But it was silly of you to agree to that. Why are you making decisions that don't benefit you both? You didn't want the first part of the decision and he did not want the second. So it was a terrible decision!

The point of this exercise is to find activities to do together, not apart. A better plan would have been to go to the gym together and find things to do together. Get a babysitter [many gyms have babysitting services] and go out together.

What other things does he like to do?

Following POJA

The basketball-for a date deal is a key example of 'taking it in turns to sacrifice'

Instead of watching the kids, you could have gone to work out with him too = mutual benefit.

And instead of 'us time' that only you want, choose something he finds fun = mutual benefit.

Don't take it in turns to be unhappy! Choose to both be happy at the same time!

The Policy of Joint Agreement

He is happy. I am not. I expect reciprocation, which comes naturally between equals who want the best for each other. He has little desire to give or learn. I'd never sign onto a friendship so devoid of basic altruism. How can I operate in a marriage without being there for him or being romantic towards him? I don't completely despise him, yet. I just want a give and take. I used to just give, and that was fine by him. And now I want something back, which apparently isn't ok because he hasn't enthusiastically agreed(even when he has) to give me anything.

It was no sacrifice on my part. He loves b-ball, and he plays with other men, which is fine by me. It was his suggestion, and I was happy to fulfill that need for him. I want him to be at his best. Watching our children is nothing that would make me unhappy under the agreement we made. We do many things we both love. We go on dates every other week. We going camping with friends. We cruise. We watch movies every other night. Lot's of mutual fun going on here. Fun is not our issue, we've got that down. We got along great on that level. Probably work out wonderfully as LD best friends or something. It's romantic intimacy that is an issue.

teetering, it is an expectation in marriage that your needs will be met. It should be done in a way that your spouse is enthusiastic about. If a spouse refuses to meet your needs - on any conditions - then Dr Harley recommends a separation. He lines out his plan in this article. He did add one thing when he discussed this on the radio, and that is that the spouse write a "PLan A" letter outlining what she needs to be happy.

When to Call It Quits (Part 1)

Ok. What is this Plan A letter, and what happens when it gets dismissed? And why would he refuse to meet my needs like this? I can't recall when it wasn't like this between us. Why be with someone if you don't want to care for them in a way that makes them feel most cared for?

Ok, yes. I missed this. We do many things together that are mutually enjoyable and this is the strength in our relationship. We love going out to eat together, and traveling, and we go to friend's houses most weekends together. We still enjoy frequent date nights, more than we actually were dating. That area of our lives is OK. Little of this time is undivided attention time, and like I said, he pretty much can't even stand the thought of too much of that. I think he wants a playmate(a woman who is athletic, and runs and jogs, and lifts weights...lol)He's not like that at all although he's more physically active than I am, but he imagines himself that way, and neither am I. And I just get the sneaking suspicion that I'm not enough of what he actually wanted, and so he keeps his distance. Then again, he has told me that he was like this with his exes, and worse, as well.

That is not what you said earlier:


So which is it? You have great fun and spend lots of time together or spending time with you is hideous?

teetering, it sounds like you both are stuck in that all-too-common rut of sacrifice and frustration. you can, however, turn this around.

first, you need to eliminate all LB behaviour. this isn't going to be easy when you're so frustrated and angry, and have a history of meeting his needs while he doesn't meet yours. however, you need to create an environment where he is happy to be around you. btw, no one said it was fair that the put-upon spouse has to be the one to start the hard work. however, if you want your M to survive - no, to be a happy one - someone has to start somewhere.

as mel and indie pointed out, your H needs to be aware of the benefit for him to buy into the programme. you do know that MB has a whole lotta videos to complement the books? my own H is NOT a reader, but he will happily watch the videos. i also read aloud from LB and HNHN and we discuss the questions at the end of the chapters. the trick is to do this in small doses, and not as UA time - you want UA time to be mutually pleasant/fun/exciting.

right now, you are both in a place where you are both so frustrated that you just want to hurt each other. we understand this; we have all been there. but you have to turn this around. you CAN do it, and we are here to help you follow MB so that you can do it. there are going to be times where you will feel it's not working or feel frustrated because he doesn't respond the way you're *hoping* he will.

MB takes the frustration level of this (the lack of/not the one you want) response. the EN questionnaires help you communicate, effectively and explicitly, exactly what you need and how you need it, both of you. yes, at first it does feel fake/forced, because you are learning new habits. but once habits become established, they are real. and you will find that you are getting exactly what you want - and so will he!

we have been led to believe that if someone loves us, they should just "know" what to do/say. but this is not the case at all. you cannot have your needs met when your spouse doesn't explicitly know what they are and how to do it. while it may seem "wrong" in our make-believe-love society, there is nothing wrong in telling someone exactly how to meet your needs! it's really no different from telling your hairdresser how you want your hair styled, or your colleague the result from a task completed.

it's not easy. it's actually really hard. but the payoff of a mutually satisfying M is worth the hard work. like my momma used to say: nothing worth having is easy.

so the question is: are you up to it? or is your LB$ so empty you are ready to leave? there is nothing wrong with a decision to leave. you are the only person who can know what your status is and which decision will be the right one for you. we will not harass or shame you for deciding to leave. MB is not about M at all costs. but if you decide you want to give it a go, with all the work that entails, then we will help guide you.

Read the article.

It's not black and white. Spending time with me is not an issue, so long as the tv is on, or we have some other distraction, like other people to talk to. Spending 15+/UA is not the same thing. Talking to me one on one gets "boring" to him. Romantic gesture, unless you consider dry humping me while I try to cook, are out of the picture.

What need is not being met Teetering? If he enjoys doing things with you, that is UA time...

I am guessing, but by 'romantic intimacy' do you mean his spending time conversing you and being physically affectionate and giving you romantic gestures like notes, flowers, etc?

He probably sees no need for those things at all and thinks you should 'know' he loves you without those gestures. Its a common mistake.

How serious does he think you to be? Is it possible he thinks your needs are a whim or does he know you are unhappy enough to leave?

Well, we have given you the necessary tools to resolve your problem. Now it is up to you use those tools or not. We can't force you to use them obviously. Good luck!

Is he possibly trying to avoid lovebusters?

If you were to say: "what would make it less boring?" What would his response be?

I presume he talked when he courted you, what made it interesting for him back then?

Not sure. He'll say, "talk about something different". So I'll ask what he wants to talk about and he'll say "nothing". Or, I may change the topic and immediately lose him. No win so far except to not talk to him unless he wants to talk and has initiated.

Have you ever put it as baldly as this:

"I fell in love with you because of your intelligent conversation. I miss it very much, and sad to say..I am falling out of love as a result.

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL about conversing with me like when we were dating?"

If he says: "Well if I have to.."

Say: "Oh no, no. I want to find out if it is something you want to do. Is there anything about when we dated that made conversation easy for you?"

Keep digging for his radically honest perspective. Without his perspective, or enthusiasm, you can't resolve that.

The POJA steps will help.

Do you know the POJA steps?

let's try that a different way.

1. what have you tried to talk about where he's said he doesn't want to talk about it anymore? a few specific examples.

2. when he initiates, what does HE talk about?