That's wonderful

Another encouraging day transpired.

I am going to provide some details as a way for me to document, analyze and learn from what I've heard.

Mrs. Alias and I had a very nice honest and open conversation last night. We had to do more of our homework which was an EN feedback loop exercise and communicate AH(s).

During these exercises we talked about a great many things. We explained things from our perspectives and discussed ways to handle those differences � coming up with alternative choices to what we were currently doing.

Mrs. Alias didn�t list a whole lot of to-do(s) for me in her ENs and she said she was having a hard time coming up with some AHs. But after we talked a bit she did come up with some things I could work on.

(AH #1) I already spoke of � her fears being a passenger and the way I drive. Corrective action already in place. But what was nice is last night as we were talking about this AH #1 again she shared something related that she didn�t like. When she communicates or shows signs of fear my impulse is to �see a problem, fix the problem� (AH #2). But that isn�t what she�d like from me. She�d just like me to listen. As I explained my perspective as to why I did what I did we came up with an alternate behavior for me. Instead of trying to fix it I simply empathize with her and, at times, offer up my services to help in any way I can. That way she knows she�s being heard, doesn�t feel pressured to fix something that is very difficult for her to handle and she can take me up on my offer if she wants. She feels cared for but not lectured or insulted or pressured.

AH #3. Related to the kids and my need to drone on and on when I�m trying to teach them a way to correct a poor behavior. I need to let it rest. It was hilarious � �You�re telling the kids to let it rest �. Yet you�re the one who won�t let it�. I was rolling. I was aware � but my FOO kicked in and away I�d go. So my alternate behavior is to do the one thing I learned outside of MB in another learning environment and that is to tell myself to STOP. Stop, think about my reaction and make a conscience effort to respond instead of the instinctual desire to just yammer something out from my subconscious.

I have listed these 3 AHs on a cheat sheet and placed them in the bottom of my lunch bucket along with my own defined LB cheat sheet, along with a couple of other ones related to Friends and Enemies of Good Conversation and the 4 Guidelines to Successful Negotations. I am definitely a visual person as I try to use my photographic memory (that isn�t so memorable anymore) to remember things. Sigh. I hate getting older.

I told Mrs. Alias last night that I am SO MUCH HAPPIER than I have been in a long time. She responded she was glad.

Melody. I�m cracking a bit of a smile.

I figured you would do great if you were just put on the right path. You are thorough, smart and articulate. You are doing just great!! And don't let yourself get disappointed if you run into some rough patches. My H and I have a great marriage today and we had a big fight in the grocery store when we were learning the POJA. I almost had to kick his butt in the store!

Mel,

Thanks for the kind words.

I was telling my sister how well it was going and she asked me what to attribute it to.

I said MB is a sound program, a great foundation. I went on to say that I believe both her and I probably finally had had enough of being withdrawn and getting far too little out of the M. So we joined up and now we're in it like a team and it's going really well.

FYI my sister pointed me here some 10 years ago ... yet she's never really done anything to implement it in her M. How ironic. I gave her some incentive to join us.

Oh and yes I'll be wary of the rough patches.

I certainly don't feel like getting my butt kicked.

Wow, you two -- this is great. I just got done reading your post about "I'd love it if" on another thread, and I am impressed! For me it was a big journey to learn how to express desires in a way that was non-demanding and respectful. And it changes so much, doesn't it? As you progress further into positive love bank account balance territory, you'll find that you are both more willing to meet those requests, too.

Regarding the rough patches, Prisca and I have had a bunch of those, and one big reason for that has been the habit of retreating back to love busters when things seem rough. I'm also just extremely emotionally reactive (scored very high on Dr. H's personality test) and when we hit a bump in the road my first feeling is "It's the end of the world, she's never going to speak to me again, this is a crisis, I've got to do something" and I panic. You strike me as a more easy going guy who is probably not going to have that problem as much, so I'm hoping you guys have an easier time of it. But if you do hit any difficulties, retreat first back to the basics: calm down, no love busters.

Good stuff Markos, My W and I are the same regarding our reactions to issues. When things aren't going our way we take the poor choice ... stuff our feelings, clam up.

I can't count on one finger the number of times either one of us has ever had a real angry outburt or selfish demand. Our issues have been our inability to work a successful PORH. Using POJA is going to be a nice tool for us to work out our issues instead of stuffing them. Basically her and I need to bring a healthy Taker to the table.

With experience will come the realization that we've got each other's backs and best interests at heart.

We start our work on negotiating tomorrow night with Dr J.

MrA, I can't be more tickled to read your updates! What an amazing legacy to create for your kids!

