Enjoy those little ones and keep us posted on your talk.

I understand completely. Just know that with time even the worst triggers affect you less and less.

Enjoy the kiddos!!!

When you discuss again, just focus on the solution and keep it positive.

Hey guys
It took us a few days to have our talk and the talk has lasted several days.
I let FWW know how her reverting to old habits was hurting me and our recovery. I asked her to remember that she has to be very careful on-line. She was so remorseful and apologetic stating that she did not consider my feelings and that she knows she should have.

Doing this with out LB's is a hard task. I am still learning how to communicate my thoughts w/o them.

We talked about our EP's and what she will do to tighten hers up so this will not happen again. She has given me all of her pass words and is not going to send privet messages to OS friends. The others are her phone which is along with mine left out in the open to charge and we both have access to each other's.

FWW and I have talked for the last two days and will again today. She is still reading SAA and we discussed what she had been reading so far. I tried to get her to see how important completely understanding the concepts will help make implanting them seem more natural for her.

Her love of the outdoors is what attracted me to her in the first place, well... that and legs that seemed to go right on up to her neck!!

We discussed her being on these sites. She goes there because of her passion for the outdoors.

She does understand why I'm bothered by her communicating to OS friends.Phone calls, text, social sites and e-mail all are potential hazards for her. Forgetting to delete a text conversation on POSOM's birthday is how I found out.

Her EP's are:

NC w/ POSOM for life

Never have IC w/OS friends

Access to phone and all passwords

All computer passwords

No RC w/OS, either w/me or alone

The last two are the ones we are trying to improve. She had it in her mind that since she will "NEVER" have another A she did not see all the EP's as necessary anymore.

That's what we are still discussing, EP's are for every area of her life including her hobbies. This is not a one time fix all and done, but the way we are going to care for each other and protect our marriage from now on.

She agreed with that and want's to keep me and our marriage in a safe place from now on.

Her EP's are basic and I originally included them in a letter I gave her after D-Day. FWW says she is willing to work on these to safe guard our marriage. It seems that I need to be more specific and detailed. I am still trying to get her to start her own thread for help maybe after this she will see the benefit in it.
That's where we are now.

She shouldn't be on those forums if she can't have the boundaries to not send private messages to OS members.

Dr. Harley says to ELIMINATE all avenues that can lead to an affair. Take away the opportunity that allows affairs to start.

Agreed.

I think when FWS's are very remorseful they have it in their heads that they truly would NEVER have another affair; they've suffered the consequences of it already and think they know the dangers and would not even be tempted again.

That may actually hold true for the first year or two after reconciliation after they get through withdrawal, because there is such strong motivation on both parts to save the marriage. This is probably a large part of your wife's not truly considering EPs as being a big deal as you do, WLE. (Besides your being the one who suffered the betrayal.) However, it's important to establish those strict boundaries. After a few years into recovery, even if the marriage is better than ever, the principle still holds true that weak boundaries allowed the affair partner in. It's important to not go back to old habits!

You guys are doing the right things - just stay on track. I will add though that it seems to be taking her an awfully long time to read through the material. Maybe that should be made more of a priority than visiting outdoorsy sites. Once she gets through the books, etc... she will understand much better the ins and outs of the program and why it is necessary to keep these boundaries tight.

BH

FWW and I discussed this at length again today and she now sees that not only is it dangerous ground for her but violates the rule of care and undermines my sense of safety.

I listened to a radio clip on enabling this week, it stung.

I am trying to correct this flaw in me but haven't done such a good job. I know she loves to read the post there, she now knows I don't want her to send ANY private messages for ANY reason to ANY OS not blood related.

It is now a part of her boundaries, No private messages to OS on outdoor forums or any other way.

Thank you

My head is on such a swivel I sometimes miss the obvious.

Sd
Thanks for the vote of confidence.

Had that conversation today also and she understands how important EP's are to her.

I tried to explain my concerns to her and she repeated it back to me and asked for clarification to be sure she understood.
I guess she has read more than I thought.

Her pace is killing me though. She said she will try harder to get it done so we can start the work book.

I had some baggage left over and was able to clear it out with her about what triggered me and why. I should have done all of this at the beginning but thought I could skip this step.

This is why we are here for you and you're doing so well.

So what will make you feel safe? That's what she needs to do.

Would you feel better if you had a joint account? With your and her name?

This is actually a great way to solve this issue, if you are enthusiastic about it. Make up some sort of Mr&Mrs screenname with you both having full access... and this way it is totally transparent that she is married, that you are in this together, etc... This way if she does receive and PMs, it should be to the both of you and you will know it!

Set a goal together as to when she will get the material read. Even 30 minutes a day is faster than the rate she's going at now.

And yeah... no skipping steps! It never works out well when we try to do that...we end up having to go backwards before going forwards again.

What am I missing, wle? Why is she on these sites at all? She shouldn't be on a site that puts her in the position of communicating with other men.

