If we do the online program will we get help with our communication in the 1st month? We have read LB, HNHN, but we are both electric fences right now and it's raining like Hell. We need a mediator to straighten us out and bring clarity. Will we have email access to Harley immediately? My spouse doesn't seem to trust anyone else but after listening to mbr a lot, he does trust him.
we need help this month so we don't ruin our oldest's last Christmas at home. Can't afford counseling and have to make serious decisions immediately.

If you do the online program, you will get a coach assigned to you who will speak by telephone to each of you individually. Also, yes, you will have access to Dr. Harley in the private forum immediately. His replies are often a day or two delayed, so be patient. However, you can always ask your coach for help as well.

We purchased the program and found it to be excellent for keeping us on track with our lessons and whenever we hit a difficult patch. You can use the private forum even after the year's paid program is over.

LWH-Thanks for your input.

By the way... I am the wife of HopefulGuy. Melody Lane told him to have me come here and post. I have been here for a while, just muddled in what to say. We are going to start the online program immediately. I have felt unloved for my entire marriage and unsafe for most of it. I appreciate that he is posting to the forum. Is there a message for me?

Welcome to MB DQ.

How does your H do with meeting your EN?

He also mentioned you both are signing up for the online course. That is fantastic. Have you done this yet?

Yes. Just signed up for the online course today.

As far as meeting needs, I'm not sure. I think the online course will be helpful since I was not willing to do it without a 3rd party to clarify things when we get stuck. He has spent the last year hindering our progress by trickle truthing, IB (obsessing about other women), gaslighting, being mentally uncommitted. Can't be sure if it's uncommitted or just fighting over the definition of what "fidelity" really is. A few days ago when I referred to his habit of checking out women and hunting for female objects a "serious" problem, he said it is not "serious" or breaking "vows" or "infidelity" like porn or dating sites which he has quit going to. His most recent internet occurred 3 weeks ago after I discovered his youtube history on his cell phone, and called him on some pretty concerning stuff.

If all men think this way, then what is "fidelity"?
And, I didn't marry just anyone. I married a supposed Christian who couldn't live without me, who promised to be faithful, god-fearing, committed, a good father, and to top it off, he had been my best friend for 9 years. In fact, I was his MAIN friend since teenage years. Wow. I don't think he has any understanding of what it means to be "loyal, faithful, promise-keeping, committed to vows." I guess he thought that you are those things as long as she doesn't have intimate emotional needs that are HARD for you to meet. Or I guess you are loyal until you run into (focus on) something shinier, prettier, thinner, better to compare her to. Then, the price of his loyalty becomes whatever he deems important and chooses to focus on, like a skinny body and pretty face, both with young, flawless packaging. Now, his original desire for you would have never even happened if he had been aware of the "qood stuff." But now all he is struggling with wanting the "good stuff" constantly. His eyes and brain are used to "the Hunt".
Yes, I have been told his within the last week. That since he has destroyed his brain etc. with the contrast effect and other poor habits, he is afraid that he will never be satisfied with me. He's just praying for that "romantic love threshold" to make his overlook the "good stuff" and overlook my "flaws". He wants to know if Harley would say that he should let me go to someone who is worthy of me and can really love me. He even thought we should do that before paying for the online program. Yes, I now wonder the same.

How's he doing on my emotional needs? My highest emotional need currently is to feel safe, loved, appreciated and admired. And I just don't. My second would be that I could have a spouse who was solid. And I don't. Just like I can't provide him with his idea of the perfect female package, I'm not sure that he can provide me with any of those other things right away. But I believe that behavior and character can change more easily than a genetic body type or inevitable aging.

And I feel powerless.

DQ, you will get support from your coach in the online program. And you will be able to communicate with Dr. Harley on the private forum. Both will be valuable resources. You can even email the show and get on the radio show.

For now, try and focus on creating a pleasant conversation during your UA time together. I know that will be hard, but the alternative is worse.

Try reading this article about the Friends & Enemies of Good Conversation Here I had such a hard time steering clear of painful topics that I finally started using the conversation worksheet in Five Steps to Romantic Love to track the good ones and the bad ones.

You and your H will have to create a whole new marriage where you will feel safe and cared for. It IS possible. One step at a time.

He sounds like he is still involved in an active affair. Is he? Has the affair just gone deeper underground?

These are the type of things active waywards say.... and that would concern me....

What are you doing to insure he's accountable for everywhere he goes and tracking everyone he talks to? aka EP's, (Extraordinary Precautions)

You mentioned he has a thread started?? or did I mis-read that? If he does, can you link it so I can find/read it?

Her spouse is 1HopefulGuy from the MB 101 forum: Here

Thanks LWFH

After reading his thread, I understand what you're dealing with.

You have a husband constantly committing emotional/visual infidelity and wants to call it a brain reprogramming issue.

I consider it adultery.

Matthew 5:27-30 would confirm that too....

I'm sorry you find yourself here.

There is hope...
But, Hope is not a plan...

MB has a plan, if you can both use it and follow it.

