the relationship? Even though you say you have Dr. Harley's books, your post is full of selfish demands and disrespectful judgments. Are you get 15 hours a week UA time? Does he have other recreational companions? What do you do for recreation together? Do you work or is he the sole provider, and if you don't work, why not? Also, how did your relationship with him start...especially with such a big age gap. How did you meet him? Were you married at the time? Was he a friend of your oldest child? Did he express wanting kids while you were still able to, and how was it handled?

I know this may seem like a bombardment of questions, but they will help us provide suggestions. Also, it will probably be slow because of the American holiday weekend.


Me, BS: 35
WxH: 36 "HAM" Hearts a mess
6yo DS (with WxH), 9 and 12yo DDs from first marriage
Discovered DH's affair in June, 2011
"I'm not having an affair, you're crazy." major gaslighting
Served with divorce papers on 2/3/12
Divorce final 7/29/2013
Living day by day, counting my blessings, loving my children
Personal Recovery well underway!
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He said he is gay.
Why did he say that?

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Were you married before? Did this marriage begin as an affair? Are you legally married?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Yes, I was married before for 14 years. When my ex's verbal abuse ramped up and was hurting my kids, I resolved to get me & them away. I scraped up funds and moved 30 miles away-not far enough. I was not legally divorced when I met my present husband, meaning the papers had been filed, but not final. For me, the marriage had been over, sleeping in separate rooms for 5 years, asking for divorce, simply having no job, no car, no way out on a below-poverty income. I went into job training, got a car, an apt. and a restraining order. I married my present husband, legally, in 1997.

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I think I've gotten the math right, but advise me if I've miscalculated.

As I understand it, 16 years ago, you, a 34(?)y/o still-married woman with two children began a relationship with an 18(?) y/o boy, and a marriage was planned. After(?) your divorce was final, and before the wedding this boy began having second thoughts about going forward, and you, though sadly experienced in the difficulties of maintaining a marriage, were so enthusiastic (desperate?) about remarrying that you convinced him to put aside his misgivings and proceed.

Okay, you say you and he filled out the ENQs. What were revealed to be his key ENs? (Also, do you think he was being honest?)

You, of course, have some cause to doubt his fidelity, but the fact that he has had two episodes (2007 and current) of this rejective behavior, with no other evidence of an affair present would work against that. It would seem more likely that his growing dissatisfaction is likely related to the stark difference in your ages and the activities and expectations that would flow from his relative youth. Leaving aside the unanswerable question of your physical attractiveness at 51, there are sports and recreational companionship-type issues that you probably cannot (in his mind, anyway) participate with him in. Add to that the totality of the knowledge that he will, staying married to you, never have children of his own blood, would again cancel out satisfying what may be a key EN for him.

Keep snooping for evidence of an affair, my friend, but it may be that the problems in your marriage do not require the intrusion of a third party.

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I agree with you-I've had a hard time conquering selfish demands. It began because I have a really hard time when people freely offer or commit to something and then renege over and over. Eventually I cried about it, and he plainly told/tells me that "every time you complain about something, you are criticising me". I am frustrated because in Dr. Harley's materials I read that it isn't criticism to tell someone that when they do something (example, break a promise repeatedly) that it hurts, disappoints you, etc., and that is and was all I said. Please clarify disrespectful judgments, as I've been reading the forums & have already had some real eye-openers on what those can be & would appreciate the help. I know from these forums that I did not understand Dr. Harley's materials on that subject.

We do not get 15 hours a week UA time. He says he is tired and frequently, when I ask if we are going to do something together, he says "I never have time to do the things I really want to do because you want all my time." His other recreational companions are my adult sons, who enjoy video games, talking, working on cars with him. For years they've stayed up 4-10 hours on work nights & weekends playing RPG's & card games as well. I was not allowed to join, yes I asked...nicely...at first...later I became very guilty of just expressing how hurt that made me, as it went on for years and still does.

Until he made the decision to leave, our recreation mostly consisted of watching movies and he got upset if I wanted us to agree on one we both liked.

We met through mutual friends, when he came for a visit to our state. He did not know my kids before he knew me. My divorce had been filed, was not final, I & my kids were living in an apartment for 2 months before he came to the state.

He expressed wanting kids, early when we began getting to know each other, and I told him clearly I could never have any more children, because I'd had my tubes cut & tied 2 years before. I was not and am not opposed to adopting, but he's always said his mother wants grandchildren. She does not accept my children, even on the level of step-grandchildren & is very clear about that. My husband's sister had a baby girl about 6 years ago. He was aware of this a year before we married. He has plainly stated that he "wants the feeling of a little kid who calls me "Dad" and there's just no one else he or she calls that." He also says he was very hurt that my boys didn't call him Dad. My youngest asked back then if he could call him "Daddy" and he answered, "If you want to", but then my 5 year old's face went sad and he said, "But if I do, Dad'll get hurt or be mad". Many times, through the years, my youngest has given only my husband gifts or cards for Father's Day, neither son forgets him, and the youngest still frequently plays for him a country song about hoping to grow up to be "half the Dad you didn't have to be", and tells him that his name (J****) means "Dad", literally, eyes glowing every time. He's spent his life asking everyone "don't I look just like J****?", as they both have red hair, blue eyes and are big people. He was very proud. He is now incredibly hurt. His words.

