SD
As always you are right again! I no I have a big conflict avoidance issue and it comes out of not wanting to hurt FWW.

I see how damaging it is and still do it. I am going work harder on this and FWW to her credit told me not to keep from her things that are bothering me.

She told me to look at it like taking off a band aide, just do it all at once. Don't slowly peel it away, just rip it off!

I was going to ask you guys about my conflict avoidance problem sooner, but I didn't want to bother ya'll

See...quit worrying about bothering people...especially your wife!

I'm glad Brainy linked the "types of liars" thing because it's worth a 2nd read - you might recall it from the books. When you lie - even to avoid hurting your wife - it hurts your marriage. That, of course, is worse than momentarily hurting your wife's feelings.

BH,
Guilty as charged! I know I do it and FWW and I are discussing this now in our 5 steps workbook. I am a protection liar from way back.
Big brother to little sisters and all.
I see there is no place for it in my M.
Thank you again!

SD,
Working on it from here on out.
I can come up with a host of reasons for the behavior.I see it in myself and don't want to do it anymore .
As FWW and I talked about it the other night I think it boils down to me not feeling completely safe yet.

FWW has accepted every EP. What I am not safe with is being that vulnerable again it seems. In our discussions about how and what she was feeling before she even started her A is where the fear springs from. I tried to reconnect with her for a year before the A started and couldn't. Now FWW tells me that I have made her so happy that her LB$ is at an all time high.
I don't want to stop that trend so I don't bring up my feelings or concerns that I perceive might cause her to be unhappy. I have jumped in the water now so I am not going to stop and let the resentment build,
Thanks again Brainy for the links!!
Being a BS and stressing over my lies hurting my FWW sounds a little crazy when you think about it but the protection liar is that ingrained in me!
As we say down here... I'm fix'n to stop doing that!

It takes awhile for the FBS to be ready to be vulnerable again - at least it did me! That's part of the FWS having to earn you back: it's your wife's job to earn that.

I understand you wanting her to be happy and not wanting to upset the boat - but you know how the system works! And keep in mind - part of a great relationship is respect. I would go so far as to say romantic love is not possible with respect for your partner. You have to respect yourself enough to be honest with your W; and that self respect - as long as it is shown in the right way - will allow her to respect you as well.

SD,
I know now how it works it is the placation that trips me up! That's why you guy's are so important to me!
I appreciate your time in helping me and all the other's.
I believe I have banished that dishonesty beast now after the
truck talk.
FWW took off tomorrow so we could go hear Jim Brickman and the ASO tonight and we plan on looking at trucks Friday and Saturday.
Lose of respect is the result of my dishonesty in the past. I have read so many times the definition of insanity, yet there I go!
My relational skills got me here. The new MB ones are going to carry me forward, not going back or continuing the old ones!

Good job.

Keep enjoying the new MB marriage.

Agreed!!! Just keep at it and make sure it remains your #1 priority - even as things get better and better. That's the key: to never lose that focus.

Happy Valentines to you and the Mrs...and to all my other MB friends out there!

WLE,


You can allow YOURSELF to be vulernable, it is YOUR MARRIAGE you cannot allow to be vulnerable.

That means EPs are for both of you. It means you meet UA requirements.

It means you make sure that YOU are happy as well as your wife.

That means being radically honest, and helping your wife to avoid making LB$ withdrawals, and also with making larger, more effiecient LB$ deposits.

HHH,
Thank you for the clarification.
That is what I am working on now.
We are staying around 20 hours a week UA and have adjusted EP's that have really helped the phone , computer and OS friends .

That pain was so intense I guess I have been trying to ease back into the waters instead of just diving in. I can see that by me working on the the M and concentrating on FWWs ENs I have put off allowing her to meet mine.

We took a big step towards that this weekend.
The old King Ranch Affair-mobile is no more and the new Lariat
is here! FWW told me that she only wants me to have good memories
about her from now on and that she enthusiastically wanted to get rid of her old truck for my healing!

By the way buying her a New truck on Valentine's Day really helps to get a certain numero uno EN of mine meet!!

Can't tell you how much I need you guy's on MB!

They bought a Ford

What kind of POJA is that?

I guess it is too late for an intervention.

TheRoad'
Too funny, I'm just going to guess here ... not a Ford fan!
I would bought a Conestoga wagon just to have another vehicle
in the drive way!