I'm dying to ask... does your wife sleep on your shoulder again? I remember that was one thing that gave me so much hope back in the day, to read that and remind myself it is possible to live in peace like that. If not, it's okay, I know you have a lot of ways to express on the outside the peace in your hearts

She would except I'm plugged into my life support system as they like to call it when they tease. I have sleep apnea and have to use a CPAP. Couple that with carpael tunnel and the wrist braces I wear and snuggling while we sleep isn�t very pleasant. I look like I'm going to war or something. Gotta gear up to sleep.

I should probably be wearing the soft boots I wear for plantar fasciitis to bed but that�s just too much to take. What happened to my body?

It�s my hope that this new eating plan we�re doing allows me to lose enough where I could lose the CPAP. Down another pound today � only 30 or so more to go.

Hi there, MrAlias!

I want you to know that I haven't been to MB in ages. I heard you were here and that you were actually doing well and I came back just to read your story.

I am just thrilled (THRILLED) to hear your story and how things are finally improving for you now that you and your wife are committing to the MB plan.

So thrilled in fact, that I told your story to my H and FINALLY persuaded him to begin implementing the MB principles with me. We just ordered one of his short CD's where he gives an overview of the program. I've had HNHN and Lovebusters forever, and we are going to read (re-read in my case) them together. (We are talking about possibly getting the whole seminar in the spring, too!)

For now, we have committed the video, working through and discussing the EN questionnaire and LB worksheet, as well as at least 10 hours of UA time each week. I know we need 15-20, but I am optimistic that once he finds those 10 hours enjoyable (and once we move through more of the materials) we will increase them.

Right now, we have maybe 3. So 10 will be a huge improvement.

I am committing to getting back into shape, because I do know that's one of his top EN's (I had gotten quite fit and then we miscarried about this time last year, and it's been hard for me to come back from it).

Anyway, I wanted t let you know how absolutely inspiring and encouraging i found your story. My H has disliked Harley for years (sorry, Dr. H), so using your story as an example of how important it is to have and follow a good plan was really the first thing that has ever been motivating for him.

I will keep reading your thread with interest.

Telly!!! So nice to hear from you again. And what a wonderful thing to hear that my story is making a difference for you and your H.

I am sorry to hear about your miscarriage. We experienced the same thing between #1 and #2 and it was a very difficult time for us.

Great to hear you're getting in shape as well. It's a good feeling to get off the couch and do something and to know I can eat without starving and lose weight.

It's early morning and I'm stuck working ... late night issues with a code deployment. blech.

I have something I want to share that my wife and I just talked about with Dr Chalmers that I think is going to be huge and I hope it's something you and your H can discuss. I will do that when I'm more with it.

Check back soon.

So good to hear from you dear friend.

What a brutal weekend. I need to catch up on sleep.

Despite the work issues her and I had a wonderful time this weekend. Wrestling has started for our freshman high schooler and he pinned all 3 of his opponents in the weekend tourney. Wahoo!.

I want to provide Telly with some info that I think may pertain to her situation but before I submit a post I want to list out the 2 different types of resentment that Dr. Harley talks about. My W and I are to re-read that section in his book but we were unable (in the 5 minutes we had) to find it. Does someone have that part of the book handy they could post? And where can we find it?

Thx.

I know it is in Effective Marriage Counseling and in one of the articles here. Brainy found it in the articles recently. I will search for it and see if I can find it. It is about resentment types A and B. There are also some radio clips on it.

Hmmm. Dr Chalmers thought it was in one of the books we have. HNHN, LB or FILSIL.

If it's not I'd like to know that too ... otherwise we'd be on a wild goose chase.

If someone posts the contents of it then I can just provide it to my W.

Thx Mel.

Well, i can't seem to find it in the books, but here it is on the question and answer section:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5026b_qa.html

PS I am so proud of you and your wife.. Maybe someday.

Thanks Tired,

I have read that and will send it on to my W.

Empathy plays such a crucial part in a marriage. While I think a marriage could survive without it having it makes things so much easier.
How does one gain empathy if one doesn�t have it? By following the POJA. Hearing your spouse�s perspective is where you learn the truth behind their thoughts and feelings. It�s there that you learn how your actions hurt your spouse. To not only hear their thoughts but to actually seek to understand their feelings and pain � to empathize. In return no negative comments or persuading to change the spouses thoughts, just acceptance of their perspective. If they say it bothers them it bothers them. End of discussion.

While some LBs are more intense than others they still all do the same thing. They withdraw those love units and cause some form of pain for your spouse.

