HPB,

This I am doing for our recovery:

1-ended the affair on march 5, 1212

2-sent out the letter to the OW

3-setup my EP's and protect my boundries everyday

4-make meeting RQ EN's my 1# priority

5-I continue to post and answer every question

6-I listen to the radio show everyday

7-what ever else that RQ asks me to do


KISS

SusieQ,

Im sorry I did now what PORH is I'm aweful at all the abbreviations. It's the policy of radical honesty. Openness and honesty is one of the top EN's in a marriage. With the policy of radical honesty along with the policy of joint agreement you can build trust back between your spouse. You must be 100 honest about everything. Its about being honest with your spouse about your positive and negative emotional reactions, personal history, present schedule, and your thoughts and plans about future activities.

It means never leaving your spouse with false impressions.

KISS

Details for what I highlighted..

I want DETAILS!

What are you going to be doing for RC?

What is your schedule for 20+ hrs every week of UA time?

When are you going to sit down and schedule this every week?

What is your list of resources for soothing your wife when she triggers?

How are you going to handle feedback regarding meeting EN's

Have you both made a list of your top 5 EN's and at least 15 ways you love having that particular EN met?

Have you filled out the RC questionnaire?

DETAILS!
DETAILS!
DETAILS!

YOUR vague lists aren't gonna work for you or for us....

LIST IT OUT!

Come on get with it, you've wasted valuable time during the PlanB that you should have been working on all this.....

Scotland,

I have finished reading Surviving an Affair.

This week UA time has been:

Monday: 2 hrs
Tuesday: 1 1/2 hrs
Thursday: 2 hrs
Friday: 9 1/2 hrs
Saturday: 1 hr
Sunday: 3 hrs
------------------
total 19 hrs

Things I have been doing to meet RQ EN's:


Conversation

1-Calling her at least twice a day when we are working

2-making sure to engage in conversation when I first get home about her day

3-ask her questions to stimulate conversation about her favorite subjects

4-make conversation about us and how we are doing. (especially how I am doing meeting her needs and expectations)

5-Texting her throughout the day when we are at work


Honesty and Openness

1-making sure that when ever she has questions give her the 100 percent truth

2- Let her know what I am thinking and feeling

3- letting her know where I am and what I am doing every moment.


Affection

1-always hold her and kiss her

2- message her every night (feet, back, legs, what ever she wants)

3-hold her when ever I get a chance

4-stop her in the mall or where ever we are just to let her know how much I love her and give her a kiss

5-always hold her hand

6-bring her coffee at work


Admiration

1-bring her flowers

2-stop her from what ever she is doing to let her know how great she is(great mom and wife)

3-let her know constantly how beautiful I KNOW she is.


Domestic Support

1-take care of the dishes

2-clean the kitchen

3-clean up after the kids

4-help her make diner

5-call everyday or night on my way home to see what we need from the store

6-help with laundry

KISS

Kiss .... Every woman is different.
But I wonder if the following is accurate. You wrote:



How is this admiration? Maybe if it is accompanied by a hand written note telling her about the things you admire about her.

To me, when my H brings flowers, I view that gesture as affection, not admiration.

I am being picky because you need someone to point out small important details for you.

Kiss, the following link is an example of the sort of "admiration" a recovering BW really needs. It takes much more effort than running to the store and buying flowers. This was written by Schoolbus, and is very personal. I liked it so much that I saved it to my notable posts thread so I could find it quickly for situations like yours.

Here is the link: ~~~> Schoolbus writes about "the list"

I hope this helps you understand ADMIRATION a bit better.

Pep, I get choked up every time I read that post! Thanks for linking it, I needed to see it again too.

HPB,

I am trying to get RQ to sit with me on Sundays to plan out our week of UA time. I was doing it yesterday and trying to get her feedback. This week is tough because I have to work over nights Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. She gets home at 5:30 and I leave at 7:15. But Wednesday I don't go in until midnight. RQ is going away over night with the kids and she said she should be home Saturday around noon. I'm off Saturday and Sunday.
So our week we scheduled for time together is as follows:

Wednesday 7 pm till 11 pm
Thursday 9 pm till 10:30 pm
Saturday 12 pm till 12 midnight
Sunday 10 am till 8 pm

I asked her what we should do Wednesday night. I thought that it would be a good idea to do some of the Questionaires. She said she wasn't to thrilled about doing them. We have done the

