Not sure where to put this.

It's been a long time since I've posted but a lot has happened and we're back in the US and doing generally 'ok'.

One big issue for my W is that she wants to have another baby. I had a vasectomy about 5 years ago. I regret that decision because I did it as a unilateral decision. This hurt her deeply when I finally told her, rightfully so, and I feel very guilty about this.

Regardless of that, I'm not very enthusiastic about having another child for a few reasons, the main one being is our marriage isn't even close to being recovered. I'd say we're barely even in recovery.

We don't practice the POJA because she's not really aware of what that is. She is very, very slowly reading HNHN but is not so onboard with following this MB program even after all these years.

I've read Dr. Harley's two articles on having children and the POJA.

I've relayed to her that I feel like we should work on our marriage harder before considering having another child, along with all of the issues that having a child brings about. We have an amazing son and love him dearly. I also have a daughter from a previous relationship that lives in another country from before I met my wife. I was never married to the mother.

I've informed her that a large reason I'm not sure if I want to have another child is that I'm not currently very confident of our relationship and where it has potential to go because we aren't really working on it together. She states that she's "100 % sure that SHE will never want to divorce me as long as he has control over the situation" and that if I am unsure now then it scares her. I feel she's misinterpreting my feelings. She also doesn't understand the concept that the marriage should be the top priority, even over the children. To her, having another child is her #1 priority in life and for me it would be working on our marriage.

Appreciate any input and advice and happy holidays!

Do not have a baby when your marriage is a wreck!!!

I agree with that. But even if our marriage were great, I don't know if I'd want another child.

And you won't know until your marriage is better/recovered.

Having another child is what brought me to this site � or so it seemed at the time. While I have no regrets having our 3rd child (he is a wonderful boy) the agreement to have a 3rd AND to work on our issues didn't pan out.... at least for the parts I wanted. She soon wanted another.

Now some 10 years after I found Dr Harley and made attempts on my own to work his program (and failing) we are finally working the MB program together. You can try the POJA in your M even though she doesn�t officially understand the concept. You just want be as successful at it as you would if you were doing it together.

I would not recommend having more children with someone who put other things before the marriage. That's a recipe for disaster. You'll have expectations that will go unmet.

I say negotiate with her. You'll consider (with no promise) another child when you see how you feel after recovering your marriage. The real key to this will be to get her working with you on this program. From that you will restore your love and learn tools that will help you make the tough decisions like the size of your family. You�ll do it as a team looking for the win-win. Right now she�s making a selfish demand. Don�t give in to that behavior.
Can you explain in more detail what this means? It didn't make sense to me.

Have you seen these?
Should We Have Children #1
Should We Have Children #2

BrainHurts - yes I have read both of those articles, but thank you.

Mr. Alias - what I meant by that last question is she states she is completely convinced that she will not end our marriage or have the desire to do so, ever, no matter what. Basically, that is what she is saying. However, she feels that my fear of 'not knowing what will happen' makes her apprehensive about my intentions and feelings in the future as if having another child could possibly lead to more heart break if we were to ever divorce. When I say she's misinterpreting I mean that, as a broken record, I repeat the mantra of desiring us to go through this program together and working on it before we can even consider having another child. We've both actually agreed verbally that our son is the glue that keeps us together and either one of us would have left a long time ago (probably her due to my asinine behavior).

Regardless, she feels short-changed on this. It's a huge dilemma for her, and therefore, me.

Then don't have one. If you don't want a child but have one to make her "happy" it will lead to resentment. It is not fair to the child either. I think you know all this though.

Indeed. I'm not 100% against it but I'm definitely not all for it, either. I'm more worried about her resentment towards me for depriving her of something she wants so badly.

...she states she is completely convinced that she will not end our marriage or have the desire to do so, ever, no matter what. Basically, that is what she is saying. However, she feels that my fear of 'not knowing what will happen' makes her apprehensive about my intentions and feelings in the future as if having another child could possibly lead to more heart break if we were to ever divorce.

Check your strings, my friend, she is playing you like a fiddle!

What she is REALLY saying is that "I want this baby, and rather than trusting this most important of all life-decisions to POJA, I'm going to extort (or "guilt") you into going along with my unilateral choice!" A child produced as "proof" of commitment? A child should be the end result of commitment already earned and sealed.

The biggest concern is not HER resentment, but your resentment. Yours would be much harder to get over, if at all. And if you have not even recovered your marriage, then your resentment is already great.

I would expect, at the very least after an affair, that she fully commit to recovery (MB steps included) before such an action is even considered (and then that is under POJA).

Your child is the "glue" that holds you together.

I suspect that means you have little or no UA time, obviously no POJA as you've already stated, what sort of recovery has even taken place? Did you follow anything that is meant for affair recovery?

We haven't had much of a recovery. She very much has a head in the sand kind of mentality, and having a baby will majically fix all of her emotional issues and resentment towards me, showing my commitment.

Little UA time. Obviously, not POJA'ing.

Things have indeed gotten better, but we're definitely not 'there' yet...not really even close.

WITW,

I read your SA thread.

What are your ENs? What ENs, if any, is your W meeting?

MA - I've shown her my list of EN a long time ago when this first started going on. O&H, SF, RC are all up there at the top. She's not really meeting any of those so well.

She doesn't tell what hers are, although she did numerize them for me one time after I pleaded with her, but she dismisses this tactic as going by what someone else says are emotional needs. Yesterday she literally told me having a baby would be one of her needs. But, I know communication and honesty are a couple of hers, and I've worked much harder on those.

I can remember when my wife told me a baby was a need for her too.

Imagine my pain. The only time we'd be intimate on a consistent basis is when it was for the sake of having a child.

I try to look back on it with a positive light ... but most times it just hurts.

Do you try to be the catalyst for her in meeting your needs? Or do you sit in wait hoping she meets them?

I'll be offline for a while. I'll get back to you ASAP.

I don't really know how to answer that. I'm so gun shy about rejection.

It seems it's all or nothing emotionally, when I'm in a good mood it's great and then something happens and we both crash.

A big issue for me I suppose is that she is constantly bringing up past transgressions when we have 'discussions' and I can't get her to move on with it and just put these ideas into play.

It sounds as if neither of you has recovered from your past infidelities. Sweeping them under the rug or saying 'move on with it' will not work. Have you read 'Surviving an Affair'?

Having a baby is not an emotional need in the context we use here. It will not restore the romantic love to your marriage, it will ERODE it.

The problem is that your marriage has never recovered and your wife is not in love with you. That means that your marriage is unlikely to last for long. You and your wife are vulnerable to affairs. I would tell her you won't even consider it unless you go through the MB course and have restored the romantic love to your marriage.

Otherwise you would just be bringing a child into a very fragile marriage that us not long for the road.

WITW,

You wrote awhile back that she watches porn, but wants nothing to do with you. Is this still the case?

If so do not have a baby as she views you as a sperm donor, provider, father, possibly a husband, but not a lover.

God Bless
Gamma