I found out about 2 weeks ago that my wife of 8 years has been having an affair. I found out from the wife of her lover. They had been together for 5 months, meeting a couple of times a week and speaking for hours a day. I was completely unaware and bowled over by the news. Of course my initial reaction was anger, but I quickly replaced that with a desire to fight for my marriage and make it work. We also have 2 young children to consider.

It was my wife who ended the affair. The lover was pressuring her to leave and start a new life with him (he is also married with children). Instead of saying no, she said that she needed to sort out her life at home and see if there was anything to salvage. My wife at this point has cut off communication with him, or has she? You see, she says that she's miserable, misses him terribly, hasn't spoken, seen, emailed, or chatted with him in a couple of weeks and has de-friended him on facebook. That said, she's on facebook for hours a day, and is very private about her email and phone. I don't have a facebook account personally, and I'm not keeping tabs on her as our relationship is highly unstable and I don't want to add fuel to the fire. I really believe that my wife is second guessing her decision to come home and it wouldn't take much for her to walk out the door.

Despite this, she left her email open yesterday and I saw that she sent an attractive picture of herself to a male friend of hers, whom I know is aware of the affair and is friendly with the lover. She has also been looking at the lovers (public) facebook page freqently. They haven't reconnected, but maybe she just wants to see his picture.

He has also been in contact with some of my wife's friends saying that he's concerned about her well being.

On the other hand, we are working to improve things at home and she's very pleased and surprised by the changes in me. I'm much more attentive and taking care of much more around the house.

We've started to become romantic again (some hand holding and kissing, but we're a long way from real intimacy).

However, she has little patience and is very quick to anger. I want to get more information about her activities, but I want her to tell me. She says that she'll answer any of my questions, but she also is weary of talking about our relationship, and isn't forthcoming about anything. When I start to bring anything up, she immediately becomes defensive and cold.

I know that I need to bring up these issues and have a real discussion about our current activities and make sure that she is being honest, but I'm concerned about the timing. She's still in withdrawal (if contact has ceased).

Lastly, my wife and the lover are in the same industry, but different companies in nearby cities. In February, there is an industry wide 2 day conference which I know they will both be attending. I am particularly concerned about this, as I feel that I have only until then to really make my case. If she's not committed to me by then, she could easily fall back into adultery. The lover still wants to be with my wife and will certainly take advantage of the conference.

I know this is a long first post, but I would really appreciate any help or advice.

Thanks and Merry Christmas.

Have you read the book Surviving an Affair by Dr Bill Harley?

Hi AW, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry for the reasons that brought you here, you are in the right place.

I would start off by reading DR. Harley's articles about how to survive infidelity: How to Survive Infidelity

Then go read the exposure thread that is linked in my signature. Exposure will be your most potent weapon against the affair. the sooner you expose the greater impact it will have on the affair.

I would also encourage you to put a keylogger on her computer and spyware on her phone so you can see what she is doing. A good keylogger is eblaster at spectorsoft.com. Go check out the operation investigate forum for ideas on good cell phone spyware programs.

Hello, AW, Welcome to marriagebuilders!

An affair is much like an addiction and she cannot be anywhere near him, much like an alcoholic cannot be near alcohol.

He is also reminding her of him through third party messages. This must stop. As must her habit of gazing at his FB page instead of cutting those ties.

If she is not already in secret contact with him, she very soon will be.

You are helping her keep secrets and allowing her a far too tempting level of privacy. She is still very attached and 'in the fog' of the affair-drug.

Snoop and read the link in Melody Lane's thread regarding exposure.

Her anger and stand offishness is straight out of the wayward handbook, btw. Don't worry about it, it's all smoke and mirrors (as is her blaming you, which I bet she is trying too). You can do this!

Arthur, as step #1, you need to expose the affair broadly & without warning to anyone whose esteem matters to the affairees. This includes both sets of parents, siblings, your children, any mutual friends, and friends of hers, as well as any friends of his whom you might know. Facebook can help. These people all need to be made fully aware of what is going on. In addition, if they carried on their affair using company time & resources, then their respective employers should be alerted to what's been going on. Because of what you've described, it seems highly likely that they remain in contact during business hours via company phones/e-mails.