HPB,

I am trying to get RQ to sit with me on Sundays to plan out our week of UA time. I was doing it yesterday and trying to get her feedback. This week is tough because I have to work over nights Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. She gets home at 5:30 and I leave at 7:15. But Wednesday I don't go in until midnight. RQ is going away over night with the kids and she said she should be home Saturday around noon. I'm off Saturday and Sunday.
So our week we scheduled for time together is as follows:

Wednesday 7 pm till 11 pm
Thursday 9 pm till 10:30 pm
Saturday 12 pm till 12 midnight
Sunday 10 am till 10:30 pm

I asked her what we should do Wednesday night. I thought that it would be a good idea to do some of the Questionnaires. She said she wasn't to thrilled about doing them. We have done the EN's questionnaires several times and we review it to make sure I'm meeting RQ EN's.

She said she would not do the sexual history or the personal history questionnaires. This bothers me a lot. I have asked her in the past through out our relationship how many people she has been with and she has no idea. I have asked if it was 10 or more and she has no idea. I believe she is lying to me. It is something that is very important to me. I was only with one person before meeting her. So I have been with three woman in my life. I wish it was only one. I really don't feel like I know that much about my wife's past. I don't know if she is embarrassed or ashamed of her past or what the deal is. I feel like I have the right to know but she said that it doesn't matter because it happened before we meet. I have told her everything about my past. What should I do? Should I leave it alone or should I say its something we need to do! I have the feeling still that she is picking and choosing what parts of recovery and the program is convenient to her.

Sorry for getting off the topic. So our weeks plans

Wednesday 7 pm - 11 pm ?
Thursday 9 pm - 10:30 pm radio show and time to talk
Saturday 12 pm - 8 pm family time Christmas tree and decorating
8-1 am going out with RQ to see a band
Sunday 10 am -12 pm Church
12 pm - 8 pm shopping with RQ
9 pm - 10:30 alone time with RQ

The question about how I would handle feedback about meeting RQ EN's is I ask her probably everyday how I am doing and is their anything I need to improve on. I am also looking for feedback on what she thinks I can change or do differently to satisfy her EN's. I am also looking for her to tell me if their is anything that she dislikes that I do that upsets her or makes love bank withdrawals. For instance I had a holiday party for my job last night and when we were leaving she said that when we were up in the front of everyone I was very distant she said that I acted differently. I was showing her affection and kissed her a couple of times but it stopped when everyone was looking at us. I told her that I need to act a certain way because I'm in front of all my employees. I feel now it was a time that would have made her feel good for me to show affection in front of everyone. Kind of like show everyone I'm taken and give her some reassurance. So yes I want feedback and know what adjustments I need to make or what I am doing that makes the biggest impact.

We have made a list of our top 5 EN's. We have never made a list of ways to meet our EN's. We haven't filled out the RC questionnaire. Wednesday would be a good time to work on these. I will have them ready to do with RQ then.

For our RC time we have been going bowling, we like to go out and see a local band at local bars every once in a while, Recently we have been doing a lot of shopping together. We need to find a hobby or interest to do together. Us doing the RC questionnaire Wednesday should give us some direction.

What I do to sooth RQ when she is having a trigger or a low moment is I hold her and apologize for hurting her. I explain to her how I have been working on myself and putting up my walls so an affair will never happen again. I promise her with these conditions in place that I will never hurt her again.

KISS

I feel like I have the right to know but she said that it doesn't matter because it happened before we meet.

Exactly how stupid do you want to prove yourself to be, K? The right to ask those "How many? How often? How satisfying? What positions?" questions about her life before K ended when you asked her to marry you. That ceremony dropped the curtain on her past life, as it did yours.

Your bringing it up now is a transparent attempt to generate leverage in your recovery process, embarrassing her and unbalancing her equilibrium with extraneous crap.

You should be as ashamed of yourself, as I am for having tried to assist you until now.

kiss, are you guys doing any MB coaching? Have you thought about it?

The 5-pack of sessions is $975 but is a lot cheaper than a divorce.

Has she ever been sexually unfaithful to you since engagement/marriage?

I don't think this is fair, NG. Kiss is asking RQ to do a questionnaire that is part of the program created by Dr Harley. He is asking her to provide him RH about something that is important to him. If she is expecting him to provide her with RH about everything in life, why would it be inappropriate for him to ask the same from her?

