Duncanmac & Suse:<P>I ask you to PLEASE contact me at Disgrace99d@hotmail.com....if you wish total privacy..set up an account there in any name you wish...I just need to write you one paragraph....<P>This has passed over the edge. We need to stop this. Your friends have crossed over.<P>Take care,<BR>Dg99(H)

Hello D99,<P>Having seen your post tonite, I took the time to read again your posts of the last several weeks. While I appreciate your willingness to be sincere, I'm not often in agreement with your expressed beliefs of those writings.<P>Additionally, your final post to me on your previous thread was not encouraging. It certainly didn't offer me much motivation to write to you in a friendly spirit.<P>It's unclear to me what we might discuss in private that would be inappropriate to address in the Forum. I'm also unaware of the friends of which you speak or of any behavior that isn't here for all to see.<P>I don't understand what you mean in saying that "this has passed over the edge" or what you are recommending we need to stop.<P>As I've mentioned before, your angry expressions are disturbing for me and I often feel they are hurtful for others who participate here. I respect your right to post here and even accept that you've experienced things in life which would naturally cause anger. But I can't help but be wary based on your behavior here.<P>So, while I'd be willing to explore prospects for constructive correspondence between us, I'd request we take baby steps first.<P>I'll await you reply.<P>

My request was for one contact only. It is in reference to your compatriot Whodat.<P>I will withdraw this offer if you have no desire. <P>Dg99H

Compatriot? LOL... While I respect and even admire both DMac and Suse (among others), I am very much my own person. I will listen to reasonable conversations, and have even altered my own perceptions based upon well-thought out arguments. Quite likely why we have clashed so since the early days, when you vehemently refused to even consider any advice from myself as well as others.<P>I have nothing to hide, and stand by my assertions that your hatred is dangerous to many of those that come to this Forum emotionally raw in the aftermath of discovery. I have even conceded, on more than one occasion, that your views have value, in showing some of those here how NOT to heal a marriage. <P>If you have something to say to me, just say it. In public. I promise to give your thoughts all the attention they deserve.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die

This thread is ended..I will talk with the proper authorities..to seek assistance in this matter.<P>DG99(H)

WhoDat, D99d:<P>I'm assuming that this thread was in response to WhoDat's thinly-veiled assertion that it was D99 who left that "note" at Glenn's funeral.<P>For what it's worth, it was inappropriate for WhoDat to make that assertion. Carol didn't name anyone, and such an accusation is libelous (had WhoDat actually named D99d). If D99d didn't do that, then he has every reason to be upset.<P>With that being said, I've got a question for D99d.<P>You mentioned on the deleted thread that your marriage is much better. Is that true?? Have you healed the pain??? If so, it's great news. It just hasn't appeared to be the case based on your "angry" tone of the last couple week's posts.<P>Wishing you (and everyone else) a speedy recovery...<P>K<p>[This message has been edited by K (edited November 04, 1999).]

K:<P>I have to say it’s almost amusing... regardless of appropriateness or not, how can one anonymous person libel another? I <B>specifically</B> did not call out anyone by name in that thread, regardless of what I might think privately. It’s not really my problem if D99 suddenly has a guilty conscience (hence this thread beginning), although it would be a pleasant surprise to find he has a conscience at all.<P>I will say, K... you are one of the (if not THE) people I have the most respect and admiration for at this Forum. If you think it was inappropriate in THAT particular thread to say what I did, then in the spirit of that respect I do apologize to you AND to Carol. It doesn’t make the assertion any less valid, IMO, just inappropriate at that particular time and place.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited November 04, 1999).]

WhoDat:<P>I won't tell you that this wouldn't have been one of my first suspicions. And I completely agree with the "libel" aspect as well.<P>But, one of your main issues with D99d (and mine too) is that he seems to be stuck in a very "angry" phase. He claims that it's "righteous anger", but you see it as punishing, counter-productive abuse.<P>Now, your response to Carol's thread also had that same type of righteous, justified anger in it. That's my bottom line---I don't want you to start acting like D99d. The anger will eat you up (I believe that's your current signature line).<P>Although I was encouraged by D99d's post that his marriage is doing great, I'm disheartened to see him still so full of anger. I would have hoped that he would have begun to heal by now. I'm certain that he has the capacity to do so---I hope for his sake that it's sooner than later. Because no one deserves to live with that burden---and just because you've suffered infidelity doesn't mean you must remain the victim.<P>Take care.

