Hello. I am new to the forum but not the material. I found it and it is the one and only thing my husband likes when it comes to "marriage help".

We're in our 40's, my first marriage, his second. We've been together 8 years, married 4.

We have so many things to be grateful for, financial security, health....

Simply put, he is an amazing man but he is also prone to sudden moodiness, anger and has what I consider to be an extreme need for control. On the other hand he is not jealous, follows through on his commitments, works hard, helps around the house etc. All great stuff.

I am feeling desperate anymore and I am honestly at a loss what to do. I love him dearly but I'm not sure how long I can go on like this, I am getting depressed, started seeing a counselor on my own. My husband refuses counseling, he has read some of this material and liked it but it seems quickly forgotten. Things get better for a week and he seems to think we're "cured". To his credit he has made some improvements this year...after an incredibly bad episode last year, the worst I had ever seen.

So here I am.....

Our marriage goes through the same cycle...as long as I act happy and act according to what he finds acceptable things are great...my interpretation of course.

If I "violate" the unspoken rules...he gets annoyed, angry...and takes it out on me. He used to give me silent treatment, leave for days. He stopped this year but I still get yelled at, he will barely speak to me, and the worst is when he lectures me on what I "did" wrong. I do feel he is abusive towards me but he always turns it around and says its the way I asked or some other ruse.

I know this is a broken record...do we have any hope? Do I have any choice but to leave? I am in a world of hurt financially if I go, and I have no living family to move in with..I'm on my own entirely and out of work.

I don't know how I have woken up in this place in life.

Thanks for listening to me.

Hi Amy, welcome to Marriage Builders. Yes, your husband is abusive and yes, he can change if he wants to. Yelling at you and giving you the silent treatment in an attempt to bully you is an abusive tactic that has eroded the love in your marriage. yucko...

I would be honest with him about your unhappiness and see if he will go through this program with you. Will he post here?

The book you need the most is Lovebusters. I would get 2 copies, one for him and one for you. Go through the chapters, highlight key points with different colored highlighters and then exchange books. When you get to the end of each chapter, answer the questions.

I would also read this article and have a plan to do this if he won't stop his abusive behavior: When to Call It Quits - Part 1

Dr Harley might recommend that you start off by giving him what he calls a "Plan A letter" where you describe your unhappiness and explain how this is eroding the love in your marriage. Ask him to participate in this program and sign up for anger management courses. [Angerbusters is a good one] If he won't do that, then you should plan to separate as outlined in that article.

Welcome Amy and its great to know that you both are familiar with MB. There is no marriage that cannot be repaired if you are both determined to do it.

Have you tried the Policy of Joint Agreement(POJA)? What happens when you do this?

Thank you both!

I read everything and recently some books by Lundy Bancroft. I agree, I think his behavior is emotionally abusive at times. I'm not minimizing, just acknowledging where I put him on that scale.

What I think he is mostly, is emotionally immature and he cannot manage his own anger/frustration and I have come to strongly suspect he is VERY afraid I am going to leave him.

I'm not sure that gives me power as he says if I did (he wouldn't stop me) but he says if we fail he is too broken and plans on remaining single after me.

I have told him how/why I am unhappy. He finally started listening to me this year and we started marriage builders worksheets.

After he calmed down this week, I let him talk with no response. Surprisingly he talked for a long time...and He correctly acknowledged my issues....(my not feeling equal, walking on eggshells, feeling controlled, etc). He says I shouldn't feel that way, its unhealthy...

We spent the day together and he headed out on his trip (1 week). He agreed to restart the marriage builders work and stick to a schedule...he told me he does need to hear my concerns. I do think he wants to but when the specifics come out...he freaks out inside...I have tried so many different ways, I scratch my head anymore how to be honest, clear without making him spin out.

We had not fully implemented the POJA....I'm still a little confused about some of it (so is he). At this point I think we should try it 100%. I may post my question about that after I read it again and look through the Q&A etc.

He may agree to post here. He is very private and just won't accept "public" help but maybe he can get comfortable with the anonymity here.

As for me....I have financial concerns if I am on my own again....I have told him I may go back to work or do something to help me do so. I looked into more education last year, he went with me so its not a secret. It didn't work out and he asked me to not go back and work on our marriage instead. So I did.
Yesterday we talked, he doesn't want me to but he says he's ok with it if I really feel I need to.

I can manage leaving him short term its the long term that is an issue. I cannot return to my career unfortunately. I am very unsettled by that fact as I was 100% self sufficient before him. But I also realize I can't let that stop me from leaving if necessary.

I am trying hard, on my marriage and on me, thanks for the input! Amy

I'm responding here because it is a good idea to keep to a single thread. That way all your information is collected in one place and you will get the best help.

Implementing the POJA is not going to be possible with the current state of your marriage. You are both going to need to start at the beginning with the Lovebusters book as Mel says. You are making him feel deeply insecure and he is retaliating with abusive tactics. But it does sound as if he is willing to work to clean up his side of the street. If he is not comfortable posting here, have you thought about counseling with Steve Harley?