Perhaps there is manipulation in the tactic, or the timing. Of course I am not in favor of that. But at the end of the day, Kiss is saying that he would like more RH from RQ, and I don't think that is an unacceptable request.

No sale, UW!

They've been married for many years, and this was not enough of an issue for K to broach with RQ before the necessity of his getting his act together became critical. It is classic distraction tactics to raise it now, so that he can heap on the "All I asked for was....." in deflecting her need for him to address his post-wedding behavior.

When you buy a house, you have the right to have it inspected and surveyed to a fair-thee-well prior to closing the deal. You do NOT, many years later, get to hold the seller responsible for your well being discovered as located on a neighboring lot.

While I agree that the past relationships needs to be discussed, I also agree that this is some serious deflecting by Kiss, which he has been doing non stop these past few months.

Kiss, your UA time is only about 3 hours total for this week. No where near the 20+ you need. What gives?

Before I begin answering you, I want to share some important info. Listen carefully!

Your wife has already tried to work this program with you and what happened,,,,,you lied, gave her trickle truth, etc. etc. etc....

She's tired, at times suffering PTSD, Is triggering when you do or say stupid things and she's trying to find the reasons and the feelings necessary to continue in this marriage every day.

You cannot expect her to carry her weight in this recovery! She no longer has that strength. Not because she's weak, but because you've done so much damage to her.

It's your turn to carry the weight.


Look, it's going to be your job to sit down and do the hard work! Put the schedule together, every week and then ask your wife to look it over and give you any changes/feedback. It will be your job to make this happen. Anything less will reveal you're not serious and will delay recovery.






Then it's simple, you don't do the questionnaires!

Positive UA time together must be intentional. Making it positive is you're job. Don't blow it or she is going to trigger and it will be miserable for both of you.





Again, simple, leave it alone!

You can re-visit this topic in about, um, lets say 5 years of great recovery, OK!





You are way to early in recovery to make this type of a statement. Defer to my opening comments as to why I say this, OK!




Please ask RQ how she feels when you do this.

Why?

My wife triggered when I tried to do this with her. We actually did some work arounds on this. Dr' Jennifer Harley Chalmers gave us different ways to do this part of the program and she said it's not uncommon for the BS to trigger and need help with this.





If neither of you have made a list of how you like your needs met, then reviewing is useless! Until you both make these lists, stop with trying to do the feedback.

Do not make your lists together.
Do not do your lists during UA time.




The RC questionnaire is an individual assignment. It works better when each of you do one alone. Once you've both done it, you can offer to take the scores and total them up. The only thing you need to do after that is chat about the findings.




This is good.

Have you asked RQ if these are helping? (just don't ask in the middle of one)

What about gently rubbing her hand, or neck, or hair during triggers?

What about lighting candles that she loves the smell of?

What about offering to draw her a bath and allowing her some quite time?

What about making her a nice cup of Chamomile tea?

Etc. etc. etc....

They are bankrupt and foreclosed.
I think he is getting advice from qualified men on the forum and if he just reaches out to them more then he may be able to win his wife back.

Also Dr Harley agreed to email communication with the couple.

I never got that far in recovery.
But it is in the back of the SAA book.
And I noticed also in the back of Buyers Renters Freeloaders.
I thought radical honesty was part of the MB program

RH is much more affiliated with being straightforward in expressing opinions and preferences about CURRENT issues. Example: I feel unappreciated when you go out for a drink with your coworkers every Friday night. Or: I do not feel that the time we devote to SF is a high enough priority in our weekly schedule.

Ex post facto use of demands for honesty, being used as a means of intimidation and psychological pressure, is probably NOT what Dr H meant when he coined the term!

Look guys, Historical Honesty has thousands of talking points that can lead to great intimate conversations. Conversations that start out with, what was your favorite gift when you were a little girl?, then you ask, why was it your favorite?, then you ask, do you remember what happened to the toy? etc. etc. I think you get the point....

But at this point RQ's sexual history needs to be off the table for maybe 5 years of recovery.

Intimate conversation is going to have to be fun and, well, something that leads to intimacy. Triggering RQ intentionally ain't gonna do it. And asking about her historical "sexual" honesty is gonna trigger her big time, images of Kiss having sex with OW is all she is gonna see once the topic is broached...

This "sexual history" topic is equivalent to yelling Squirrel in the movie UP... It's no more than a recipe for disaster. Lets see if Kiss can let it go.