He is presently the sole provider, although I've worked at a variety of jobs, a local university, tax preparation, even in a laundry once when we were living further south and hit a rough spot financially. I don't work right now because we only have one automobile (of 2) running and his wage is higher than anything I could obtain currently, and jobs are minimum 25 miles one way from where we live, which is a tiny mountain-top community. (The county doesn't even have a hospital or, lol, a McDonald's. Seriously.)

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"He said he is gay.
Why did he say that?"

I asked him, at the time, whether he was serious, was this real and, at first, he said it was. I told him I would have to leave in that case, and he asked why. I told him because it wasn't fair to either of us to live that way. He told me he "thought" he was gay because he had little desire for me and felt close, emotionally, to an older co-worker. He's always had a lot of pain over his dad calling him "worthless" as a kid and his mom not standing up for him. (His words.) At his dad's funeral, 2010, he poured tears and shouted toward the urn during the memorial, that "I'm NOT worthless! I'll never be your worthless son again. I love you and I forgive you and I'm WORTH a lot!" Many people hugged him afterward and told him how brave that was, pouring his heart and pain out in front of everyone. I know it took a lot to let something that deep out and I agree he really needed to. He says he felt closest to me during those couple months, while he was grieving and I was holding him and just caring and encouraging.

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Yes, you have the ages right, yes, the divorce was final, and I can be clearer on this -->"Tonight he said (again) that he had wanted to leave 16 years ago and I had begged him to stay, and that that was a sacrifice." As soon as my soon-to-be-ex-husband (papers already filed, served, etc.) learned I had met my current husband and liked him, (and that was the entirety at the time, we had not actually had a date but had met a few times among mutual friends' company, in their homes), my soon-to-be-ex (who was diagnosed as bipolar, refused to take medication and had hallucinations of God directing him to drive into a tree to prove his faith, which he did, among other things) began stalking me, appearing under the window of my apartment, waking neighbors, all manner of things. I tried to get my restraining order enforced and the very judge who had signed it, with a hospital report of his abuse, told me "he just wants to see his kids. You take him over to your apartment and let him spend some time and he'll calm down." I did as I was told by the judge and made plans to move to another county. After the move with my kids, J**** (current husband) asked to move in with me. My divorce was final and I said yes, as he had decided to stay in the area, was employed (as was I) and my ex had seemed to calm down, even though I had been dating. As soon as he moved in, however, my ex started trolling the neighborhood, meeting my neighbors, spreading rumors and even showing up on my job. When J**** said he couldn't take it anymore and wanted to return to his home state, I believed this would pass and begged him to stay and give it a chance. He said he wanted us to move again, I talked to my sons to see if they would be upset by so much moving, and they were actually happy about the idea. Later that year, we married. This past Wednesday, J**** said, referring to that time, that he had felt that "staying was a sacrifice, but I looked around and thought, there's no way you and these kids can make it without me, so I stayed. It was a sacrifice. It wasn't what I really wanted to do." This was the first time I had heard that he viewed that time, or any time since, as a sacrifice.

When we filled out the ENs, his were (at that time) sexual fulfillment, affection, recreational companionship, attractive spouse and admiration.

His description of me is frequently that I'm "gorgeous", "beautiful" and "just need to lose some weight". I am capable of many physical activities he listed as 5's and 6's on his recreational companionship questionaire, do yoga regularly, joined a gym with him last year and love outdoor activities, bicycling, hiking, camping, hula hooping, etc. The problem has been getting him to do them with me. Oddly, after his decision to leave and my reluctant effort at accepting you can't hold onto someone who wants to go, he invited me to learn archery and Saturday we did that, had a great time, I was fairly good for someone who'd never gotten to hold a bow (but always wanted to), and now, both that and Dance Central 3 (an interactive dance video game) are both on the schedule for December. I've been asking him to do these things for at least 2 years, during which time the bear bow and the game machine just lay there waiting.
So I am quite capable and, other than weight, still turn more than a few heads, including younger ones. This weekend he said he wants nothing more from me than approval. His words. Please keep in mind that, according to him, "When you say I've hurt you, you're saying I'm the kind of guy who hurts people. I think I'm a good guy who's doing his best. Don't criticize me like that, it hurts!" I ask how I'm supposed to let him know when something hurts and he says to write him. I do and he still says I have hurt him, using statements such as (for example) "when you say we're going to go out hiking and then we don't, I feel hurt", which according to what he's plainly said, means I am criticizing him. I've even said "if I can't tell you what hurts me, how can you prevent hurting me?" He just blinks and often changes the subject, telling me of some way I've hurt or neglected him in the past, rather than let me know how we can do better, either right now, or in the future.

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As my age and ability are pertinent to my situation, I've put up a page with dated, un-retouched photos. Also couldn't resist adding a little "interests" page & guestbook.

Thank you all for taking the time to respond, too.

***EDIT***

Last edited by Ariel; 11/26/12 09:32 PM. Reason: Link to personal page removed for safety online
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What snooping techniques do you have in place? Keylogger, spyware on his phone?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.




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