Sorry for not digging up my old thread, but I'm looking for some help with a specific EN right now. FS.

My DH went back to school about a year-and-a-half ago to earn his MBA with a dual Master's in Leadership. He's doing an online program so he can still work full-time. He's on his last class for the MBA portion of the program and then will start 5 classes for Leadership before he graduates next fall.

The problem is, he's been applying for jobs for the past year with no results. I know he doesn't have his degree yet, but the jobs he's applying for are more entry-level types and do not require an MBA (some don't even require a BA). And still, he has been unable to find a better-paying position, or even a position equivalent to his current one in an area with a cheaper cost of living.

I'm really beginning to get discouraged. I know he's trying, but nothing seems to be happening. He generates a lot of interest with his resume and gets a lot of initial interviews (all phone interviews because the jobs he is applying for aren't in our area). He says the interviews go well, but a week or two later, we always find out he is no longer being considered for the position.

Our lease is now up again in about 2 more months and the rent for our apartment will almost certainly go up another $50-$100 a month and we are already paying more than half our take-home pay in rent. There's no way we can afford to stay here, but there are very few apartments within commuting distance to his work that are less than what we are paying now. To make things even more complicated, we are in the middle of filing for bankruptcy and the discharge will not go through before our lease is up, which will make it more difficult for us to qualify for another apartment even if we can find a cheaper one.

I really don't know what else to do at this point. Our financial situation has never been good, but it's been getting progressively worse for the past 5 years. I have looked for a job to supplement DH's income, but the jobs I have found don't pay enough to cover daycare, so I would only be able to work nights and weekends. DH doesn't want me to do that, since it will essentially mean we will have little to no UA time. We are doing good on UA time right now. In fact, we're doing good with most of the EN's (other than SF, which has pretty much been non-existent for the past 2-3 years due to issues with ED).

I'm looking for help in trying to deal with my need for FS not being met. I'm getting to the point where I'm having a hard time believing it will ever be met, since this has been going on for so long. I don't have high expectations in this area. At least I don't think they're high. I just want a decent place to live and enough money so we don't have to constantly worry all the time. Right now, we don't have that. Our apartment is inadequate for our needs and still well-beyond our needs. Our cars are very old and unreliable. We almost always run out of money by the end of the month.

I'm trying really hard to lower my expectations for FS, but that's difficult to do when we can barely cover basic needs. This unmet need is affecting my feelings for DH. I never thought it was a top need for me, but it's moved up the list over the past few years as it is being met less and less.

I guess what I'm trying to figure out right now is, can I have a happy, fulfilling marriage if I have to accept the fact that some of my top EN's (FS and, to a lesser degree, SF) may never be met? How does one deal with feelings of resentment if their spouse attempts to meet an EN but is simply unable to?

A couple of things come to mind. Is he doing poorly on the interview and is just not aware of it? Or is he applying for positions that are beneath his skill and pay level, which means that others will do the job for much less money? Does the subject of money come up in these interviews? When they interview him are they aware of his current salary and salary requirements?

What is the unemployment rate in your area of interest and have you considered going to another state that has a lower interest rate?

Most of the interview stuff I don't really know, because I'm not there when he has the interview. He says the interviews go well. He's even told me that the interviewer has told him on several occasions that he was moving on to the next phase of the hiring process, but even in those cases, he found out about a week later that they were considering other candidates whose qualification more closely match what the company is looking for.

Maybe he is doing poorly and isn't aware of it. I don't know, since I only know what he tells me. I haven't asked him if the subject of money ever came up.

The positions he is applying for are generally in sales or account management, which he doesn't have any direct experience in. His only experience is in customer service, but it is a low-paying field so he wants to get out of it. He has had classes in his MBA program though that cover the areas he is looking at.

Most of the jobs he has been applying for have been in other states. We live in CA and it's too expensive to stay here. He's pretty much been applying all over. He's looking more at the job opportunities than location, just trying to get his foot in the door and get some experience in his area of interest. So probably, the unemployment rate where he's looking varies. We have tried to target areas though that have lower unemployment rates and areas we think we would like to live.

You know, it would be really hard to get a company to pay for a re-lo if he doesn't have experience in that field. What if he sent his resume into companies in his field [for a directors position] in a region that has a low cost of living?

If he has an MBA [almost] and experience managing call centers, I would target places like Tulsa, Oklahoma where there are lots of call centers. For example, Dish, AT&T and several other big companies have their call centers here. There are about 10 big call centers there.

Another idea is to find an MRI recruiter who specializes in his target field. They have very specialized fields, and as such, they usually know where all the good jobs are and can negotiate a moving package for him. They really go after people with great degrees.

