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I wanted to mention something.
Our success is directly attributable to leaping into the coaching/counseling with the Harley's, followed up with the MB Weekend Seminar.
The weekend has turned into the online course now, but the materials are the same.
They helped us resolve the difficult issues quickly without muddying up the waters with issues from our childhoods....
They helped us understand that our childhood issues won't help us with our current problems in any way. We were afterall, dealing with a marriage in crisis not a childhood in crisis.
I pray you take the fastest road to recovery and call the coaching center for an appointment today.
I promise, you'll be amazed with their approach!
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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Oh gosh. You know, I'd forgotten all about that post, I hadn't read it in so long. That guy sure was foul. 
One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger
I will not spend my life this way.
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FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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My wife had 3 conditions - no alchohol, sell the motorcycle, and quit my job.
Last day on the job was 12/19. I've haven't drank any alchohol since November. Motorcycle is going on Craigslist this week.
UA - we've been spending 15-20 hours a week
Made a list of recreational activities last night and worked on schedule for ucoming week tonight.
Setbacks have been, my mother is not supporting the program. Our daughters are having a tough time.
I want to make a list of expectations for my mother to support our recovery. Wife is handling discipline and talks with the girls. I am focusing on love bank deposits with the girls.
This has been a day-by-day process.
My concerns are being able to find another job in this economy, losing our house, and being able to set a budget when we still haven't had "extra" money at the end of the month, even with 2 incomes.
I am the happiest when I'm spending one-on-one time with my wife. It is good when my girls smile and laugh in the family environment.
I'm trying to prepare for this marathon, but there are a lot of bad habits that have got to be overcome. It is a monitor-and-adjust process.
My worst worry is that my wife is going to draw the line when I'm at a low point. I want to support my wife through the positives and negatives and be united with her. Any suggestions on how to control my reaction to her when she draws a line, when emotions are high on both sides?
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My worst worry is that my wife is going to draw the line when I'm at a low point. I want to support my wife through the positives and negatives and be united with her. Any suggestions on how to control my reaction to her when she draws a line, when emotions are high on both sides? My promise to my wife was; "I'll do whatever it takes, for as long as it takes" In order to pull this off, I had to learn all about care (meeting needs) and protection (eliminating MY love busters). This was a process, not an event,,,,, or as you've said it's a marathon, not a short distance sprint..... Be very patient with your bride, she has been through a great deal of trauma. Longhaul, You've done a great deal of the tough work already, now comes the consistency that follows the initial promises you've made. I know you can do this and I'm certain you can help lead the recovery following the MB Online Course, even when your wife hits low points. Stay the course! As a safety valve, I had several men that I could contact during my low points that all kept me on track. You already have at least one person you can contact when the need does arise.... 
Recovery began 10/07;
Meeting my wife's EN's is my "thank you" that refuses to be silenced.
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My worst worry is that my wife is going to draw the line when I'm at a low point. I want to support my wife through the positives and negatives and be united with her. Any suggestions on how to control my reaction to her when she draws a line, when emotions are high on both sides? Longhaul, the more attention you pay to what she tells you is bothering her, the faster and easier this will be. She can help you guide your marriage out of this terrible place. You have done a lot of really good things so far, so just keep it up. Pretend like you are the doctor and she is the patient. You are rendering aide to your patient. Listen to her symptoms and ask her lots of questions so you will know how to help her in the best, most efficient way. Her complaints are a good thing, not a bad thing. They give you an opportunity for improvement. And the faster your marriage is improved, the sooner you can return to a happy, fulfilled marriage.. It is not fun to get a complaint, but the alternative would be a disaster. It is like getting a NSF notice from the bank. No fun to get them, but they give you a chance to correct your course. Setbacks have been, my mother is not supporting the program. Our daughters are having a tough time.
I want to make a list of expectations for my mother to support our recovery. That will go a long way in repairing the damage in your marriage. By doing this, you demonstrate protection and love to your wife. Good job!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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My worst worry is that my wife is going to draw the line when I'm at a low point. I want to support my wife through the positives and negatives and be united with her. Any suggestions on how to control my reaction to her when she draws a line, when emotions are high on both sides? Whatever you do, don't argue with her! I think if you change your view of her complaints you won't have such a bad reaction. Her complaints are a good thing, not a bad thing. A complaint is an irritation in a bad marriage and an opportunity for improvement in a good marriage. They are the path to a happy marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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My concerns are being able to find another job in this economy, losing our house, and being able to set a budget when we still haven't had "extra" money at the end of the month, even with 2 incomes.
