Easy, guy! We're on your side so don't go shooting the messengers! But when responses bug you it's often because you're being told something that you don't want to admit to yourself.

But I digress. Lexxxy seems to have answered your question quite well.

Why? He can plan A for years if he wants. Dr Harley mentions 2 years and longer several times.
Depression after an affair can last several months.
If he keeps depositing love units (which he can't do if she is depressed) and avoid love bank withdrawals (which he can do) then eventually he may win her back

Thanks, JK. Dr. Harley has been explicit in mentioning that the fog/affair in her mind can last as long as the actual EA went on, which, in my WW's case was 11 months. My timeline is currently March, but Dr. Harley states that plan A is based on how long the BS can go before their spouse's love bank balance gets too low. Right now she isn't really withdrawing much, and my own depression has pretty much subsided. So my main timeline is 6 months. But I am willing to consider going longer if their is evidence that progress is being made and she is on the path to come out of it, which is really where my question starts. I read somewhere here that one would know when there WS is getting to the point where they are becoming fully withdrawn from the affair and are open to possible reconciliation by the fact that they would be constantly sleeping and not doing anything.

Right now my WW is doing this to an extent, but not fully, so I think she is headed there, but still has a way to go. I am really looking for a FWW's comments on this subject to get a better feel for when I could recognize this state, mostly as information to help avoid a false recovery. Today she was actually very upbeat with me laughing very easily at comments I made and having some good intimate conversation. So today was an exception over the past week, but one that allowed me to make some deposits.

It is obvious to me that she is allowing me to make small deposits, but she gets annoyed easily by very minor things resulting in a withdrawal on occasion, which is why I feel I'm depositing 3 units her, and withdrawing 2 units there. If she ever gets to the point where she will let me fill her intimate EN's more regularly, I know I can get her to fall back in love with me in a couple of months. For now, I have to wait out the EA withdrawal. It seems the medication she is on is helping mellow out her depression and allowing me those brief moments to get some units in. Most of the time, though, it,s a stalemate. I just need to find ways of not annoying her, but she is making it as difficult as possible right now.

Northwood, I wasn't trying to be snippy, it's just that I have had these conversations over and over. I'm doing what I can, but she will only allow so much, and isn't adhering to my EP's. That's why I get frustrated when everyone tells me to stop this and that. I can't right now, she has ignored my demands in that regard. But the EA looks to be very much killed off on his end. I will continue to stay on top of the situation, though. Not letting my guard down at all.

Just got done reading some threads including runningboy's and the assault the ambush (some others as well). As any who have read my thread know, I'm stuck with a WW that is dragging her fog out over time. It's been just about 3 months since exposure, and Dr. Harley's advice was to keep doing the plan A. After reading some of those threads, I wonder if there is anything I should do at this point to press her to lose the affair in her mind. I see her go through bouts of depression daily, followed with some brief happy moments, including a few the past couple of days where I have been able to maker her genuinely laugh at things I was saying or doing (last night she even looked at me with the "I think I like this guy" eyes that I haven't seen in like forever).

She still sleeps on the couch and doesn't wear her ring, and she hasn't been as willing to go beyond small talk the last couple of days, which I think is the depression. I'm holding up fine, beyond being impatient and longing for this fog to fully lift. So I am sitting here wondering if there is any thing I should be doing to try to push her forward, or just wait her out as I continue to find ways to have conversation and laughs with her?

The gist of what I gather I should be doing in my current circumstances is 1) avoid LB's as best I can, 2) do NOT talk about the relationship or divorce, and 3) be a nice, happy guy trying to fill her EN's when she allows me to do so. Should I also avoid DJ at this point as well (I assume yes, which was a problem for me the last time we talked about our issue the weekend before Thanksgiving).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as JK pointed out, I think making deposits will be tough until she comes out of depression. Is it likely the fog will be lifted when she comes out? Are there any good threads someone can point me to where a WW went through a long affair fog, and finally came out, please point me there. I'm impatient by nature, and this wait is driving me nuts. Thankfully, God has given me the strength to rise above my depression, and I've been very productive at work this week, and hope to keep getting better going forward. But examples of what I am going through would greatly aid me in this.

Thanks.

