I am curious as to how many of you knew the Other Person? If so, did any of you go through periods where you compare yourselves to this person? The OW in my situation is 20 (10 yrs younger), thinner, financially free, was a virgin, etc., and I can't help but compare myself to her. I try to see me through my husbands eyes, and then I realise that I can't compete. It just makes me so angry, and sad.

Hi Raenbow<P>I knew my H first OW (she was his close friend and work companion for 3 years - I met her H, went to dinner at her place, talked to her, met her kids etc.) and I spent a lot of time comparing myself to her. Waaaayyyyy too much time, if you ask me. She was older than my H by a few years, and I used to think she was "more experienced", better looking, sexier ... all the rest. This was until I realised, the only thing that really mattered was WHY my H wanted to be with her, then I saw it was other things, and he told me about them, like communication styles, and stuff like that. The same reason why he was attracted to OW 2. (I have only met her once, seen her twice, and spoken to her on the phone at his workplace once). Then I realised all I was doing was hurting myself comparing them to me, and once I started to see them as sad, confused women, who were lost in their own marriages, it make it easier for me. I might have been lost in my marriage as well, but I chose not to hurt anyone else, not to be unfaithful ... that made me a stronger, more beautiful person than them, and I was wasting my energy comparing myself to them - it was better spent confronting the reasons why my H didn't feel so close to me, and improving myself. I try not to think about them at all now, or just think of them as unhappy people, without the courage to change their own lives.

Thanks sosad.<P>I know it's wasted energy, but I can't help myself. The strange thing is, once I get angry enough, all I want to do is invade her life, tear it inside out like she has done to me. Like a mother bear protecting her cubs, I want to strike out. But I don't, for I know that any sense of satisfaction is fleeting. The real target should be my husband and his actions.

Hey Raenbow .... just read your profile, and realised we must be almost neighbours ... (well, in a global sense anyway)- not many vegemite eaters here on this forum!<BR>Remember, it's not long since discovery for you ... I have only able to get to where I am through time, and seeing a counsellor myself to work through my own feelings. I have been through the whole range of feelings to get where I am now .... from hatred of the OW's, to jealousy, desire for revenge, wanting to tell the other H's, Anger, despair .... you name it!! I think my counsellor should be commended for preventing murder!!! (I started posting a few months ago ... if you read some of them, you will see that I've been there too.) Now, I am so glad I didn't waste my energy, and everytime I think of them, I try to picture them as sad, confused women ... <P>....like a wonderful looking, shiny, crisp apple that you can't wait to bite, then once you do, it has a not so great bruise in the middle. Yuk!! I might not look so great, but I'm crispy all the way to the centre!!!! And I'm working on improving my quality control, so I can only become more appealing!!!

G'day, sosad. I can't imagine ever being as calm about this as you are. I can't imagine thinking of this episode of my life sometime in the future without an ache in my heart, or anger, or dispair.<BR>Yesterday i had to ring the OW. I needed to know if she was pregnant. It was the only thing i could think of that would explain my H erratic behaviour. Well, she wasn't. Am i relieved? I don't know. Anyway, she kept me on the phone for over an hour. Surprise, surprise- it appears that my H had been lying to her as well. It seems he told her that we had seperated over a yr ago, and that the divorce was pending. She couldn't belive that he had been coming home to me all this time. Anyway, late that night she rocks up on my door-step to confront him. Explained that he wasn't living here and walked her over to his mother's place. He wasn't home, but mom was. And she invited the OW in. AAAGGGHHH! It appears that the OW didn't believe what i had told her, and that she came to confront my H, to see for herself what the truth was. H's mom confirmed what i had told her. I left then.<BR>And today, for the first time in two weeks i have not tried to contact my H. I don't know what i feel, or how i survive each day, but hope to feel your peace soon!<p>[This message has been edited by Raenbow (edited November 07, 1999).]