Ok, I'll keep it all in one place.

-I'll start w/lovebusters book.

-Yes, he says otherwise but I think he knows I'm preparing myself to leave. So he tightens the noose and I start kicking even harder. Vicious circle.

-I have suggested counseling here, anywhere... he refuses. His stance is he doesn't need anyone telling him what to do, he saw a counselor with his 1st wife and it was "useless". He slipped once and made a comment which led me to suspect he was told he needed anger management or had abusive behavior in his first marriage. Also why he was so careful when we were dating.

That's all I've got for now. A little hope left, but not much anymore.

Thank for listening.

Here is what Dr Harley has to say about control and abuse:

"Control and abuse in marriage are deal-breakers. They are not only a risk to a woman's safety, but they also prevent her from feeling romantic love toward her husband. That's why I call them Love Busters. Selfish demands, disrespectful judgments, and angry outbursts combine to create control and abuse, and every couple should do whatever is necessary to eliminate them. They should not be tolerated. When an abusive spouse refuses to overcome these destructive habits, I generally advise the abused spouse to separate until safety is restored, even if it is financially difficult for them."

In this case POJA would not be required. You need to protect yourself from your H's abusive patterns. If he is unwilling to seek help for his controlling and abusive ways, (I would recommend with the counseling center/Harley's to start) then you should separate until he does.

He doesn't need anyone telling him what to do. But you also don't need to remain in an abusive marriage. He can choose to protect and care for you by eliminating these behaviors, or 'not let anyone tell him what to do' living on his own.

Also, notice the 'even if it is financially difficult for them' portion of what Dr Harley recommends. You have stated on a couple of occasions here that you would be financially strapped if you left. From what you have said, it sounds to me like he is continuing to make you dependent on him in that way, which is further abuse. Do not let the fear of living a different lifestyle keep you in an abusive situation.

"have suggested counseling here, anywhere... he refuses. His stance is he doesn't need anyone telling him what to do, he saw a counselor with his 1st wife and it was "useless". He slipped once and made a comment which led me to suspect he was told he needed anger management or had abusive behavior in his first marriage. Also why he was so careful when we were dating"

You might want to make it a condition that he get anger management classes. Because this is a non-starter unless he gets that under control.

Please tell me he doesn't have a traveling job. You said he is out of town for a week..

I appreciate your concern, he isn't cheating. He travels yes, I am with him the last few years.

He went camping/hiking, we go all the time, I know where he is its harmless. Exercise helps him relax. We both decided he should go and give us a break, he offered to stay since Valentines approaches but I wanted the break.

Best, Amy

ugh... But you are emotionally detached and struggling with independent behavior if he is traveling on a regular basis. So I am concerned.

How often are you apart?


There is nothing harmless about having separate leisure lives and separate vacations. That is how couples grow apart and develop incompatible lifestyles.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. We are together now, I left my career and agreed to follow his. He has a great job but its hard in that it requires relocation/constant travel. We were tired of him being gone, our time apart... so the solution was to be with him. but that meant no more career for me thus the financial agreement, etc. I can and do small things but not "career" level.

I hope this makes sense now.


The other cool thing about his job is he takes projects, when they are done, he gets time off until the next one. So we get big chunks of time together. This week of his is nothing, we've been on a break period for 6 weeks now. Hiking and doing all sorts of things. And this one is on me, I wanted some time to myself so I can clear my head. But yes, if I wasn't recovering from another blow out I would have gone with him.

Its a great setup in so many ways...but hard to make/keep friends and connections, or commitments. its really important to be able to trust and have each other. We discussed all of this back before we took this step. For this to work for me I need stability from him in the day to day, and a sense of security. I'm in a new place right now, its beautiful and I should be having a ball but instead I'm scared, worried and lonely. I feel very alone too much anymore and its not healthy. I can make this work but not without a partner in life.

I gotcha! So you are not living/traveling apart now but are lonely because of your marriage problems...

Yes, but lonely because of my marriage troubles, and because I am very alone in life overall. For reasons that are my own, and simple circumstances I don't have anyone in my life. I mean that literally unfortunately.

I have managed my isolation well considering and my husband is very much aware that has been an issue for me. As long as we are on the move it is unlikely I can expand my social connections.

My husband and I had agreed to do this for a certain number of years and while we travel we can look for our favorite place then settle down, make friends, community, etc.

I guess that is what this all boils down to, as wonderful as this life can be...I can't live this life without stability in my marriage.

I am just talking "outloud". Thanks so much for listening, Amy

Amy:
Are you living in foreign countries? There are excellent, free, web-based resources for ex-pats which provide connections and camaraderie. If you google ex-pat resources you will find them. I can provide specific names if you like. I found them an invaluable support while Taffy and I were stationed in South America.

Hi. Thank you, if you have a particular reference you use, I would appreciate it. I haven't had much success with online sources so far, but last week I did accidentally run into some folks and I hope to see them again.

