hmmm... yes my WH was so happy depressed in his love nest with POSOW that he had a suicide attempt, but was released three days later.

Your wife is probably emailing OM in the coffee shop from another email account btw. Never trust a wayward.

bf1, I'm sorry you and your children are facing this crisis, but it's neither unexpected nor irreparable.

WW's often get suicidal, or at least extremely depressed, as they start recovery and the full realization of what they have done hits. MMS gave you his story. I had to willfully postpone recovery activities for several months while shepherding Bride away from the figurative ledge.

She had two men satisfying her key ENs. She is being forced to give one up, and at the same time is presented with the possibility of the second one leaving her for her offense. Putting on top of those issues the dawning necessity of having to change jobs (with whatever attendant economic disruptions will exist), and the loss of reputation among peers ("Hey did you hear about Mrs Bf1 and Skippy, the grad student?"), and family, and it is very obvious her self respect would plummet.

You are right to tend to her for the immediate future. The plan will not (can not) change if there is to be a totally rebuilt marriage, but first things first, dude.

Did you expose to the employer?
Te college needs to know.

Hi again,

Back, mostly because I'm hurting bad, but also to post an update. WW is currently at her IC while I am sitting in a dark living room, wondering what the hell is going on with our marriage and recovery. She just confessed that while she hasn't contacted OM since D-Day, she keeps feeling tempted to do so. I've been trying to show her how much I love her, and we had a really great morning today with our DD at her preschool. But when I asked her why she can't decide between him or me, she just can't answer. I feel like after 4 days of talking and sharing our love, she just doesn't seem to get that saving our marriage is the right thing to do.

To get a little personal, this morning we made love, but half way through, I just lost feeling for it, and we stopped. I've never done that before, and I told her it was because I can't feel love from her right now. I tried to show her how much I love her, and always have, and very tenderly spoke of times, memories, and qualities about her that made me love her. When I asked if she could do the same, she said no. She said there were things that she loved about me (and struggled listing some), but they didn't add up to loving me, and she had doubts that they ever did. I told her I refused to believe that, but she failed to make me feel otherwise.

I guess part of the problem I'm having here is convincing her that she did love me, and that she can again. I'm trying to reconcile the Plan A part of MB. While I feel I have been doing my part, she hasn't really committed to ending the affair. I know she has unfulfilled EN, and I'm trying to meet those, but it's becoming clear that she would rather OM meet those, since he has been doing so well at it for the past few months. How can I compare to him, even if she recognizes the A is wrong?

One silver lining (albeit a dull one at best) is that my confrontation with OM yesterday concluded with the POS apologizing to me and agreeing to never speak to her again. I have not told WW about this (should I?). But really, if she were to sneak off and find a pay phone and call him, I'm sure he'd sweet talk her ear off. And frankly, with her disregard towards my feelings, I'm sure she wouldn't even sneak off; she'd probably just call him using her cell phone, knowing darn well I'm monitoring it, just so she can get that fix. Why can't I convince her that she can get that fix from me?

Updates on the other fronts: The suicide thing seems to have subsided, and I'm glad she's at IC now. But depression is still an issue and we are hoping medication can help in the long run. She has not quit her job, and I'm not really pushing this. Right now, she is making the money for the household (I left my job two years ago to be a stay at home dad), so leaving her job would be financially disastrous. I do not believe her supervisor knows yet, although, as I mentioned, I did expose to coworkers, and I've not heard back from any of them, despite calling a few to followup on my email. She has not gone to work since D-Day. We are both concerned that possible legal action could result from her A, namely because it turns out the OM is a student and she has financed his education through school merit scholarships (she awards these and has given him two).

I know the advice is to expose to the school supervisors, but I know Dr. Hartley also says there are exceptions when it precludes financial hardship, and frankly, the lack of response I've gotten from the exposure to the coworkers has me fearful of the worst. I actually encouraged her to go to work today so she could talk to the coworkers she's closest with. To remind you, she can do this without contacting OM, as he is on a trip (which she financed through the school). But she felt it was best to stay home with DD and I, and I can't argue with that!

<sigh> I'm going to go do some dishes to take my mind off things. At least until my DD is awake and we can play dollhouse again...