All of this exposure will ratchet up the pressure on the affair. Please read the thread linked to MelodyLane's post regarding "Exposure 101"

The light of day is by far the most effective weapon for killing many an affair. (I know this from personal experience. It killed my affair & actually gave me a chance to get myself straight. It thus saved my marriage & perhaps my life.)

Important: You mustn't warn either of them them in advance before you expose. The shock value of sudden exposure makes the affair a lot less fun, and makes the affairees start to realize that they're no longer in control of developments. When friends & acquaintances look at them with puzzlement & disgust, an affair suddenly doesn't feel so exhilarating. When a married man is forced to stop cake-eating & fence-sitting (which secrecy allows him to do) and is forced to make a choice, he often will dump the affair partner & choose to try & save his family.

Killing an affair is no guarantee that you'll be able to save the marriage, but it is absolutely necessary as a prerequisite, in order for you to have a fighting chance to try to save the marriage.

Sounds to me like they're still in contact. Dollars to doughnouts they're taking it underground. She shouldn't be on Facebook at all. If she's looking at his page, she is being triggered anew each time, and has not even begun the process of withdrawal. My friend, this affair is not yet over by any means. That's why you need massive exposure in order to help end it.

You're absolutely correct about this. Therefore, under no circumstances can she attend that conference. She is holding onto hope of seeing him there. You must make clear that this can't & won't happen.

You need to end the affair. Your wife has not properly ended it yet. If left to their own devices, affairees will almost never do a proper job of ending an affair. Even if they genuinely mean to end it, they will ALWAYS leave open some avenue of potential future contact, because, while still in the emotional fog of the affair-addiction, they just don't see, just don't GET how important a complete & permanent cessation of contact is for recovering a marriage from infidelity. The only way they will GET it is if acted upon from outside -- by a spouse, by an occasional marriage counselor who gets it (many don't), or a MarriageBuilders reference, such as the book "Surviving An Affair" -- by the way, the book which may well have saved my marriage.

Therefore, you need to take the lead in ending this affair. She has not yet done so. This, I assure you, and you'd better be smart enough to take my word upon it. Remember, I was a cheater once, so I know how they think & act, because I once thought & acted that way.

Expose. Put together your package, steel yourself, and do it. Since the exposure will include many of WW's co-workers (and POSOM's contacts as well) your next step should be more easily accepted.

You must tell WW that attending the conference, with POSOM lurking to resume contact, will likely be her last act as a married woman. Letting her go means you do not intend to fight, and don't kid yourself, WW knows that as well as we at MB do.

It is time, Arthur, to utter your own version of "Up, Guards, and at them!"

Gloveoil (a former wayward himself) is right, she's still holding on. Each trigger, each piece of information restarts withdrawal. It is not until she is THROUGH weeks, sometimes months of withdrawal from him that she will see she is responsible and she will not even try to heal you while she is still in the fog.

While in the fog she blames YOU and it will be your fault/the relationship's fault if she backslides. Take away her needles which are in Facebook/contact form and ask other people to help you get her out of the crack house.

Waywards LOVE to say that they worked on things but it just didn't work. Makes the waywards look like the good guys and friends and family will then welcome the OM with open arms...because they do not know the truth. Exposure to people of influence in your WW life is your strongest weapon.


Install spyware. That is the only way you will know if they are still in contact. If they are...your chances of saving this marriage are pretty slim until you can establish NC for LIFE.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.

I am very concerned about putting a keylogger on her computer. At this point she is feeling very upset, hates having to talk about this stuff, and feels that she has no privacy at all. I am certain that if it was discovered, it would mean the end of our marriage.

I'm also not very good at keeping secrets. She knows me too well, and can tell if there's something on my mind. Yesterday she could tell I was bothered, and I told her about the emails I read and that I know she's been visiting his facebook page. Instead of lashing out, she just turned off. Said she hasn't been in touch with the guy, and that can't I just back off. But today, she is totally cold.

I also don't feel that mass exposure is the right way to go about it. She's already told her Mother, and a couple of her friends know. I don't see how embarrassing her by telling her employer or sister etc. would help her feel any more love for me.

It's also tough because I feel that we were really starting to make progress over the last few days, and now it's back to square 1.

I'm trying to prove that I'm the man she wants to be with. But what am I supposed to do if what she needs is to have privacy at a time when I'm not so comfortable with it.

Thanks,

Arthur

That isn't your goal, Arthur. It is impossible for you to make love bank deposits right now because she is in love with another man!!!