I agree maritalbliss. H and I are both outdoor enthusiasts and neither of us have ever participated in online forums about our hobbies. If I have a question I might google it and come up with some forum discussion about it for the answer/opinion, but I have never had online presence anywhere but here.

Point it, its not necessary to engage in forum activity for any reason. If its not necessary then why do it at all, especially if it offers a risk to your marriage?

My H has had that attitude of, after going through all this I would NEVER have another affair, wouldn't even think about it, so it doesn't really matter if we have walls or not I just wouldn't do it. I have always told him that his attitude that he is in control is the scariest, most dangerous thing of all! When a spouse thinks they can rely on willpower, that is dangerous. Not saying your's does and that you are not doing a lot to protect your M, just referencing that mindset.

BH
A deserted island with no internet?

Short of that continue to remember she has to have boundaries w/ OS at all times.
She stated and I confirmed that I have all of her pass words and she has not tried to hide anything from me.

I don't mind the sites she is on I know about them.It is when she went past just reading and posting general, public comments to sending the private message to congratulate a guy that rattled my cage.
I didn't check that area and was disappointed she had done this. I assumed she knew this would be crossing the line. She does now.

Sd
I don't care for the outdoor forums at all and only started reading them to see what she posted after D-day.

Until I started reading on MB I had never even looked at any forum of any kind much less post anything.

I do like the idea of letting people know up front she is married though.

I told her that her pace in reading the material gives me the since of being in limbo and that is not where I want to stay.

A-men to never skipping steps! I held us back by thinking I was protecting her from something when all I was doing was prolonging the pain and retarding our recovery.

I corrected that also by going back and getting clarification on something that has bothered me for 14 months.

The original text conversation I found between FWW and POSOM was so sexually explicit there was NO WAY It could possibly have come from the woman I had been married to for 29 years.

It was.

I thought that was how they talked to each other on the phone and in person. I had to ask. She said only in her text and that was just to keep him interested in seeing her when he comes to GA. I should have asked her this in the beginning but held it back incorrectly thinking it was not a big deal.

So we spent one more tear filled afternoon poking holes in each others LB. I got it all out in that last ( HARD TALK) and am never going to bring up her A again.

There is a movie quote that captures this rule for me.

" Never get off the boat"

MB
She has been on these sites for years. I knew about them but thought she knew better than send private messages to OS members now.
They are sites where the members talk about the sport. Whats biting, whats moving in the woods, who's dog is better and post pic's of successful hunts or fishing trips etc.
When she told me she had sent the private message that's what I didn't know about. I took it to be a safe avenue for her to talk about her hobbies.
I didn't think about it that way until now. Her post have always been public so have all of the responses.
Until now.
This is not the site the A was spawned from so my pea brain did not recognize the danger until she stated that she had shot the guy a message about his deer pic's.

Going to hold you to this!!!!

This is where we are struggling.
FWW will talk to a post about her hobbies.
Until we found MB we had such terrible IB that we had not done any of our RC together in years. To satisfy her need to talk about them she started going on these forums.
Other than this one I have never been to any forum. The RC's I enjoyed I did alone. I didn't have the need to talk to anyone about it.
FWW has a HUGE need to talk about her RC. I try to fill that need as much as possible and since I am the one who got her into it I can but I guess since I don't have a passion for the sport she seeks out those who do.
It is the private message that she sent to the OS member where I have the problem.

FWW finished SAA and as we discussed it she stated that she realizes now how her sending that message was breaking her EP's and thought it was just innocent and being friendly at the time.

FWW understands the danger and how uncomfortable I am with this type of behavior. Dropping old bad habits and replacing them with new good ones is going to take time and diligent care. Fww as been reading the forum a lot more than I thought and also from the MB site at work.

She is starting LB and we will read this one together.This will be the third time for me but I need all the extra help I can get.

I asked her again if she would consider starting her own thread so she could get even more help, for the both of us. I shared with her how I would rather have someone here who is pulling for us and our MR thump my ear when I veer off the path than hurt her or our MR by doing something harmful.

FWW said she is afraid of the responses and even though she will never know who they are she can't sit down and wright about what she did because of her guilt over hurting me and the shame of even having an A. I did not try to push her just let her know that every one on here wants to see us fully recover or they would not be here helping as much as they do.

Exactly: we want your marriage to succeed and be exceptional! I understand that it's hard for FWS's to post a lot of times but it is very beneficial when they do.

Us FBS's get thumped when we need it too - not just FWS's!

Glad she understands how she needs to keep those EPs in place.
I hope she gets through Lovebusters quickly so ya'll can move on to HNHN. Both are necessary but it felt good to both H and I when we moved into the positive things we could do for each other.

Sd

We have read HN/HN and you are so right the positive things are defiantly where the fun is!

If I think my FWW looks sexy curled up on the love seat

by the fire place

reading a book on marriage

Have spent too much time on MB or am I just old?

Probably both!

Neither! What's not to love???? Your spouse - learning all about how to make your marriage last forever in such a fantastical way - should put a smile on anyone!!!