GJM's thread is actually the most extensive, devoted Plan A I can recall.

Sorry NG, just reading between the lines of your message.

Flowers and gifts? Really?I get the whole EN needs things and agree, but there must be other ways? Only reason I question it is that I am trying to empathize with her right now? Sitting at work, her work friends know her situation (not the A) and she gets a big bunch of reds from me.

If that were me I would be like "uurgh just give up already, its over, stop being so desperate its embarrassing and not very attractive" Also its not really me, it may appear I am trying too hard.

Perhaps a nice letter or note would suffice, or a cd with a playlist designed by my own hand, songs that we both cherished in our "loving years"

I would send a dozen roses everyday if I thought she would appreciate them, but she will see right through it? No? Its just not me?

Roses and displays of affection are not your key EN, dude. For most women, they are near the top of the list.

Spin this around: Supposing you were the WH, and home, and BW met you at the door, dressed in a HOT nightie, with champagne (and maybe some energy bars) visible through the open door to the bedroom. Do you THINK you might have thoughts about rethinking your waywardness? (Note: SF is to males what affection is to females.)

Stop over-thinking this, dude! Send the damn flowers.

Thanks NG. Here is GJM's thread

GJM's thread

NG, your hilariously correct. Send the flowers man, one thing you need to remember when you are in PLAN A. Do not have any expectations! You will be filling her ENs to entice her to fill yours. This can take a long time. Trust me, sent my wife flowers, poems I wrote and she would get mad but accept them. One time I sent her a love note and she got mad and told me to stop it. However, I found that love note along with the poems in a secret hiding place she had. Guess what, they are still there. I know she reads them and looks at them her anger is because I won't bite her baiting in arguments. It destroys the whole perception of "the evil husband" she has in her head.

I haven't perused this whole thread, but I just want to say I really DISLIKE flowers. Stop your over generalizing NG, you know I play the role of po po on the topic

If you have NO IDEA what your W's EN's are then err on the side of 'most common for women' but if you can rely on history to identify them more specifically, then fill them more specifically. If she has not been excited about a dozen roses in the past, it would be wasted effort now IMO.

Stop your over generalizing NG,

UW, your comments are NOT helpful. Perusing cannot be substituted for care and attention. If that seems brusque....

Thanks RQ. She loved flowers when I sent them, but that was very seldom - LaF

Flowers, yes.
And something more personal, like choosing a card that expresses your (formerly loving) relationship.
If you chose flowers, learn the "meaning" behind each type of flower. (This is available online), pick something appropriate, and tell her why you chose that particular flower in the note.
You could send her a gift certificate for a massage, "since I can't be there to do this myself right now..."
Fruit basket , "let's pretend we are on a picnic together."

Okay, just ideas, but something from your past you and she loved doing together. It is really the thought that counts. That is why if you send flowers, personalize it as much as possible...

Post your ideas! You have lots of good constructive critics here!

My 2 cents on flowers, and this is anecdotal.

When my wife began her affair I gave her flowers once a week. Never did her vase go empty. It didn't work. She would sometimes complain she didn't find flowers a good use of money. And she said very little about them.

When the fog lifted and she returned home (a year-and-half later), I again started buying her flowers. I delivered a beautiful vase of flowers to her work (I went to 3 shops to find the right one) and she and her coworkers loved it. She was so happy. Since then, I give her new flowers monthly, and she appreciates it.

Flowers aren't an emotional need for her, but the love and affection that goes into the gesture means a lot to her. I am careful to get her the kind of flowers I know she will like. I have asked for her input on what she likes and that makes a big difference.

I don't know if she really remembers the flowers I bought for her when she was in the fog. Flowers were not going to solve my problem. But that was still an important step because it was a deposit into her love bank. The love bank at that time was in the negative, so a lot more deposits were needed, but one has to start somewhere, right? Once the fog lifted I was able to much more effectively make deposits.

Don't expect flowers to turn things around right away. These things take time. But DO begin to take steps to assertively execute your Plan A. You have to do something.

Because she is in an affair, you will need to use finesse. Don't suffocate her. Let your gifts and your thoughtful actions know that you care and that you love her. Don't expect a good response. Just take solace knowing you're fighting for your marriage.

Point taken on the flowers. I did not say 'don't send flowers' I said use history to identify what would satisfy her needs rather than generalizations. Sounds like the history here would dictate sending flowers.

Great tips from CatWhit.

This is my own personal thing about flowers, it is the 'cliche' gift to women and therefore, without some kind of personal accompaniment, seems rather insincere and unaffectionate to me. In the right environment (such as a foggy wayward who is focused on the poor treatment they have received in the past) it can almost be seen as an insult.