Unfortunately this will be a consequence of her deciding to have an affair with him if some other student should report her. She has to leave the job anyway -- she MUST leave the job one way or another.

You need to email the radio show and go on as a couple. Email your story to mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. I think hearing from the good doctor himself will help your cause. Has your WW done a NC letter? If not I hate to say this considering how down you are but you are headed to a false recovery. As for financial hardships that's baloney. Your marriage can survive financial hardships but it won't survive her continued contact with this POSOM.

I agree that emailing Dr. Harley is a good idea. I doubt that he would state anything other than your wife should voluntarily resign though.

Your wife is in the fog. You can read up a lot about the fog from other posts on this site. It is where the WS rewrites history, claiming they were never happy, when the truth is we all started off at a happy place. Happy enough to walk down the aisle and commit to a lifelong partnership anyways.

Expect your wife to spew these hurtful statements for a while until she comes out of the fog. If she is in contact in anyway with OM, this will keep her in a perpetual state of fogginess. Hence I suggest no more trips to the cafe alone for a while. She probably contacted him there. You assume your wife would contact him in front of you. Why? She is pretty good at deception as you know by now. For now everything she says needs to be verified.

She needs to start sending out CVs right away. (I think you should also be applying for jobs at this point.) The best case scenario might be for her to teach courses which are 100% online. That would enable her to work entirely from home,so you wouldn't have to worry about her interacting with students in person. She'd also be able to handle the childcare if you start working outside the home. The biggest downside is that teaching online pays much less per course than teaching onsite.

Depression and addiction (to the OM) is a deadly combination. I agree that you need to delete any email accounts or phone numbers he used to contact her, according to MB principles. And that she needs to change jobs - teaching students online might be really good while she learns to accept boundaries. Depressed people often try to lift their depression with romantic thoughts and those thoughts being associated with OM is undoubtedly part of the problem.

And *of course* she's really tempted to contact him. Just like an alcoholic is tempted to take another drink! She's got to stick with the program or all that time gets wasted.

So what's left to do: NC letter, then delete the email address used to send it.
then change jobs as per Jessica's suggestion. I'm betting that online teaching is the best possible idea as well.

She would do well to get into some kind of hobby or activity with you that feels good and provide UA time, to block off the need for OM. (That's my personal opinion, although I think it goes with MB as well.)

I'm so sorry you are hurting.

I am going to gently point out just a few things to help you focus your efforts.


What you did not mention is her love bank. Think about how she wants her needs met. Not your need to emote your love for her. There is a difference.


Definitely not a Plan A thing to do. Your questioning her this way does not make love bank deposits.


Of course she can't. Stop asking her "why" questions. It will not draw her closer to you.


You are speaking about an addict. Addicts 'feel', they seldom 'think'. Right now, for her anything that does not 'feel good' seems like the wrong thing to do. Her moral compass is not her guide right now. Her emotions are her guide. Your expectations she recognize logic as a tool are going to disappoint you.


It would have been brilliant if you had said nothing but to ask her if you could hold each other in silence.


Remember, in Plan A, you make strategic decisions to meet her needs the way she wants them to be met.


Way to go !!!! YES!


She can't right now. Stop asking.


OK. This conversation happened. Now stop setting her up to hurt you.


You can't do that. Thinking you can do that IS part of your problem with Plan A.


Please, take this critique the way I intend it. You are not following Plan A with a lot of what you have written here.
You are trying to force the outcome you want by squeezing it out of her. She probably hates that.


Exactly what are those ENs. Exactly how have you been making an effort to do that? If you don't focus on those in a clear way, your Plan A will be overly emotional and not effective.


If OM is her heroin, then yes, heroin would make her happier right now. Heroin also makes people ill.



I am trying to explain that to you.
You need to Plan A the correct way.


Not a dull one at all! VERY BIIGHT in fact.


Do you see your problem here? You are trying to "convince" her. You are also wanting immediate results.


Please do not disregard what I am about to say next. If there is ever another threat of suicide, dial 911. No discussion.