G'day back to you Raenbow!<P>You will feel peace sometime ... I know I felt exactly the same as you a few months ago. I still die a bit more inside each day, carry a knot inside always, and whenever I see him my heart is in so much pain, but I'm tired of all the anger, the hurt ... one day, you just realise you are not getting anywhere, and you are destroying what self-esteem and self-worth you had left, then you move on to looking after yourself, while looking at what caused the problems in the first place. And if you have to do this without your H, as I am now, there is not a thing you can do about it.<P> But one day, the despair, tiredness and pain just seem to catch up with you .... I have lost the last 6 months of my life to this, I have cried, despaired, hurt, it had taken over my life .... now I still hurt, and cry ... but it no longer rules my life. It was destroying me, and I decided I was too tired, that I still loved my H, but I could only be the best I could be, and if that wasn't ok, then there wasn't a thing I could do about it. I have grown and learned so much amongst all this pain .... If someone had told me this 6 months ago, I would never, ever have believed them.<P> One day at a time, is the only way to go. And keep reading and posting here - the time difference is a pain, but there are so many wonderful cyberfriends here for support - they listen to your ranting and raving, and are great. Seems to take a little while to warm to this place, and become a part of it, but it has been the greatest support to me, because I can say anything, (and sometimes the feelings are really outrageous or weird), but SOMEONE is bound to have felt the same way, or been there and understands. And even those people who have been "betrayers" for want of a better word, who are really trying to learn something and change their lives, can help us learn so much. You just need to get past your pain, so you can be honest with reflection on things. I have "out of body experiences" when I try to look at my situation through other eyes, my H's mostly, and if I get through the pain, and be honest, I learn so much. Post here instead of committing murder!!! Or just read, and learn. It also really, really helps to make that pivotal step and seek out counselling for yourself - that was really hard for me, but has saved my sanity - they don't bite ... really!!! <P>Hey ... Interesting to hear about your visit from the OW. Love to hear what your H says when confronted with the truth she has discovered. Sounds like he has a bit of a problem with the honesty thing!!! Don't they all!! Maybe his bubble is about to burst!!!<P>The best thing now is to be loving towards him if you see him, and not scare him off ... working towards resolution of the problems comes later. It seems that they are as confused as us sometimes .... and in lots of pain as well, deep down, even though it seems like they are just out for self-gratification, at our expense.<p>[This message has been edited by sosad (edited November 08, 1999).]

Well sosad, I've got an update for you now.<P>H was shocked to hear that OW turned up, and rubbed my face in it, so to speak. He also wasn't very happy that she waltzed over to his moms. He didn't call her or acknowledge her actions the next day when he returned home.<P>On the Monday, his first day back at work from leave (I discovered on our first night of what was supposed to be a perfect holiday)she rang his work, to have it out. In order to prevent a scene at work he told her he'd see her that night. He was with her less than 2 hrs. He told me there were many 'How could you....". He told her that he thought of her everyday, and missed her everyday, but wasn't sure if he was missing her, the individual person, or her- the idea of her, the thrill of her, the one without the bills to pay, the responsibilities of running a home, looking after a baby, etc. He said that this hurt her alot. He ended their conversation by saying that he wasn't going to call her anymore, but that if she wanted to call him, that was her choice.<P>I know this for tonight I invited him over to talk about some financial arrangements and issues regarding our D. At first he tried to avoid my calls to his work, so when he was due home I turned up at MIL and waited for him. I explained what I needed to see him about and he reluctently agreed to come to the house and talk.<P>Once home, he sat sullenly on the lounge, could not look me in the eye, and hardly spoke a word. I started off by saying that I loved him, that I had married him for life, and that if he didn't want that it was his choice, that I couldn't change his mind. 'Fair enough' he replied. UGH. How frustrating. So I persisted. I explained that due to our current seperation, changes had to be made.<P>Let me explain what I mean....H and I are both shiftworkers. This is something I'm sure contributed to a marital breakdown. Anyway, since D arrived, H and I have purposely tried to alternate shifts, so while one's at work the other is home with the baby. This has worked well for the baby, and in hindsight, for the affair. Now with us not together, and until now, not talking, the current arrangement would have to change. As I have custody of our D, I will have to give up shiftwork. I'm lucky in the sense my employer is able to accomadate my needs, whatever they may be. I explained to him my 2 options and asked his input. Still no enthusiasim or feedback. Asked him why he wasn't being open with me. He explained that he was being careful as I have a tendancy to over analyse things, and he didn't want me to read anything into his comments.<P>And so I tried another method of reaching him. I explained that my first prioity was to our D, and that she would need me now. I could throw her in daycare 5 days aweek, but that I would regret it later, as I would never make this time up. I explained that I thought a 10 month old was too young for daycare, and the cost of daycare for a child under two was astounding. I told him that for D sake I wanted to become a stay at home mom. Did he support me? Yes he did. He started to involve himself in the conversation, and before long, was talking to me like old times. He also was looking at me when he spoke. progress?<P>Anyway, I then said that I wanted something positive to come out of this mess i've found myself in, and that while i'm playing MOM full time, I should study at University. This way, no matter what happens, I benefit too. He then said that it was an excellent idea, as it would be the best for D and I. He said that since he wasn't ready to work on us, nor did he know if he wanted to, or if he ever would, that we (D & I) should do whatever we needed to. <P>He said that if he had to make a decision about us now, he doesn't think it would work.(stabbing pain). He then told me he lied, and that the affair actually started while I was in Hospital having stomach surgery (5 mnth pregnant). So the affair has been going on for 1 yr and 2 months. He said that he had to work out somethings, and that until he did, he was useless to everyone, including our D. He told me to go to Uni (the one I want to go to is in Queensland - another state), work on my needs, and that if he missed us, or thought he had made a big mistake, he'd come find us.<P>He broke down crying, and I held him like a baby. I told him that he'd need to learn to forgive himself before he'd accept my forgiveness. I told him that he was not doing too well on his own, and that he should seek a counsellor, one that he likes, to help him.<P>He claims he doesn't want a divorce, not ready for that yet. Well, it seems he is quite happy for this little family to dis-appear. And MIL is happy for us to go too. She reasons that only absence will make him realise what he is risking, and where he should be. If we were to get a Divorce tommorrow, then I would be following this course of action. I read in one of the posts that you should do whatever it is that you'd do if you were divorced, while you're seperated, so that you're not just sitting around waiting for something to happen. Well, I guess I'm off to QLD.<P>Having said that, I know that logically, leaving is the best thing, but emotionally, I want to hold on to the hope. I feel that by leaving, i'm leaving my hope behind too.<P>He says that he does not want to involve himself with her, and that he just wants time on his own. He might date her, but that it won't be anything serious, not, at least, until he is over us. (wow!)<P>He also said that nothing was irreversible, that no action couldn't be undone. He also made some quip about me not wanting to date for a year or two, which would be enough time for him to make his mind up, and fix us if he wanted to.<P>The messages he sent were confusing. On the one hand, he was happy to see us go, but not ready to sever all ties. And the same with the OW. Even though he left on a friendly note, and that he had opened up, I feel no closer to him, no more hope than before.