I agree that just sending flowers (especially roses) can come off as an insincere gesture. That is why you have to personalize it. Your goal is to show her you are thinking of her.

Myself, I am reminded of the executive saying to his secretary, "...and send my wife some flowers..., which can be so impersonal as to actually be an insult. My WH always sent me flowers on my birthday, our anniversary, and Valentine's Day, during his A, instead of making the effort to be with me. And he sold some of our retirement fund stock to fund his affair, including sending the Dolly flowers regularly, to her work, with a coded message. So now, I have an aversion to my (reforming) WH bringing me flowers. Sorry for the t.j, L&F. My point is, make any gesture personal to your marriage

My point is, make any gesture personal to your marriage...

How about this?

Two weeks before you are to arrive home, have delivered flowers with, "Can't wait to see you within a fortnight!" (That's two weeks for my fellow USA-ans!)

Then a week later, more flowers, with "Only a week to go!"

One more delivery the day before your arrival. (You make up the appropriate sentiment; I can't do all the work here!)

a love poem perhaps?

Chocolate dipped strawberries, a gift certificate for manicure/day at a spa/a massage, prepare her favorite dish for dinner?

L&F:
You okay?

Hi Cat.Thanks for the concern, yes am OK. Just been off the radar for a while as have been travelling a lot and really busy with an imminent acquisition at work.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. Certainly some good ideas.I don't want to appear ungrateful or like one of those BS that ignores good advise from people much more experienced at this than I am but I think flowers are not the right option at this point. It just does not feel right. In the future absolutely but not now.

Saying that though I do agree that I do need to do something to show my love. I need to start deposited units before the impeding exposure as much as possible. I've decided to compose a well thought through hand written letter accompanied with a personalized card and a gift certificate to a spa break weekend. This along with a compilation music CD with her favorite and new music. It would mean more to her than the stereotypical bunch of flowers.

So I have another predicament, or question?

In Feb I am due to head back to the UK for 10 days. As you may be aware I have been going back every 5 weeks or so. We were due to go on vacation as a family but my WW has informed me she no longer wants to go, too much pressure playing happy families and she doesn't want to go with me, period. She was happy to do this a few months ago but has recently changed her mind. She has said I should take the kids away somewhere on my own.

I love my kids dearly and any amount of time spent with them is like gold dust but taking a 4 and 1 year old away with me as the sole parent will be very testing. The flight is 8hrs and anyone who has been on a plane with a 1 year old can understand my concern. It will be time well spent but I fear the kids will miss their mother immensely and also will not be much of a relaxing vacation for me. Am I being selfish or fearing the worst for no reason?

Personally (or should I selfishly) if I cant go away with my entire family whats the point?

I have also since learned that during the time I am home my WW has arranged to go to a music concert. She has purchased two tickets and none of our friends or family are going. This particular artist appears to be the OM favorite musician. I can only assume they have arranged to go together. The band is known for its real mushy stuff. She has denied that she is going with him.

So my head is a mess of how I deal with this.

Should I:

1) head back, stay at home with WW and kids in a very tense and toxic environment and watch my WW go to this concert (knowing its with him)and not go on vacation
2) take my kids on vacation
3) Go on vacation on my own

Option 1 will allow me to spend time with my children and WW. It will however make me mad knowing she is going with OM. I wont be able to keep my mouth shut about it. Perhaps I should buy a ticket to this gig as well and fight this head on, but that may appear needy, pathetic and invasive. She will hate it.

Option 2 will allow me time with the kids but I will not get the chance to deposit LU with my WW. But it does show I am getting on with my life and I am not being reactive to her actions anymore. This is my life and I am taking control of it. My 4 year old will ask questions as to why their mother is not there.

Option 3, means I will not see my children or WW but I satisfy a selfish desire for a much needed break from the stress of work and family issues. I am almost at breaking point - what's going on between work and my personal situ is starting to take its toll on me mentally and physically (was hospitalized a few weeks ago for fatigue and stress), so this appears quite appealing at this juncture.

Perhaps my mind is so full of options and I am thinking too emotionally that I am not seeing the wood through the trees (am I in a different type of fog). Another view on this may provide that little bit of clarity.

Personally, I like option 1. Why not take along a buddy as well, a nice big one. lol. If I were you, I'd try to focus on getting WW to agree on the vacation by making some concessions, maybe separate rooms??? POSOM probably doesn't want her to go as he knows he can't compete. If you can get away and make LB deposits that would be huge.

When are you dropping the exposure bomb? I thought it was to be so that you arrived home just as the explosion occurred.

If so, that is NOT the time to be apart from WW, in whatever shape she will be.

Plan 1 is your best option.