I can add that your note recalled two thoughts for me:

1. Make sure to keep working on you, and cleaning up 'your side of the street' (no LBs, only deposits)

and

2. (I think it was GloveOil who taught me this one) During the fog, to think of all the 'Plan A' acts as pebbles being dropped into a lake...it will take alot of pebbles piling up beneath to breach the surface, but although not seen under the water, they are there and piling up. Once they break the surface, the mound seems to grow exponentially.

Hang in there, it will get better!

That's kind of been my thought. I like the analogy. It's just hard sitting here waiting for the moment to come. I guess I just need to find positive reinforcement from time to time to keep me going, so thanks for that.

Falcon I know exactly what you are going through as its the same for me at the moment as well, it's all part of the roller coaster. The one thing I have learnt is to just keep going and throwing those pebbles. I find my WW is very inconsistent with her behaviour/attitude towards me one day up one day down but this is the ride. Our counciller has told me to keep going and create the safe warm friendly environment at home for her and slowly she will relax and communicate n open up more.

I follow your thread along with mralias as your both very similar to my situation, and just keep plugging away with no expectations

I guess we need to start the longterm fogged out WW club here. I'll have to check and follow your thread and his and compare notes, so to speak. I'm just glad my wife hasn't acted irresponsibly in other areas; i.e. Taking off with the kids or milking our accounts. I really wonder if she would ever actually file for the D herself. And I definitely know what you mean by the ups and downs. One moment she's all mum, barely responding in conversation, the next it's like the old days when we would just talk and talk.

Thanks for the support. I think we all need it with the WW's that stay in the fog for extended periods of time. I honestly don't expect mine to come out for several more months, but I am always hopeful that something will trigger her to pop out sooner. Some guys get lucky and the OM just goes and tosses them under the bus and they snap out. Mine got tossed to the side, but not under, so she has been clinging to the hope of him waiting for her. I think she may be starting to realize that he doesn't want her, and the withdrawal is really hitting home at times. I just wish these WW's would snap out of it.

You guys that have fogged WW's do you still have a key logger on your PC. Many a WW do not defog simply getting their OM fix from checking the OM FB, openning and re reading old hidden emails from the OM. Same for looking at old texts. Also are there any hidden OM gifts, momentos?

I don't want to detail, just in case, but I have multiple methods of checking what I need to check, and my WW isn't communicating with him. She confided with her enabler that she feels it helps her case to not make any more contact (case in terms of child custody). Plus, I think part of her depression comes from the fact he's not communicating with her. Her whole mindset has been that she will wait until she can financially bale (likely a year+ away) and hope that he still wants her when she shows up at his door. Fat chance, but it's this little nugget that keeps it alive in her mind to what little extent it still is.

She's also been sloppy on a number of occasions. So if she has managed to hide something in some way that I can't find it, then it's a bit of a miracle. I will say this, since it took well over a month after exposure for me to get more info on his side of the fence, I am prepared to go nuclear if I do see any contact. At this point, the level of exposure I did was apparently enough to get him out of the picture. As I have stated before, he was avoiding her a good bit before I knew, which leads me to believe he didn't really want her, or had someone else lined up. She told me that they didn't go PA because they both thought it wasn't right. Yeah, BS. He met with her, and they knew that wasn't right. If he didn't go PA with his one chance in months (and 1000 miles separating them) then it tells me he wasn't as interested as she thought he was.

OK, I need the vets to chime in on my following questions. I am planning on getting an MB counseling session for me, to start out. My WW has told me on a number of occasions that she will not see a marriage counselor (yes, I know the MB's are coaches). I believe that, like MrAlias, my WW would be more likely to do this with a female coach than male, but I understand that Steve's expertise is infidelity. So question 1) who would be better for my situation? 2) All I see on the MB site is info on Steve, so how do I get to coach with Dr. Chalmers if that is the route I go? 3) Is either better at getting a reluctant spouse on board? Or are they both about the same?

I'm also wondering if it's too soon for the wife, as she is going what she is going through now, fog and depression, or can they still make a difference even at this stage?

I really feel that the best advice I have gotten has been from Dr. Harley himself, and feel that one of the MB coaches would be able to take my case forward much better, especially since I would be able to confide further details that I am avoiding right now in case she finds, or has found, this thread. Seeing how MrAlias has gotten some good results already, I am anxious to get personalized help on this level.