My friend, you have a long row to hoe, very little doubt about it.
The good news is that right now you still have a woman who wants to help you return to the man of integrity and honor that you once were. And you also have some colleagues here who will help you earn that standing.
Let's pick your immediate issue:
Any suggestions on how to control my reaction to her when she draws a line, when emotions are high on both sides?
That's start with what likely WON'T work. Immediately (reflexively?) getting defensive and saying "No" is probably not your best ploy. Storming away is also not a suggested response.
The BEST response would be to say "Yes, dear, if that is necessary." But for the moment, we will assume that such a response would seem.....foreign, and probably unnatural. So your best response might be to LISTEN, and immediately answer, "Give me an hour to think about that, and we'll discuss it then." And do it - one hour later, with the understanding that what she needs, she needs.
Of course, if you wanted to get ahead of this battle that you and she are in TOGETHER, you should invest a couple hours HERE, asking the simple question, "What can I do to ensure that my BW is assured of the changes I have made to my life and my commitment to our marriage." The folks here would be happy to give you the protective actions you should be taking, so you could poresent them to HER before she has to ask them of YOU!
Stick around, dude. The folks here are not all that awful.
And as a start, let me remind you of something:
My concerns are being able to find another job in this economy, losing our house, and being able to set a budget when we still haven't had "extra" money at the end of the month, even with 2 incomes.
Do you not understand that those same agonies are part of her life right now as well, and she did nothing to deserve it?
I hope to see you here tomorrow.
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LongHaul, first remember that what you're doing is hard. Not that you're a failure at it. It just takes time to learn to do things differently (meaning: better) than the way you'd gotten accustomed to doing them.
You've done some hard things -- things I never had to do. I never had to leave my job. My wife & I had exposed the affair to a dozen people within the first month, but none of them were our parents or our kids. I'd done a no-contact letter, but it wasn't a perfect one. The first marriage counselor we got connected with just happened to give us Surviving An Affair as our main text. My point with all this is, I was more lucky than "good" in a lotta ways. In other words, I wasn't good enough on my own. Almost no WS is at the outset. Some of the action steps that are being recommended to you, it took me months to appreciate the importance of doing....My worst worry is that my wife is going to draw the line when I'm at a low point. I want to support my wife through the positives and negatives and be united with her. Any suggestions on how to control my reaction to her when she draws a line, when emotions are high on both sides?
(1) Do a sound-check. First, every time you're talking with your wife, first tap yourself on the chest as a reminder to step outside yourself & listen to yourself the way others might hear you. In our second session, the counselor told me that the way I was talking to my wife in our session was "intimidating." And the thing was, I hadn't even realized it! I was expressing some perfectly valid thoughts, but because of my tone of voice & my body language, my wife was clamming up, because I was coming off sounding like some kind of aggressive thug, even though that wasn't my intent at all. If your voice gets raised, then this can cause emotions to run "high." A takeaway for me was that it's better just never to raise your voice. That's a non-moving goal line with no guesswork involved for you. Just don't raise your voice with her, ever, and you'll never have to worry about sounding "heated." In MarriageBuilders terms, raising your voice is a love-buster. Tap yourself on the chest every time & just don't go there.
And if she raises her voice? Well, she should try not to, but she's human, too, and if she does, you just look her in the eye & take it with a gracious humility.
(2) Take the lead. If you're worried about how you react to her drawing lines, one way to deal with this is to get out in front of things, by drawing lines yourself, as well as by asking her about things you could do for her, or do better, including asking her about lines she thinks need to be drawn. If you mom or someone else isn't being properly supportive of your wife, then before you respond, you at least do a compass-check by consulting with StrongerMe. If someone denigrates your wife, then you don't even need to do a compass check -- you just don't put up with that kind of talk at all, and you make clear to everyone in your circle that there's no daylight between you & StrongerMe. The way you be united with her is, you BE united with her in this way. In MarriageBuilders terms, this is following the Rule of Protection.