So cut to Friday and Dr Chalmers is taking us through POJA. My W and I had to come up with some Annoying Habits and communicate them to each other prior to our session. As such we talked about those AHs as part of POJA. And as an example we used the AH concerning my W�s diet soda consumption. We both shared our perspectives including validating the thoughts surrounding it being an AH for me. My concerns for it have several implications but we stuck with the health aspect of it.

While we were doing the brainstorming aspect of this my W had to stop and ask �
�I need to understand something. Is it the policy that regardless of what my H finds annoying I am going to have to eliminate it? If I have to do that I am going to resent him for it�.

Dr. Chalmers then used the AH I do as an example to explain the two kinds of resentment. I drive in rush hour everyday and thus I am comfortable around a lot of other cars. I am a pretty aggressive driver. When my wife is with me I know she�s uncomfortable being a passenger. She�s an aggressive driver too but being a passenger she�d like me to be more cautious. I get it. She was in a car accident, she�s not in control, etc. That has to be a horrible feeling.

�Mrs. Alias, when you�re in the car and he�s driving too close to the car in front do you have control of how it makes you feel?� No. �Right so if he decides he�s going to continue to drive that way what options do you have? You can just try to get used to it or seek therapy for your fears. But what really would happen if he continued to do that�. I�d hate him for it. �Exactly�.

My W stopped it right there and said �I get it�. Wow, it was an emotional moment for me. To actually hear my W say she gets it was huge. I was never able to explain that to her before� probably because I just didn�t get it. All those times having conversations with her not really knowing how to put it in perspective. There were always the phrases �having to give up everything� and �tit-for-tat�. Suddenly the POJA made a lot of sense to us both. And for me I suddenly understood the difference in the forms of resentment. The things I do intentionally that impact her. I have a lot of choices that could make things better and aid in eliminating her resentments of me.

Years ago I made a conscience choice to start paying attention to my driving when she was in the car with me when she explained her fear. I would do all I could to avoid the things that intentionally brought her harm especially when she had so few choices. I am embarrassed to say I allowed myself the excuse of withdrawal to stop doing what was necessary to protect her feelings for me after having done it prior to the withdrawal. I guess that is the definition of withdrawal.

The rest of the POJA example was just more affirmation of how well this process was going to work for us. Not doing anything until we have an enthusiastic agreement is the key. I think she was more at ease knowing she wasn�t going to have to give up anything until we discovered, agreed and implemented a better option.

I�m sure this example is a work in progress for her and I and it will be some time before we find the final solution. But I feel better just knowing we�re working together to find something we both will want to live with.

Hi MrAlias :),

I just wanted you to know that I e-mailed this to my husband a few minutes ago. We had talked into the wee hours last night and then again this morning. (I don't remember the last time we did that).

I think he will be able to relate to your post.

Thanks for sharing--and again, so happy for you, my friend.

Effective Marriage Counseling pg 112 - 113

What about Resentment?

One of the most common objections to the POJA is that it creates
resentment when it�s followed. I agree; it does usually create some
resentment. But far more resentment is created when it is not followed.
An illustration will help make this important point.

George is invited to watch football with his friend Sam. He tells
his wife, Sue, that he plans to accept the invitation. Sue objects.

If George goes ahead and watches the game, he�s guilty of independent
behavior. He is not following the POJA, and Sue will be resentful.
When George does something against the wishes of Sue, I call
her resentment type A.

If George follows the POJA and doesn�t accept Sam�s invitation,
George will be resentful. When George is prevented from doing something
because of Sue�s objections, I call his resentment type B.

Which type of resentment makes the largest Love Bank withdrawals:
type A or type B? The answer is type A, and that�s why the POJA
helps build Love Bank balances. I�ll explain.

When George violates the POJA, Sue has no choice but to feel
the effect of the thoughtless decision (Love Bank withdrawals) for
as long as memory persists�possibly for life whenever the event is
recalled. But when George follows the POJA, the negative effect is
limited in time. It lasts only as long as it takes to discover an enjoyable
alternative that is acceptable to Sue.

George lets Sue know how disappointed he is with her objection
but is willing to discuss other options. Sue wasn�t invited to watch
football and doesn�t want to invite herself to Sam�s house, so she
suggests inviting Sam and his wife to their house to watch football.
George calls Sam, he and his wife accept, and the new activity puts
an end to George�s type B resentment.

Type A resentment can last forever, but type B resentment stops
the moment a mutually enjoyable alternative is discovered. Those
with poor negotiating skills may have trouble seeing the difference
because they have not learned how to resolve conflicts. They may
feel resentment about a host of issues that have been unresolved in
their marriage. But after you teach a couple to negotiate successfully,
unresolved issues are minimized. Then it becomes clear to
them that the POJA helps build Love Bank balances by eliminating
type A resentment.