K:<P>I thank you for your concern. Although I have learned (and changed) much about myself over the last couple years, I will freely admit I am quicker to anger than I would still like. Where previously, it had many triggers, I now seem to have it whittled down to a very few, and of course, a response to anger and hatred is one of them. I guess it really flares up when I see someone who just doesn’t realize how completely counter productive wallowing in their anger is, instead of using it to heal. I reacted with much the same short fuse to Tired Lady, for much the same reason, I believe. More for me to work on.<P>D99 just strikes me as far worse, since I see him actually trying to fan the flames of that hatred in others. I don’t like that, since people are so emotionally raw(and rightfully so) when they first come here, and IMO latching on to hatred is not the message to be sent. I held no anger towards him for sending these messages, since I felt they were too transparent to be taken seriously. But then he posted to Carol, and that deleted thread was one of the most tasteless things I have ever read. There, the anger DID surface, although I did not respond (Thanks, Chris... “Move along... Nothing to see here!” ). I hope he someday comes to see the errors of what he wrote. Carol’s similar description of the printout hit me in much the same way, with predictable reactions on my part. I hope whoever wrote THAT particular tidbit to her also comes to see the error of their ways, and can express their sorrow over that deed. These self-revelations may even happen at nearly the same time... who knows.<P>That’s what I see as the difference in the anger... I was angry at the DEEDS, not the person. It’s sometimes hard to distinguish between the two, but again... I continue to try.<P>FWIW, I too would like to see D99 come in and say he has not only forgiven his W, but begged her forgiveness for all he has put her through as well. That although the memories will always remain, the anger is gone, and all the efforts previously used to punish are now being used to heal the marriage. I don’t hold out much hope at this point in time, for many of the same reasons you are disheartened. Then again, we really know so little about how he conducts his RL, and only have his anger and hatred as shown here to go on. He could be far different at home, or may become so in the future. And if there is one thing that is certain, it the uncertainty of the future.<P><BR>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited November 04, 1999).]

yes....WhoDat,<BR>Selfishly, amidst my own resurfacing troubles, I've dug a hole and stuck my head in it. Your post reminds me of why I came here in the first place and why I found it so helpful. <P>For whatever reason, a majority of people who find themselves posting...are folks that have pursued painful & endless hours ......thoughtfully reviewing their personal responsibility in contributing to a less than wonderful marriage. Watching the initial posts from "the many" has been such a rewarding process. When folks own up to their shortcomings, let go of the anger and resentment and accept responsibility for the "YUCKY" outcomes, the world becomes a better place overall and the family union becomes unbreakable.<P>You, nor I, nor anyone here has agreed with everything "ALL" have said...but it's the manner by which people to choose to employ that makes the insightful advice WARM or COLD. Yes, I would agree that DG99 (whom I've never posted to directly before) is not always as thoughtful about how the post will be READ. <P>However, we can either be party and ENCOURAGE the dialogue , thoughtfully respond to back to it or ignore it. One would question the "ignore it" method and use the argument....there has been much hate in the world related to TURNING THE CHEEK.....but here, in almost safe MB land, I would say our success rate as a UNIT has been better when we use tempest to help resolve these issues. <P>Sometimes, we're not ready to hear and understand and sometimes we just don't have the foundation/wisdom or perspective to hear and understand.<P>Although I'd be proud to call you compadre', I think the more appropriate term might be "MB associate". <P>ps. nice to hear from you !!<BR>-Tina<P><p>[This message has been edited by TFloyd (edited November 04, 1999).]

This may be none of my business, and I mean no disrespect to Carol during this difficult time, but maybe it would have been better for her not to include that part of her message indicating that "one of us" on this forum sent that note to her. It's only natural for us to wonder who it could have been, and I think it would have been better for her to not even acknowledge it. In other words, that was information that was none of our business. When I read that someone from here was able to track her down (because of the information she'd voluntarily given) I was shocked. That's one of the beauties of this anonymous forum ------ our anonimity. Once that is lost, to me it because almost tainted and dirty. I guess I just don't want to know too much about anyone's personal business. <P>Again, I mean no disrespect to Carol, but that's the way I see it.

lark:<P>Um… K's answer below was better than mine anyway… big shocker. <P>Oh and Tina... Thanks! <P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited November 04, 1999).]

lark:<P>Carol wasn't tracked down by the use of the forum, per se. She and Glenn shared their email addresses here, and I'm sure that both of them had "off-board" conversations with several of the MB members.<P>I don't think you need to worry about your anonymity, unless you start to email participants.

As I read this thread, it occurred to me that perhaps the board is the only means by which Carol could reach the individual who left her that printout? <P>I would lean toward disagreeing that it shouldn't have been mentioned here, especially if it was a board member who sent it. Although we are anonymous here in most senses of the word, we are also a genuine community in many senses... a community that certainly discusses many sensitive issues! I dunno.... some rambling thoughts...any others to chime in?<P>If nothing else I think we can all agree it's been a pretty emotional week here in MB-Land! Here's a wish for peace and good things for us all. This is a real special bunch of people, and I for one am very proud of how *little* true hatred and unmitigated bitterness & anger we see here, especially given the subject matter. Kudos to you all!<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>

I agree with suse. While it is completely possible that the person responsible has never actually <I>posted</I> here, it's pretty clear to me that s/he has been at least a lurker. Most of us post with pseudonyms, and I'll bet Carol is no exception. For someone to use only that name tells me surely enough that it is someone who has been reading this forum. Personally, I wish I knew for certain who it was, because I'd write Tempest and Steve Harley in a second to have that person banned from this forum - we don't need to have that kind of hatred here.<P>terri