(3) Keep scheduling your UA time. This is gonna continue to be a challenge for you guys, 'cuz of the kids, the job-search, etc. It sounds like you've been doing pretty well at this. It's important that you continue to schedule your time together so it doesn't slip. Within this, it's also a very good idea (for both of you) to schedule the times when you're going to talk about unpleasant or difficult issues, such as those having to do with the affair. (I know it's said that once the facts of the affair are established to the betrayed spouse's satisfaction, then the affair shouldn't be brought up after that. Well, thing is, a betrayed spouse doesn't necessarily know right away what info she needs to know. Sometimes it takes weeks or months for her even to figure out all the questions she wants to ask, and it's likely that she won't have figured them all out at once. If there was 'trickle-truth,' then this can drag things out.) If she wants to discuss his stuff, you guys should agree to set aside some time, so that neither of you feel "ambushed" by having the conversation go there unexpectedly. When either spouse feels "ambushed" during a conversation, that can get the emotions running high. And there should be a scheduled cut-off point, so that talk of the affair doesn't dominate your UA time -- because most of the UA time should be "fun" time when you can reconnect with one another & meet each other's emotional needs.
LongHaul, I wanted to know that my wife wasn't going to decide to cut me loose & cut her losses. I wanted to know that the work I put in would be rewarded with her sticking by me, and the funny thing was, I wanted to know it even though I hadn't finished doing the work. I was asking for certainty from a woman who was on the wild roller-coaster of emotional swings. One day she'd be feeling strong, and the next, she'd be wanting to curl up in a ball & sob at what had happened to her husband, to her marriage, to her. She didn't know how she was feeling from hour to hour, and there I was, asking to know how she'd feel in 6 months. 'Nuff said on that.
Our marriage counselor told me to imagine myself hacking through a dense jungle to get to my wife. In the scenario, I didn't know exactly where she was - I could hear her, but I couldn't see her. I didn't know how far I'd have to hack, and I wasn't 100% sure she'd be there, but I had to keep swinging the machete til my hands were blistered & bleeding, and I just had to keep cutting & slogging, day by day, week by week. And you need to trust that that effort -- sticking to your EPs, attending to her needs -- will be worth it. Or think of a wide receiver in football: The QB throws the ball before the receiver even makes the break in his route, and so the receiver has to run a precisely timed route & make his break with the ball already in the air behind him, on the way to the reception point -- he has to trust that when he turns around, his QB will have put the ball right on the spot so the the ball will be there with room for him to catch it. On every play. Through a whole grueling season.
You have to trust her the same way -- every play, every day. You want to re-earn trust, so you've gotta be willing to give her your full trust. You've got to trust that she won't draw any lines that you can't meet.
You guys are doing lots of good things. Take encouragement from this.
Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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LH - please consider some strong action with your mother that says her relationship with you and her grandchildren are in jeopardy if she persists in her attitude toward your wife and your actions to protect her.
She has NO RIGHT to intrude into your marriage the way she is right now and strong boundaries set by you will only endear you to your wife, which she needs, and you also need.
The relief that your consistent enforcement, including, if needed, ZERO contact between you, your extended family and your most important family until Mom comes around will be amazing.
This is one small action you could take today to seriously impact your recovery for the positive!
Last edited by KaylaAndy; 12/31/12 06:13 PM. Reason: clarification of who gets cut off from whom!
Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1 The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"? The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!" If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
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My wife and kids haven't seen my parents in over two weeks. I am going to have a sit down with them on Thursday or Friday of this week. Thanks for your input.
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Just to let everyone know thanks for your inputs. When we first started posting, some of the post made me mad. As I go back through and reread it is like reading something different. My wife says my frame of mind is different. I am just trying to listen to her and we monitor and adjust as we go through everyday. I am still not comfortable with posting but I am doing it for her healing and I am hoping that it will get more comfortable each time I post. I really appreciate everyone that is trying to help us.
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My wife says my frame of mind is different. I am just trying to listen to her and we monitor and adjust as we go through everyday. Longhaul, that is the perfect approach and I promise it will make your road much easier. That is a GREAT SIGN that your wife already sees a difference. That means you are making progress. I hope you do continue to read and post. This is not going to easy for you or your wife and there are alot of folks here who will be glad to help. We are all in your corner, hoping for the best.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Very good news 
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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LongHaul, it is nice to see you posting here. Please know that the people here have been where you are, and they have been helping many people for a long time, so their expertise and guidance will help you and your marriage more than you could imagine. I know it is "odd" to post to a forum of strangers, but this one is just different. Everyone here has/had marriage problems and genuinely want to help others. I hope you can get comfortable just opening up and letting MelodyLane, Glove Oil and the others help. It is a common sense, no excuses, completely honest and humbly open way, and it works!!! Happy New year to you and your family.
BS Me 47,WH 49
DS's x3 17, 10, 7
Multiple D-Days
No disclosure by WH. No EP's, no transparency, no guilt or remorse either.
Plan C DOES NOT WORK!
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I sat down with my wife tonight and said I was going to write about what we were doing for recovery on Marriage Builders to my mother.