Hi Raenbow<P>Sorry for your pain right now. There are so many similarities in our stories.... I used to have a really long and detailed profile, but shortened it recently, so you probably don't know all my details. But...<BR> <BR>I also used to work shift work, fitted it in around H hours - he worked fixed hours. Like you said - good for the kids, no good for the marriage.<P>I had to give up shift work, and take an acting-up job which cut my hours in half, in order to accomodate the kids when all this blew up.<P>Discovery for me was when we were on the "perfect" weekend away, celebrating our 11th wedding aniversary, in the same place where we went for our honeymoon - how's that for timing!!!!<P>My H was/is still really confused about us -refused to go to marriage counselling, said he had issues of his own to work through, before he could even think about us, even though he didn't think there was much hope. He is having couselling on his own, with a counsellor he found, and this has helped him a lot - he is more at peace now. He also has cried with confusion, and I've cried with him and held him through his pain.<P>My H has recently signed a 6 mth lease on a unit, after housesitting for a friend for 2 months when he moved out. I went to see a solicitor, to find out where I stand, for financial protection for myself and the kids. H also says he doesn't want a divorce ... I have decided to sit back, and see what the next 6 months brings, there is no benefit in rushing things, and I still hope he will find his way back to us. If he signs another lease after that .... well, it will have been 1 yr since this mess began, and I'll look into things then.<P>I too was the one who had to make the practical arrangements re bank accounts, finances for everyday use etc...<P>Interesting the things he said about the OW .... my H also claims a need for time on his own .... The current OW in my H's case however was married herself, so he has had to break away from her ... at least she is not in my face all the time now ... I "cleaned" her out of my house, and told my H not to bring her back in (by mentioning her here again). So he is on his own, but not over her I don't think. I suspect a lot of it is also the "idea" of her... but dealing with the soulmate stuff is so painful. At least your H created a fantasy surrounding the OW, telling her you were separated etc. My H told OW he would give up everything for her ... she knew about me, had met me once, and our kids ... He told me he had found the person he wanted to spend the rest of his life with (Her)(and that was OUR wedding vow), that she had let him love her and then told him to stop, and that he couldn't -it was too painful... the warmth with which he spoke of her killed me ... I KNOW, had she been willing (and I still don't know if anything has progressed since he moved out, but I don't think so - she professed to love him, but was too scared to move out from her H - although I think she has been on the brink several times), he would indeed have simply walked out on everything for her (mind you, he went anyway..... )<P>Everything posted here, over the last few months that I've been here, says all contact with the OW must stop, if marriages are to be rebuilt. My H works very closely with the OW (same small office within a big company), so I suspect breaking away from her is proving really painful.<P>I'm not sure what is best ... distance (Plan B), or closeness (Plan A) - best read the info on this board. <P>The conflicting signals are painful I know .... I think they happen to us all <P>

G'day sosad.<P>Don't you just wish you could wave a magic stick and make the OW disappear? How much simpler life would be.<P>One thing that's got me thinking though, what if it's not him (H) that i'm in love with, but the idea of him? (wink, wink)

AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHH!!!<BR>Raenbow .... don't even think about going there .....!!!!!! That issue, about being "in love" has cropped up more times than I can remember here .... and it confuses me more each time.!!! <P>Making the OW disappear doesn't always solve the problems though ... the first OW in our lives disappeared, then, as it wasn't revealed .... up popped another one!!!!! Feel grateful you have this chance to work on your marriage, or grow and move on eventually ... I have so much more pain in my life because that opportunity wasn't given to me years ago ... AAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!