To those here,<P>Take your time, to read Carol's new post...read it slowly..read it thoughtfully..read it with all of us here in mind..go ahead Dmac..Lonestar..you must have read this accusation and turned your head....Suse..you are a good woman...Doug...where are you now???? And then weep for allowing yourselves to buy into the hatred spewn out here by the Whodat entity....I am continually perplexed..how so many who write here daily, who seem to have intelligence, allow themselves to be taken along for rides by some who type on this forum.<P>I am accused of HATE by a supposed man here,,and I don't agree with his opinion..I don't give out hate here...that is MY OPINION>>>>>> Get it...these are opinions..not facts. What DOES make me angry..is that whodat and others can write their HATEFUL "OPINIONS" about me..and these "GOOD" people who are the "clique" here..never say a word...they let him spew his venom far and wide...say the most horrible things about a Man he DOES not know..and they keep their silence....Morality is NOT something that is a sometimes thing..if you want to present yourself here, as a Good person...it is NOT situational...Good means Good...not good if only you like a person.<P>I asked the Dmac to write me..for I wanted to clarify this horrible situation. HE refused....he had made his mind up. As a result his "reputation" unfortunately has been tarnished greatly..he is now exposed as being a person who only cares about if he is right, not God forbid..if he is in error....he stuck with his man...but as you all can see, Carol came back, in the midst of her pain..and let you all know that the lies being espoused here by Whodat..were just that..LIES>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..I will address this to all who have taken the time in these past 12 months to berate me when you did NOT agree with me...GO do what you know is right..appeal to the moderator..get rid once and for all of this "whodat".....and all of the hate and venom he uses..<P>May God help us All,I'm sure that he will.<BR>DG99(H)<BR>

D99,<P>For goodness sakes, please tone down the melodrama. I know it probably stunk being indirectly accused of sending that note to the funeral home, but Carol has clarified the situation. Hopefully everyone will read it and that will be that. We really shouldn't allow anything said on this forum to impact our lives. What people think of us here makes no difference in the grand scheme of things. As long as we are "taking care of business" at home, bottom line: who cares? We can't define anyone here as a <I>bad person</I> simply based on his or her postings (you included). There's so much more to everyone than this. Please, relax about this forum. You're being paranoid. The <I>world</I>, nor this forum is <I>out to get you</I>. So, it's not worth getting yourself all worked up about. You know who you are, don't you? So, what does it matter what anyone here thinks?

D99:<P>Uhh, why did my name come up in this? I never said a word about it. My only post to you recently was on another thread, and I thought it was rather non-judgmental. If I'm incorrect, I apologize.<P>What exactly does this mean?:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Lonestar..you must have read this accusation and turned your head<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>If it's a slight at me, what are you trying to say? If it's NOT a slight at me, what did you mean by it? No judgments, just wondering how I got mentioned here. I've deliberately avoided posting on this thread, but I want some clarification.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P>

I would like to make a couple of clarifications of my own:<P>First, D99, I owe you an apology for assuming, *on my own*, that you were the author of the note left to Carol at the funeral home. Given the tone of your past postings here, including the one that was recently deleted, plus the fact that Carol addressed the issue here, I don't feel it was a totally unreasonable assumption; however, I do feel obligated to apologize since it was made in error. I fully understand why you would be upset about having been mistaken for the author of the note. We are all feeling a little protective of Carol these days.<P>Secondly, DMac did not refuse to correspond with you... he was traveling on business and was as yet unaware of the controversy surrounding the note at Glenn's funeral, had not read Whodat's post (so much for 'sticking by his man'), and did not know why you wanted to reach him privately... upon seeing your post to us near the top of 'the pile', he responded to you by requesting clarification before agreeing to correspond. I believe his caution is entirely appropriate in an internet environment, and does not 'tarnish his reputation'. <P>Finally, you make frequent reference to 'cliques' here... I assure you that I am quite capable of forming my own opinions based on what I read here; I know Dunc is as well; and the rest can speak for themselves. It is natural to gravitate toward others who often share one's views; and I do frequently greet and joke with other 'old-timers' who I have known for a long time on the board. This does not add up to a conspiracy. I'm truly sorry if it has seemed like one to you.<P>Suse

*chortle*<P>D99... get a grip. You may not have noticed, but <B>not once</B> did I ever come right out and say YOU wrote the note to Carol at the funeral home. You DID write some pretty sick stuff here for all to see, though, so I’m hoping the similarities gave you somewhat of a pang of guilt, although I won’t hold my breath.<P>I’ve been trying to find it in me to apologize to D99 for thinking he did send the note (despite NOT posting those thoughts outright) like Suse did... but I just can’t. I might have been able to before reading the above (despite not being able to formulate one on the drive in this morning), but I just can’t take the guy seriously after that post from Fantasyland, so I won’t even try. What he DID post to Carol was despicable, so I would imagine I was silently <B>hoping</B> it was the same person. It’s very sad that there are TWO such sick individuals in this world, and for that I AM sorry.<P>And K... the anger is gone. This post was actually written as an amused afterthought to D99’s latest little tirade above. I’m going to do my best to whittle away at another of my little anger “triggers,” and much like he has helped show others how NOT to save their marriage, I’m hoping he will likewise help me on how NOT to let anger beget anger. Thanks for the thoughts; introspection and change are a never-ending process, as I am a Work In Progress. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die