In this letter was going to be the following:
Three things I am to do from my wife:
Quit my job: Done 19th of December.
Motorcycle is for sale with no intentions of every buying another one or my wife every riding with me again. Never to bring up again. My wife will decide if we ever talk about it again.
No alcohol: Done since November
Have the EP�s in place that I will go by the rest of my life because I have shown I need them because of my infidelity. From learning in the MB program, all couples need to have them so they have precautions to keep a healthy marriage.
15- 20 hours a week with my wife one on one.- Have been doing weekly
Our family will go to church.- Have been doing for a month
Daily Family devotion after our girls do their bedtime routines. - Started last night.
Recreational companionship each week.- Filled out our Recreational Companionship form and have goals set.
Doing the MB online program weekly. We have a coach that we are meeting with and setting goals weekly.
Posting on the forum. � Hate it but I do it for my wife. Made a negative comment about it last night then apologized. I do not apologize unless I am wrong. Made a post. Wasn�t so bad and I am doing it again.
We have planned a weekend vacation with my wife and 2 girls this weekend. Everybody will have each others undivided attention.
I need my mother and father to support this if they want us to recover. I do not want my mother to say anything positive or negative about my wife. I do not want my mother to have any communication with my wife in anyway. The best way they can support us is to have no contact and pray that we follow the MB program and recover our marriage.
As for my daughters, they saw my mother pointing her finger in my wife�s face out the window. My youngest went out the back door and was listening to them arguing outside at the car. My children saw this. This is not something that has been fabricated or twisted by my wife. They are upset and want an apology from my mother to them and my wife. I do too.
I drove up at the end of this, When I got out of the car, my wife walked in the my mother told me. �This is your family and you need to do what you need for them. I am staying out of it.� My mother hasn�t had any contact since then. This has been two weeks.
I understand the goal line changes for us. I feel everything is going good and my wife draws a box where I am standing. She tells me this in �Not good enough for her.� I do not feel I can move forward, left, right or backwards. I have never done well on ultimatums but because of the pain I have caused my family I am trying to do what we need for recovery.
My wife and I are going to talk this over tonight and have joint agreement before anything is done.
Please read her post because there are two sides to every story.
My statement and question to my wife is: I am going to talk to my parents and communicate this. This is what we need and expect from them. I do not care if anybody supports MB. I do. I want to work through positives and negatives with her, hand in hand, united against any obstacles. I truly feel it is the only way we are going to have recovery or I would be doing it. Can you please not have a reaction to where it seems there is an ultimatum immediately? I don�t care if my mother supports is or not. I am doing MB. We have enough to be working on in our own house without having to go to another house and tell them. I am and will take the letter tomorrow and sit down with my parents and tell them this is what we need.
My question to you all is: What do I need to do in addition or deletions of this for my wife to recover? One of my problems with posting is it seems like I should be asking my wife this but she wants me to post. Thanks again for any input.
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Longhaul, I understand your trepidation in posting. My ...(dare I say it) FWH, Kiss, did not like posting for some time. But now understands the need for him to do so and my need for him to post here.
Think of it this way. Your BW is a rookie cop on a dark street dealing with a situation unknown to her. Isn't fair to accept that she needs some seasoned cops around to back her up?
I know I feel a lot better knowing that Kiss has people who will help him help me.
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Longhaul, I applaud your intent, but I think this agenda misses the point. What is missing here is a request for some simple basic respect and support for your marriage. Your mother has not shown that so far. I don't believe giving her such a list addresses that issue at all and actually serves as a distraction from the real problem.
Your mother has caused enormous harm to your wife and was actively striving to prevent the recovery of your marriage. She has blamed your wife and even tried to enlist your own children against her. Your wife is devastated at the damage she has inflicted. Your mother has made a very traumatic time all that much harder with her negative, toxic influence.
When someone behaves in such a destructive, cruel manner, in my opinion, an apology is warranted.
While you can't force someone to make a sincere apology against her will, it would go a long way if you insisted your mother apologize.
Telling her how much damage she caused and asking her to show some respect by apologizing to your wife and daughters will teach her to be more careful about what she says in the future.
Standing up for your wife when your mother bullies her is your job as a husband and a father. THAT is what your wife needs to see. She needs to see that you won't tolerate your mother bullying her anymore. If you do that, I predict your mother will watch her mouth and your wife and daughters will relax around her. And that is what you want, don't you?
Your mother was out of line, LongHaul. Don't let her do this to your wife again. Take care of your wife first.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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