Your goal is to bust up the A.

If your plan is 'please love me' you're doomed.

Arthur if your moniker is your real name, it might be a good idea to change it to protect your anonymity.

It's holiday time so a bit quiet on the boards but please stick around and the vets will be along to help you soon. Exposure is your best weapon to destroy the affair, at present you are enabling it by your passive behaviour and allowing her her "privacy". Privacy is when you visit the bathroom, what she wants is secrecy so she can conduct her disgusting affair without your interference.

And don't even think about leaving your home.

Her goal is twofold:

To make you standoffish and walking on eggshells, so

1) She can continue the A uninteruppted
2) She can tell herself you don't care very much, easing some guilt.

You seem to think we don't understand her strange uncaring behaviour. But this is TYPICAL wayward 'leave me alone' behaviour. We have seen it countless times. I bet she either makes you sleep elsewhere or she clings to the edge of the mattress in case she touches you.



Does this make sense to you? She would end a marriage over that? When you are willing to work past an affair? Yet most waywards try to convince their spouse this is a reasonable thing to do.

Would this be your attitude if it was YOUR affair which was being forgiven? If against all expectations you got to keep your marriage? Any reasonable person would simply be glad that there was a way to prove their word is still true. They would invite their heartbroken spouse to make whatever checks were necessary. Unfortunatly reason disappears shortly after the start of an A and is replaced with irrational thinking and blame shifting.

The balance of power is with the person who cares least. Since a wayward feels no love, and only loves 'privacy' and A opportunities, it feels like they have the power. They don't love you like you love them and this instils a sense of desperation.

But the key to it all is ending her addiction by ending the A. If you can bust it up, you have a shot at busting up this strange attitude where she cares for nothing and no one except the A.

If she is REALLY so determined to keep the road to OM open with secrecy and privacy, you're doomed anyway - so what have you got to lose?

Your marriage can survive temporary anger. But it cannot survive an Affair. It cannot. You've already seen how this relationship has destroyed her love for you, her openness and sense of commitment.

Unfortunately, we see a lot of enabling from betrayed spouses who are too scared of the wayward leaving.

This puts them in the position where the wayward happily let's two people meet her needs.

One of the worst cases was a BH who did nothing for TWO YEARS. He enabled that whole time showing his wife he cared very little about her. It would actually have been better for him to separate and let them try the illicit relationship because few affairs (5 per cent) go past the two year mark, because they are mere fantasies which don't work in the real world. That's why they are secret!



The above links no longer work, but these are updated links to the radio shows.

Well, you'd better get good at it. Think James Bond-good: Sleuthy yet suave & pleasantly-demeanored, all at the same time. You need to become this. If you're not willing to adapt and act, you aren't going to save your marriage. The same old, same old isn't going to get it done. You're at war for your marriage, and you'd better start fighting, or you're going to find yourself overrun come February. It's not that far off, you know.

Oh, that's brilliant. You've got this all figured out, and I'm the one who doesn't know what he's talking about?
What do you think: Who knows more about affairs? You, or I?

Upopn whose authority have you got that understanding? How do you know what she told them? Did you, yourself, speak 1-on-1 with her mother & her friends to verify this?

Here's how: While she's continuing to pine for the other man, and certainly while she's in contact with him (which it appears she is), then your trying to make love-bank deposits is like trying to pour water into a glass that's already full. Your efforts to make her feel more love for you are just spilling all over the table. She sees a man who won't even fight a battle for his marriage, because, figuratively-speaking, he's scared of the noise, and she likely thinks this is rather pathetic.

And she ought to be embarrassed of her behavior -- not as a goal, but as a means: An affairee will end the affair when she is forced to confront the consequences of the affair and the prospective pain of those consequences appears to her to outweigh the addictive rush of the affair. You'r emaking the mistake of not realizing that affairs are addictions. Addicts act rationally only insofar as one understands that their every move & thought is directed toward getting their 'fix.' You have got to understand this.

Ah, but she isn't asking for privacy, my friend; rather, she's insisting upon secrecy. There's a big difference! Privacy is OK; it's what you have when, for example, one spouse uses the loo; she has the door closed, she has privacy, but you know what's going on in there. Secrecy is altogether different, and it is destructive to a marriage. Secrecy = non-transparency. Secrecy is what she wants, so that she can continue to correspond with her affair partner.