I am grateful for the opportunity so forgive my complaining but my husband speaks several languages fluently so he does just fine. I don't and I can go months with no one to communicate with other than him, or unless he translates. Then right when I start getting the gist we are off to the next place.

Right now I am learning Spanish, we spend the most time in those areas so it will help in the long run. It is fun, I'm working hard but it doesn't come overnight. Darn it

Amy:

I used internations.org and expatexchange.com. See what you think.

Where are you and how long are you likely to be there?

Your lonliness and isolation are sourced to the poor state of your marriage and your idependent recreational lifestyles.

If you and your husband were to concentrate on restoring romantic love in your marriage, and becoming each others' favorite recreational companions, you would have far less worries over social circles because... frankly, you wouldn't care. You and your husband would be too in love to care.


In fact, trying to find people to socialize with while your marriage is a wreck is an invitation for disaster...

He is exactly right. Your spouse should become your favorite recreation, not people outside of your marriage. We can help you achieve this. My H and I enjoy our time together so much that we rarely WANT to squander it spending it with other people. And we don't feel alone. We enjoy being with other couples sometimes, but for the most part, we enjoy being with each other.

A good marriage doesn't need other people/activities; in fact, those things can damage the marriage if the marriage is not put first.

Amy, the solution is to fix your marriage. Not to look outside of it for relief.

This is such a tough situation! Is there no online business you can work on while you also work on your marriage? Something you can slowly build up with income but that is independent of where you live? I'm in the military and have had an online boutique for 11 years now.

It just seems to me that feeling like having options would help you approach him from a position of confidence, and if you are more confident about your options then maybe he wouldn't be able to "slap you around" emotionally. You wouldn't feel stuck, like the victim, but you'd have more power, more control over your life. There's a difference between "I'm stuck here and have to make the best of him treating me bad," and "I'm choosing to work on my marriage because that's what commitment is all about, but I don't have to suffer disrespectful/abusive treatment and if he doesn't shape up then next year I'm gone."

Thank you!


Yes on the poor state of marriage but not recreational activities. At least not for him. We are together constantly, we were not apart one day in 2012, this week is my first week solo.

I meet his recreational needs and then some. He is extremely athletic and that was what he always loved about me. I hike, backpack, rock climb, mountaineer, long distance run, cycle and ski with him.

I just ran a marathon and trained up to 30 mile runs. I'm pretty driven in general and I'm no different with my efforts here. So its safe to say I'm fit. What isn't fun is when he gets angry at me for not "performing" like I should or when I covered 93 miles with a pack and 23,000ft elevation and he got upset with me for "slowing down". Yes, I did slow down, my feet hurt on day 3 but I still covered 18.

Truthfully, despite the fact I was glad he was leaving, his real reason he left without me this week is because there is a chance of mixed ice/recent snow and we don't have crampons/ropes with us so if I go I'll just hold him back.

Frankly I feel I go out of my way to do "his" stuff, as for me? I wanted to go bowling last year on a whim. He wouldn't go. So I found someone to go with. Last time we went to a movie theater? 3 yrs ago. 1 time since we married. I go alone and ask him to join me. He doesn't mind if I go but more and more we do his stuff and mine is always met with an excuse, or he simply says no. Zoo and Museum last week, he won't go, but I should "tell him about it". I begged him to go to an amusement park last year, we wouldn't - but he would find a coworker to go with me. Never happened but that wasn't the point to start with. I love them, haven't gone in decades and thought it would be fun. We stationed right next to a huge one.

We do what he likes and that is that.


This was one of my first thoughts, I still look into it, right now in fact but nothing has panned out. I even considered online learning and right now I'm doing a language course.


I know. I am trying to be hopeful and I fear this is where I am at. I found Dr. Harley's material and we started this last year with a little improvement. But then my husband drops it and life is good again(to him) and he backslides. I have been going to counseling - he refuses of course. I "saw" the counselor for 6ish months, he can use skype iwth me, it worked pretty well.

The logical step for me seems to be to settle somewhere and look for work to stabilize, but he sees that as me separating from him. He refuses counseling, now he's changing our financial agreement...I know he doesn't want me to go but he seemingly refuses to do much of anything about it.

Last week in the store, everything was wonderful and we went in to get a beer, some snacks and planned on heading to the park. He decided to get his beer at the last moment so it would be cold, I was nearly at the register when he decides to go. I laughed and told him to hurry, comes back a minute later sets the beer down, looked at me HARD and asked me why I hadn't held them "back" for him. HUH? I turned and there were a couple of teenage girls texting but plenty of room to get by. So he goes stone faced and tells me that the next time we are in a grocery, he will make sure to get me back. This sounds ridiculous I know but he was furious and he is dead serious. The next morning the incident never happened of course.

Yup. A day in my life with mr. mood swings. The worst part is they come out of nowhere, every time I think I can't get caught off guard, I do.

Thanks to all for the feedback I truly appreciate it, Amy