Here it is: http://www.mrinetwork.com/

We have used them at my current and last company. I worked for them for a short time once back in 2000 and they had great resources. [horrible job - tied to a desk all day! I couldn't wait to get out of there.. ]

Thanks Mel. I'll pass on the suggestions.

Just to clarify though, he doesn't have experience managing call centers. He just has experience as a call center rep. He was applying for those types of jobs in other areas, but they were very low-paying. Many of them only paid $13-$14 an hour, and he makes a lot more than that here (mostly because this is such a high cost of living area so jobs pay more).

And we are definitely not expecting a relocation packet. He always makes it clear that we are willing to pay to relocate ourselves.

Does he have any friends, colleagues who could role play with him to see if there are any rough spots in his interview?

Also, he should do as much research as possible into the position before he goes and put together a 30-60-90 plan. It is really not hard to do, but it blows away hiring managers. They LOVE IT. It will put him heads above his competition.

Could he get good money for a high level director? He does have a background in call centers and is getting his MBA.


Would be nice if you could get a relo package, though!

I'm sure he does have people he could role play with. He's also talked about getting professional help with his interviewing skills, though I'm not sure how much that would cost.

What's a 30-60-90 plan? My DH might know. I have noticed that he doesn't always seem to know a lot about a company before he goes into an interview. I've asked him questions about the companies and he doesn't seem to know the answers. I've suggested researching the companies before he goes in for an interview and he said he would start doing that, but I don't know if he's done it or not.

I've suggested management or a supervisory position in a call center, but he's pretty dead set against it. We actually had a huge argument the last time I brought it up, so I dropped it and haven't mentioned it since. He just doesn't want to sit in an office anymore. He really wants to get into outside sales. I know it's harder to get into a field you've never worked in before, especially when you're applying to positions that are far away. But it's what he really wants to do.

And yes, a relocation package would be nice. It just seems like too much to hope for considering all the rejections he's already gotten even when he said he was willing to pay to move himself.

That would be SUPERB investment!


It is a plan of what the candidate would do in the first 30, 60 and 90 days on the job. It shows the hiring manager that you have a plan and are ready to roll.


Yes, he should be doing that. And if he can find anyone in the same position, he should speak to that person and get information about the job. If a candidate does not know anything about the company or the job, we tend to think they are lazy. They teach kids to do this in college and all of our recruits know alot about our company.

You are in a very tough job market. Tell him not to give up!! And he is wise to want to get out of that business if he hates it. I can understand completely. I could never endure being chained to an office.

Here is a description of the 30-60-90 plan:

http://www.ehow.com/about_5256735_30_60_90-business-plan-look-like_.html

Hi Writer1,
I had a couple of thoughts on your husband's goals and plan,

The first is that outside sales tends to depend on a network of contacts. I worked at a technology company as a pre-sales solutions architect. At that company, our sales reps were not hired for their sales skills but rather for their C and D level contacts. I have also worked as a manufacturer's rep, and it tends to be customer recommendations to the company that land those positions. It may make more sense to look for a field sales support role with an eventual goal of moving into the account rep role.

The second thought is that, many outside sales roles are primarily commission based pay, this can start slow even for experienced reps. Commissions can also be boom/bust if the product suite is at all seasonal. I'd not recommend entering the role from a position of finacial weakness.

My $.02,
Good Fortune to You!

Thanks, I just sent DH the link.

Thanks. I had the same concerns about commission, but DH says he is only applying to positions that state they are salary + commission.

He does do a lot of networking. He has spoken with a lot of the sales reps in his company as well as other reps in the dental industry. He has worked in the call center of a company that manufactures dental and orthodontic supplies for the past 12 years, so that's what he has the most experience in. He also does a lot of networking on sites like LinkedIn.

writer, is he looking at any pharma sales jobs? When I think of sales positions, I mean salaried positions. I have been in sales for 20 years and have never worked on commission. [salary + bonus] I know that most pharmaceutical sales positions used to be salaried. They were looking for science type degrees.

The recruiters in my own company really love those 30-60-90 plans. My former director was RAVING about them and promoted another employee because of the plan. I was just promoted in December and I think the 30-60-90 plan gave me an advantage over other candidates.

Have him do one on a PowerPoint. I had a summary and objective page and then one page for each time frame. It was 4 pages long. It shouldn't be complicated and it doesn't have to be RIGHT. They understand there are certain things the candidate is not going to know so they don't expect everything to be exactly right.

This is more medical equipment sales, well actually orthodontic equipment. Braces, brackets, the tools used to put them on, stuff like that.

Most of the reps in his company have business or sales degrees, and his company is base salary + commission.

In my company we like sales reps with degrees in finance, marketing, business, agriculture. We are not too choosy. My friends who went to the pharma companies had science degrees.