don't let anything about ow throw you off, so what if she is a bully, you don't need to read anything take any calls, you revealed the truth nothing more.

See, now, here is where NG is at a HUGE disadvantage.

If JB were a BH, as opposed to a BW, I could be more forthright and rigorous with her.

- I could tell her to screw her courage in place and ignore any "retaliation" from OW, as what would be happening would not be "defamation", but "confirmation" of OW's character.

- I would point out that OW will fulminate, but the LAST thing she would want would be having to testify under oath about her affair with JB's WH.

- I would point out that exposure will include OW's BH, so that would be all the discussion needed.

But I can do none of this because inevitably it comes across as NG bullying a hurting BW. Would one of the female colleagues here please take the lead? Thanx!

JannaBell,

PS this exposure is also going to reach other OW by virtue of all the connections and Im afraid its going to bring all of them out of the woodwork in a panic that I will do the same thing to them. Just not sure its worth that.

Are these OW your WHs exOW???

God Bless
Gamma

Yes, a couple of them were side pieces to the OW Im now dealing with. The others are pretty ancient history.

Janna

here ya go, NG. i totally agree! what OW thinks/feels/believes doesn't matter. and how she responds is only of help to you! do not worry about fallout from exposure - it is what you WANT.

OP, you need to reestablish NC, first and foremost, so we can get you into a solid plan for your M. have you already sent the FB exposure letter you posted? if not, we may have some suggestions for it. if so, that's ok. i hope you are able to reach OWH.

ps: defamation of character requires you to be LYING about her. i'd say "go ahead and sue me." she'd be laughed out of court. sample testimony:

judge: you say that BW has defamed you. how has she done so?

OW: she told people that i had an affair with her husband and was still contacting him.

judge: did you have an affair with her H? you are under oath.

OW: well, i only slept with him x times. that's not really an *affair.*

judge: did you contact him after he (had NC)?

OW: but i only called him on the *phone* a few times as a *friend.*

judge, bailiff, lawyers, gallery: LMAO!

judge: case dismissed!

Janna,

Yes, a couple of them were side pieces to the OW Im now dealing with. The others are pretty ancient history

Did you ever think your WH is a serial cheater? Which can mean that your WH is not just addicted to one particular woman, but addicted to having affairs in general.

Did you consider giving your WH a polygraph?

God Bless
Gamma

I was in a similar situation ~ 10 months after recovery I discovered they were still in contact. Here is what I did:

1.) EXPOSE with no warning whatsoever to your H or the OW. This is crucial; no excuses.

Have your H write the NC letter but YOU send it. It is up to you but we decided together that I was not going to sign the NC letter because we did not want the OW to falsely believe I was "forcing" my H to write the letter. She is delusional enough as it is, we did not want her delusions to lead her to believe I was behind the letter. H wrote it all on his own and I ok'ed it and mailed it. We decided on this together.

If your H refuses to immediately enact EVERY possible EP (Extraordinary Precautions) such as changing and/or deleting every phone number, cell phone number, email address and anyotherpossibleway she is able to contact him, I suggest IMMEDIATELY and SWIFTLY going to Plan B (there is a How-To-Plan-B-Correctly sticky around here that I wrote and will describe in detail how to prep for Plan B).

Do not give him much time to think about whether or not he is willing to do these things. If he falters at all, PLAN B. This is a no-brainer and non-negotiable.

Do they still work together?

How many OWs does your H have???

Yes Gamma ....he was serial cheater. I explained that above. At the moment I dont feel the need for a polygraph because I dont think hes lying to me.

Janna

There were about 10. I dont remember exactly and dont have the list here.

Janna

Married Forever

Had you exposed originally or just when you discovered the renewed contact? I didnt see a template that fit that sitch. Do you by any chance have language for that?

Janna

He is a serial cheater with a lot of baggage. Are you sure you want to try to recover? This is going to be much harder and with much more risk than even a 2-3 affair-serial-cheater. Just want to make sure you know what you are up against.

What kind of remorse is he exhibiting? To be honest I wouldn't attempt recovery unless he is exhibiting serious, mind-boggling, crawling-on-the-ground-begging-for-another-chance remorse. He is going to be harder to crack than most.

I would absolutely add doing the MB online program as part of the non-negotiable criteria to even ATTEMPT recovery with him again. He has this down pat and he is going to need serious accountability in order to end his addiction with affairs.