Crap!! Don't ya'll hate those those sneaky surprise triggers that you should have seen coming but missed!
FWW had to fill in on the night shift this week temporarily and I have felt terrible all week even though we are still getting in over 20 hours UA!
Then it hits me ... this is where she was during her A! It didn't register with me until the other night as I was laying awake in bed alone unable to sleep. I jumped up and text-ed her good night. I also asked her to call me when she is working off shifts.
I can't believe I missed that one.
Then there are the triggers that are just certain phrases that FWW will say that will get me. Or worst repeat something I have discussed with her and the sense of Deja vu hearing her say something she said back then.
The ones you don't see coming that hit you right between the eyes.
The one that got me off guard yesterday was as FWW was getting ready to go in to work I saw her wrapped in a towel coming out of the bathroom and just wanted a kiss. She said don't get too excited I just got my shower. BAM! The first thought that went through my crazy brain was it didn't bother you to have sex with POSOM during your lunch break then go straight back to work!
Why does my mind still do that to me!! It has to be the combination of events , situations and words that did it.
Talked to FWW about how I need a little more from her to feel safe still, like calling me from the work phone to see the number she is calling from and remembering what I told her bothered me about her A.
On my part I should have remembered that back then I only use to show her affection when I wanted SF and by me asking for a kiss right then made her remember it that's why she said what she did.
Old habits!
WLE2 ... still "IN" recovery

Reading that and I felt the hurt. You need to stop the trigger from unfolding past did she ever tell OM no.

You need to explain how WW telling you no leaves you second best to OM because you know she did not tell the OM no.

Road,
What was so unsettling to me was realizing we have had that exact conversation but not since before D-day.
I will tell her.
Thank you for responding I won't hold these feelings from her anymore. We had discussed how hurtful it was/is to me the small things FWW did for her OP she won't do for me her husband.
This issue, what she slept in, how she talked to him etc.
This seems so trivial but wow it gets to me still.
I am not going to let this hinder our MR by no means.
I just had to let some steam off before I talked to my Bride!

If "no" is not really an option for her, then what is that? I think you were on the right track when you were considering her feelings, too, when you mentioned that she might be thinking of affection as a quick way to sex. If you continue to give her affection as a way to show her your care, she will probably feel more inclined as time goes on to have a kiss after a shower. Or you could see if you can negotiate that instead of telling her that "no" makes you think of her affair.

LifetimeLearner
Thank you for your insights ,I need all the help I can get. I will continue to be mindful of how and when I show her affection.

My intent was just a kiss but I guess the damage we have inflicted on each other over the past 30 years pre- MB caused this response in her out of self protection.
I do understand and have tried to adjust so I can meet that EN she has for affection.

"No" is always an option for her and I will assure her of that again when we are able to talk about this. I know that timing is everything and we have discussed that very issue early on in MC.

If she was just teasing me and not concerned about my intentions. Wish she would have just stated she had to go to work instead of just had a shower.
I brought this subject up to her when she answered the last A detail questions for me.

As I stated earlier It kills me that she would do things for POSOM she would not do for me. I don't understand why this is or if it will pass with time but I was reminded of this when I heard those familiar words.

It is just hearing her say to me the "I just had a shower and have to work" thing knowing that didn't bother her enough to keep her from checking out motel ceiling tiles during lunch break with OM then working the rest of the night. But it always does if it is with me.

We talked about the words she used in her text to OM, words I've never heard her use. Even what she didn't wear on the all nighters. This is what hurts me still and I don't know how to address these thoughts and emotions.

So, are you still talking about the affair with her?

I don't know how you can address your thoughts or emotions, really, except maybe if you could tell yourself to put them on the back burner for a time while you work on the marriage. Maybe you could mollify your taker enough to keep from committing love busters and to continue to deposit love units, then reassess how you feel about your marriage in about 6 months. I know it's a challenge to corral one's thoughts.

I admit I haven't read your whole thread, but do you have "Surviving an Affair?" Have you read it?

I have now read your whole thread. I see that you have read SAA. Did your wife ever finish reading it?

I had to read your post of 2/23 quite a few times before understanding it. So, if I understand correctly, it's not about the kiss or no kiss so much as it is about what she said that triggered you. Is that correct?

Sorry if I rambled. Yes, that is correct. It is what she said that triggered me.

I haven't thought about that aspect of her A in a while. When she made that statement I was surprised by the flood of bad thoughts that her words brought to my mind.

FWW did finish reading SAA and it really opened her eyes to where she had been and where we need to be.