It's a narrow path, but yes, it's a path that leads to recovery...

Papabear, he is attending 12 step meetings for his gawking problem, if you can believe that. Please go read his thread starting on 10-24. He was trying to gaslight me for about a month and only stopped it this weekend. He is a practiced bullsh** artist.

Can you share more avout this information you discovered three weeks ago?? Your H is claiming he's been porn free, etc. for two years and I'm having a hard time buying it...

HPB-
I am not ignoring you. Each time I get to a computer to post, I have so much trouble being concise. I do believe him that he has probably not intentionally seen "porn" in the last 2 years. He has spent almost our entire marriage in mental fantasyland and has continued this even throughout the last year, despite his telling me that he was committed to the marriage. Thank you for posting to him and for pushing. In the last week since ML and you and others have challenged his thinking, he has started to realize that maybe he's not always right about everything and that he can't get away with lying to himself and me ever again. He just doesn't know what a healthy marital relationship looks like, and it would really help him to know how other good husbands think and behave. It doesn't do much good for me to tell him since I am a woman. Calling him out on his BS is really great. He doesn't think it is BS if he thinks it or feels it. It is truth to him. He is not in the practice of questioning his own thoughts and behaviors. I will follow with more information.

As you read more about the MB Program and start implementing the program, you'll discover that your H's fantasyland is not unique.

I suspect he twists his stories around to make you feel that somehow his behaviors are partially/completely your fault. He's a practiced manipulator. Anyone that want's to protect their porn/adultery will go to any length to do so, and it's easy to see he's done this well through his lifetime. Again, this is not unique. But it's very wrong.

I look forward to hearing more from you.

Thank you so much! When I read the things you say my brain lights up like a Christmas tree because of all of the truth. We're you and ML eavesdropping on us last night? I think I hear an echo.

I Linked a thread for your H to read and I'm wondering if you read it too?

I'm going to link it here ---> LINK to Extraordinary Precautions thread

You both need to have a good understanding of what allows your H to commit his adultery and eliminate the conditions.... It's all explained in the thread. This needs done in order to begin moving forward to the meeting of EN's and eliminating LB's...

I'm sure you have a great many emotions swirling around, tell us what can we do to help you with your questions.

I agree. We have limped along for a year because his behaviors are done in secret and usually at work. I don't think that he has ever actually done porn at work, but he replaces one obsessive behavior with a different form of obsessive, lustful behavior. It doesn't take much for him to have lustful desires, as it has been a hobby/obsession for him. As each behavior comes to light, I am more shocked and humiliated for him and petrified for our financial/marital future. I am further dependent because he wanted me to quit my job for EN of AS/FC which makes me even more vulnerable. Then to find out that he is risking his job over clothed women fantasies? In fact, half of my frustration is that he wouldn't do porn, but would waste hours at work looking at Very Young Females. That necessitates downloading and copy/paste photos onto documents. The takes a lot of dishonesty, selfishness and deceit IMO, and his own pleasure is all that seems to matter when he feels low. His blaming is that he has to get his fix from other women because I am not AS. He will state this in roundabout ways, which causes an extreme emotional response in me. (I have ordered that machine to try to learn to control my responses.) I could go on... On his thread he posts all that he has done to change, as if he was the willing initiator. NOT. He overlooks how much pleading it took from me for him to complete the task. Over 3 months ago, we came up with a preliminary EP/JC list.(I had read your thread.TY)He has still not completed several tasks on the list, and when I mention it, he complains that I am not appreciating all the changes he has made, behaviors he has eliminated and that he has eliminated the worst habits. He gives excuses for why the EP/JC list item is too difficult. Repeatedly over the last year, as he would tell me he is committed and working on the marriage, I am blindsided by some "little" behavior and then ridiculed for being picky and ungrateful for those things he has quit. Like when he argued with me that looking at women is not breaking his marriage vows. I think he REALLY believes that lie. My fear is that my WH thinks he will die if he can't look at attractive women, and that he will be depressed for the rest of his life without it. What position does that put me in if he chooses to see his life that way? So I guess both of us may be wasting our time. This is my life he is messing with, but caring only about his. And boy, I sure don't want to live with someone who is depressed because I don't have the Ferrari to fill them up. Maybe I should prepare my kids now for the fact that dad will be continually cycling depending on the youth and beauty of his surroundings?
Anyway, maybe things can change if he gets over this addiction. Maybe I am nuts for being so patiently codependent for the sake of my kids? (END RANT)

Originally Posted By: Dr Harley
extraordinary precautions

Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on your husband's willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Your resentment, defensiveness, and questions regarding the wisdom of staying in your marriage are all very reasonable -- unless your husband makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband. As your husband proves himself to you, your resentment will fade, and your questions will be answered. here
_________________________

The quote above is why I am doing the online program. I am trying every opportunity for us to learn how to achieve a healthy relationship. But ultimately, I have accepted my own reality; living in a marriage with a disrespectful, ungrateful, unwilling partner is something I SHOULD NOT tolerate and the constant stress of my relationship being shaky is not good for my health or for my children.