I had only exposed to a small handful of people the first time because I did not know about MB. When I found out the 2nd time I went balls-out, nuclear exposure. I exposed to both H's entire family, my family and all of our close friends. I also exposed to the message board where they me,t and to the entire faculty at the school where OW works. I asked for everyone's help in putting pressure on them to knock it off and to give our family a chance. I then went straight to a pitch dark Plan B for 6 weeks and we have been in recovery/recovered for almost 6 years now.

MarriedForever

I am pretty clear on what we are dealing with. He is very remorseful but he also still has some foggy spots in his understanding of what we are dealing with.

He has worked very hard to put our M back together. What he went through to address his own abuse issues which led to him abusing me is something I wouldnt wish on my worst enemy. These were actually the issues that broke up our M more than the infidelity(of course that didnt help.)

I dont want to blow up all that progess. I am very concerned that the humiliation/anger he is going to experience if I expose like this is going to tap into the wounded childs humiliation/anger. Every instinct is screaming at me that this is not a good thing in our situation.

Janna

an aside to MarriedForever - that WAS THE most amazing exposure, EVER that I got to witness! WH, OW freaking, pleading for sympathy, then running for the hills! An amazing all-out assault on the affair, if ever there was one!

To Janna -

You're sure you're getting the truth now? How hard is he working to win you back? Is he even breaking a sweat? If he's not absolutely convinced that you're done, he will cheat again. And he still might, unless you're letting him do 100% of the investing in you, and your family for a very very long time.

I know what remorse looks like in a wayward-in-the-process-of-reforming. And I don't see it nearly as much as the betrayed spouse wants to believe it's real. Not even by a fraction.

IMHO, your H SHOULD be humiliated by what he's done. As you well know, lots of people suffer abuse as children and choose not to abuse others; your H could have chosen the same.

Instead he chose to abuse you, over and over. After all the work you have done, he COULD have chosen many things other than responding to the OW's contact: he could have told you what had happened, he could have immediately made it impossible for her to ever contact him again, he could have done a LOT of things other than hide it and not let you know. That is not a sign of recovery, that is a sign that he wants to keep his options open for continued affairs.

Unfortunately, when dealing with a serial cheater I think the WORST thing you could do is to keep it a secret. If you truly want to help him, then do what's been proven to end affairs IMMEDIATELY and FOR GOOD. He needs your helps and this is the best way for you to help him: expose this. He needs to know the world is watching him, it's his only hope to stay faithful. He has done this way too many times for you to even consider NOT doing it.

Yes, it was a good one and I wish we still had record of it from where I exposed....my MB thread is still here but the coolrunning thread that I exposed to is gone and that was the best part, LOL.

Actually the best part was that my exposure WORKED!

serial cheats are ingrained liars. here's a quick test (and i'm not being a smarty pants) is his mouth moving? trust nothing a wayward says unless you can verify it. this means if WH says it's sunny out, you gotta step outside and have a look.

janna, i'm not trying to be mean about it. i'm just saying that WH has a long history and fully ingrained habit of lying. if you decide to recover the M, you will have to verify. the good news is that verification will help create trust in your new relationship together, so don't discount it.

Janna, I am sorry you are here, welcome. You have already gotten great advice but there are things that jumped out at me that I would like to emphasize.

First, I would read the articles on this site and make sure you know this program well. Part of the reason you have never recovered your M and actually suffered MORE abuse at the hands of your WH is because you were basically doing things that Dr Harley would NEVER advise you to do.

Like
~ avoiding exposure (already has been covered by MF, she was spot on)

~ have a wayward spouse go to counseling to explore their childhood issues. No, no, no. This is not only a waste of time but can have disasterous results because it gives the WS a reason to make excuses for their poor choices -- when they should be taking personal responsibility for their actions

~ not implementing EPs. It is very clear if he has had that many affairs the CONDITIONS that made his affairs possible were never eliminated. The more affairs = more EPs that must be put into place. You need to tell us more about his 10 affairs so that we can help you develop an EP plan (who the OW was, how they met and how they conducted the affair, email, phone)

More to come...

Janna, if he is abusive to you, using angry outbursts, demands, & disrespectful judgements (sounds like from what you describe it is all of the above, infact, you sound scared of your H) -- this is UNACCEPTABLE. This needs to be your mindset, OK?

Like the infidelity, not only is this a lovebuster, damaging to your marriage, but Dr Harley would tell you that if your H has a history of this behavior with no personal responsibility and no plans to change that this is reason enough for separation because it is ABUSE and ABUSE is unacceptable..

Part of your plan should be recognizing your role in enabling/excuse making for your WH's behavior.