Thanks for the input.

falconcrap, I am just guessing here, but I wonder if your wife wouldn't do better with Dr Chalmers? I think Steve does real well with the foghorns, but your wife is simply emotionally withdrawn, very much like MrAlias' wife. Do you think she would react better to a female? I know Dr Chalmers has been real effective with other couples here, such as PapaBear and MamaBear.

You reach Dr Chalmers the same way you would Steve, via the coaching center link.

ML, I do think she would be more likely to work with a female. The psychiatrist she is seeing about her ADHD and depression is female. I believe she would likely think a man would just be full of it and not able to understand her feelings.

My biggest concern with this route has always been the possibility of spending the money and her just not wanting to do this. But I think I am ready to at least have a session for myself to get the best plan going that I can. I am seeing some small things, but her recent deeper dive into depression has giving me mixed feelings on what I am seeing. The most encouraging thing the last 3 nights has been my ability do something relatively funny (I've always been a funny guy, so it comes naturally) and seeing her laugh easily and naturally like she used to. I want to get a session in before Christmas and see if she may be open to something while we are off the whole following week+ time frame.

Has your wife been screened/cleared medically? Hormonally?

Pep, which screening are you referring to? I've repeatedly asked her over the last couple of years to get her hormones checked. I do know they ran some tests on her, but she hasn't been forthcoming with the results. I had believed that her lack of desire for SF since DD was born in 08 was either hormones, weight, or a combination thereof, and I've tried to get her to check hormones, since she has also had difficulty with getting the weight off despite eating a much better diet and doing a lot of exercise.

If you are referring to another test, please let me know.

Thanks.

Just a little note on what I have seen the past couple of days...the depression symptoms seem to have faded a lot the last day or two. She has become much more agreeable and congenial with me. Lots of laughter generating comments between the two of us, as well as some of the looks she used to give me in the day. I'm keeping expectations at bay and not reading too much into anything, but I'm starting to think she may be turning the corner.

When I get my session scheduled and get to talk with either Dr. Chalmers or Steve, I will certainly get their feedback on what I am seeing. About the only thing I am hoping for now is that she is in a mindset to be open to talking and following the advice of one of the MB coaches. I won't be hurt or upset if she isn't, as the first one will be just for me and to help me maximize what I am doing. But if she does go for it, it will certainly be a sign that progress is already under way. Either way, I need to check and see when I can best get my appointment and get this going.

Thyroid screening. If her menses are irregular, estrogen/progesterone screening.

Hmm...trying to remember if that was one of the tests she had done. What specific symptoms are you thinking could be tied in with this?

Look, it's probably not going to be a factor here .... however, if I was the RNP treating your wife, I'd check for hypothyroidism. Just to rule it out. Chances are HIGH that all tests are normal and your wife is just slow to recover herself. Google for hypothyroid symptoms.

There may be something else she is hiding which is causing her distress. <~~~ Most likely reason.

Your comments are interesting. When we had our conversation back Thanksgiving, the OM was mentioned, so I think that set her back a little. I haven't mentioned him or our relationship since that conversation.

See my post from earlier today. She seems to have come out of the depression. I don't know if she has gone to a stepped up dosage of Strattera yet or not, but about mid-day Saturday, was when I saw a sudden shift in her mood. The kids came downstairs with water color pallets in hand wanting to do some painting, and I set it up and watched and helped them. She later came down and saw me working with them, and she came over and watched my DD painting and a had a big smile and looked at me while doing so. Since then she's been totally different than she has since the conversation. Even better than before. Yesterday, she showed no signs of depression at all. I've seen no contact, but, as I noted, she is supposed to be stepping up her Strattera dosage, and it might have been this weekend for her to do so, if I remember correctly.

I'm definitely trying to keep an eye out on any possible communications, and seeing none. Quite frankly, she's spending less time doing the emails and texts, and spending more time either reading on the iPhone of PC, or actually doing other things, such as washing her vehicle, doing clothes, and spending a little more time with us. I'll need to see if this continues, and is therefore a trend, or something like what she was doing before where she would go in and out of this state.