She turned off because she started to think that you were on to her. Stupid move, that, for you to tip your cards by telling her that you're watching her. Now she will try to take this affair further underground.

I listened to the clips, and they were helpful.

Am I an enabler if it's only been 2 weeks since I found out, and she swears there has been no contact with the OM since D-Day.

She also seems willing to work on the marriage, and we've had a couple of good days. But then setbacks.

Am I trying to do too many things at once? I'm trying to help her remember why she married me and fell in love with me to begin with, while at the same time not being too pushy on details, because she instantly tenses up and we regress when I do. My thought is that when we've made some progress and she's feeling more comfortable with the thought of staying together, that would be a better time to address some of my concerns.

I'm concerned that exposure at this time would really push her out the door. She says she's miserable and doesn't feel anything for me, and who wouldn't want to change that situation for the better. And better in her mind might just be walking out.

Then there's facebook. Do you think I should demand that she close her facebook account? It makes me very uncomfortable, that's for sure, but she is totally hooked on the site, and yes she still looks at the OM's public page. When I asked her about that she said, there's been no contact of any kind, but that doesn't mean she doesn't still miss him.

She does need an outlet of some kind, right? And the way she's feeling about me makes her not want to share with me. She's resistant to going to therapy, so making any kind of demand like closing facebook forever, probably won't go over well. And she could always sign up again from work under a different name, and that would encourage her to go underground if she hasn't already.

Today is a down day.

Thanks for your help so far. I've ordered SAA.

Also, when does the total honesty stuff come in to play?

I thought I was doing the right thing by being open with her about my feelings as well as telling her what I found in her email etc. I wanted to show that I was being honest and wanted her to feel that she could confide in me with whatever she felt was important.

She just doesn't have a lot to say at this point...

Arthur, I edited my above post while you were typing. Please re-read it.

If you're taking the word of a foggy affairee, a proven liar, and shrinking from steps to end the affair; if you're in denial about the likelihood of continued contact; then yes, you're an enabler. That isn't your intention, I'm sure, but that's the result.

If she were willing to work on the marriage, she'd be willing to be transparent in her online conduct. She is only willing to engage in a charade to make you think that she's willing to work on the marriage while she pines for February & tries to figure out how to keep the affair going. (And it's working splendidly.)

No; you're trying very hard to come up with reasons to do as little as possible; and you really ought to start considering that it could cost you any chance at saving your marriage.

This is because she's afraid she won't be able to keep her story straight, because she's still lying to you.

The way you're playing this hand of cards, that time won't come.

... because she's still in the affair.

No, she needs to go through withdrawal, which begins by establishing complete no-contact with the affair-partner. Your asking whether she needs an 'outlet' is like asking if an alcoholic needs a sniff of whiskey, my friend. And the answer, of course, is: Certainly not. Having secret online relationships is what abetted her affair. Seeing the other man's Facebook page keeps her triggered and keeps her from making any progress through withdrawal.

Does an alcoholic need an outlet to get more wine? Nope.

She can do very well without his FB page. Or FB at all!!!

Please stop walking on eggshells. She can refuse. Then you inform her you wont allow it in your home and take out the internet connection.

But first do some snooping nad prepare for exposure. She actually thinks she can cheat on you indefinitely and you will gladly cover her tracks for her afterwards. The time is drawing near for you to let her know you wont put up it.

But snooping first.



When she has proven trustworthyness you can start to implement RH as part of recovery. But right now it's like Churchill telling the Nazis when to expect him. She's completely at the mercy of her addiction.

How else do you explain behaviour as CALLOUS as her telling her H she misses the OM and needs to see his FB page?

Just some food for thought, Arthur, but when you find yourself saying 'she says' or 'she swears' and actually feeling tempted to believe without a good reason to - you're headed for a dark maze filled with booby traps.

If she is going to make claims, she should be willing to provide the proof. And she should have no problem with you independently verifying what she says. In fact she should be delighted you don�t have to solely rely on her (very shaky) word in order to stay.

I think you are going to discover some nasty things, but keep in mind this is due to the current circumstances of secrecy. The more she is held (publicly) accountable the easier she will find it to be more honest.

In the meantime you should read up on the carrot and stick of Plan A. Do you know what her main needs are? Is there any obvious advantage this guy has over you? Is his wife keeping an eye on him?