You may want to POJA this arrangement once her head is clear. She may not truly be happy being the 'income' while you enjoy raising the kids on a day-to-day basic. I by no means think this is a discussion to have right now. Future.


Never stand between the adulterous and the consequences of his/her decisions.

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Straight from Dr. H.


Read aloud to yourself very slowly. Then, do it again.

Thanks Pepperband. I'm back on here after some time. Both my wife and I have been reading SAA and it has been wonderful, but your comments are something I could really use right now. I'm struggling with exactly what you pointed out, and I think the hardest thing to deal with right now is overcoming my emotions about this whole affair. While I'm not flying off the handle, I am guilty of occasional disrespectful judgements, and while I try to catch myself and stop, sometimes they slip out. And you are absolutely right, I seem to be forcing the issue too often because I want some comfort from her. It may be the hardest part for us BS to suffer the affair and deal with these feelings of rejection while we try to comfort our waywards out of the fog. Last night I read the chapter on resentment, and I'm trying to take all that in at the moment.

On a side note, while I love the book, my wife's been particularly drawn to it because it's helping her articulate her feelings during pre- and post-affair. While I'm glad for this, it is very painful for her to relate to Sue so well and she points out on occasion how much she loves the OM. I try to remind her that this is hurting me and disrespectful, and to your point, Pepper, how do you remind someone that they hurt and are continuing hurting you while at the same time trying to foster an environment for love and support of that person? I know Dr. Hartley addresses that, but any tips would be welcome.

The good news is that WW and I have been spending a lot more time together, and we are currently planning a weekend trip without our DD for this weekend. Just as SAA says, planning time together is important, but we are struggling with that management since we have a DD and no one is available to watch her (both our families live out of state and we don't have many friends here, let alone some that we trust to watch our DD for a weekend). So, we are flying to see family, and the financial toll is weighing on us a bit (this little weekend recovery trip is gonna set us back a couple thousand bucks!). But the time is invaluable, including more workouts together and a date tonight!

ugh, just this withdrawal is so painful... I'll be happy once we can start loving each other again, but I wish it would come soon...

BF, I'm glad you said so well what I have been going through. I'm looking forward to the responses because I too cannot get past the pain right now.

Good luck

Stick with the MB plan, and your marriage will become better than it ever was. That is what happened for us.

T I M E.

If the WS is snapped cold out of the affair and is regretful, less TIME.

If the WS is mired in fog, more TIME.

Resent and anger are TIME adders as are DJ and definitely, the granddaddy of all time adders, is the Angry Outburst.

Tons of UA with both of you hitting on the ENs of each other with a date night here and there and loving environment are TIME reducers.

I can safely attest that just shy of 2 years out, the resent and anger are so low. Not imaginable how low just 4 or 5 months ago.

T I M E heals all wounds, this aint no different.

Some sage advisers here say 2 to 5 years is the TIME frame for anger, resent, and pain to start to subside.

So strap in as the ride can be brutal.

Man, on days like today, the thought of 2 to 5 years is pretty soul crushing. I was just guilty of a slight Angry Outburst and I'm just deflated right now. I should be working on a job application, but all I can think about right now is my pain. After a nice walk with WW this morning, I went to kiss her this afternoon and she recoiled. I asked what was wrong and she she just shook her head. After a little talk, she said the thing that gets me every time: "I just don't know. I really miss him." It's so frustrating to me when at one moment she can call me a great guy, and then later say she can't commit to rebuilding our marriage until she's done being confused. She keeps throwing back at me that she feels she should have ended it with OM on her terms, and not through the NC letter or with me calling him.

Let me reiterate, she has not contacted OM since D-Day, but not a day has gone by that she doesn't remind me she wants to contact him. In anger today, I finally just said, "go ahead then, call him!" She said she wouldn't, but only because she feels she needs some time to figure things out on her own without him. I told her that was the wrong answer; that she should tell me she won't call him ever because she respects me and our marriage. Her response was that she wished she could say that, but just can't.

Now she's at her therapist, who is telling her the most important thing for her to figure out is herself and not whether she should be with me or OM. She seems to enjoy these therapy sessions, but I feel like she's being reinforced a selfish idea after committing one of the most selfish acts she could ever have done...