You have things somewhat entangled, JC.

Plan A/B defines TD's interaction with WW. It can legally have no bearing on WW's interaction with DS4.

As a matter of fact, TD's being in communication with WW (as per Plan A) would enable him to detect and interpret her abuses toward DS4 and counteract them, much more so than if he were in a strict Plan B.

I don't believe Dr. Harley would have advised Plan A in November if he'd known the whole story, and I don't believe he would advise it now if he truly understood the current situation. Plan A is being misapplied, and it is having the practical effect of enabling WW to emotionally abuse and abandon the children. Dr. Harley is very clear that plans to save a marriage should not take priority over anyone's physical or emotional safety.

Jessica.
The mom will always have supervised visitation.
TQ wants to help his step son.
This is the only way he can remain in his life for now.
Not showing up for visitation isn't abuse. Neglect perhaps but not abuse
Isn't every wayward neglectful of their marriage and children?

TQ is not enabling anything.
He has Aiken proper court action and that continues.

Since he emailed Dr Harley why don't you quit throwing stumbling blocks on his plan A path until Dr Harley responds?

I feel fine and my LB is high. I have anger towards her POSOM and the whole situation yes but I use that anger for positive outlets. Dr. H knows the full story I said it on the radio show. I think his plan is for me to do a proper plan a then go dark doing divorce because when this started in July of last year I was an emotional wreck. I cried in front of her had 3 massive AOs and was always DJ. So my plan A was f'ed up to say the least. I can take the mental strain and my DS4 is ok and on my side. If I go to Plan B without doing a good plan A I think it will fail. As far as SS is concern he knows his mom is batsh1t crazy he has told me himself. He told her as well but that's my fault in her mind. He wants to come home and understands that it isn't my fault and why he can't. His moms affair. I am not enabling her. She has supervised visitation for 6 hours a week. She lives in a sh1t hole and works many hours at two jobs, her military unit great her like a leper. All of my friends do the same as well as all our mutual friends. Her friends were my friends and they tell her to fix her wrongs. She is scared to go to church the car is getting repoed. Health insurance is going away because of this and she has been diagnosed with cancer. Her military career is in the dumps and she wants to get out, I am positive its from the IG investigation. She barely talks to her kids because of the shame. I feel I'm doing good but I will meet with my lawyer to get my Plan B ducks in a row. I can still whip it out before the final judgment which doesn't have a date yet. Oh and my neighbors told me they see her car come around at least three times a week. Like JK said she is emotionally unstable and hating herself. I am confident that I am on the right course. Isn't the purpose of plan a to let them have their cake and eat it while all the while not letting them think its a good idea? Let them get comfortable then snatch the rug from under them?

No. I don't think that's the purpose of plan A.
He recommends Plan A for 6 months while saying that most affairs die a natural death within 6 months.
He often says on the radio That there are risks in plan B that the wayward may move in with the affair partner etc.
In the case of Jon and Sue, Harley recommended plan B to Jon after Jon had lost his love for Sue and was starting not to like her. It was for Jon's benefit.
He uses plan B for women right away to protect them.



If you stick with plan A I think you have a good shot of winning her back.

In my case I plan A until divorce and entered plan B immediately after divorce.
I had temporary full custody of the kids during part of this time and she would come and go from the house as she pleased. (no restraining order)
My love bank balance was really depleted during this plan a and divorce.

However , Harley recommended I stay in plan A indefinitely if she had any shared custody.

I spoke with my mother concerning everything. Before I would only tell her what was making me mad. Some background on my "mother". She cheated with multiple men on my father and he filed for divorce. She continued to gaslight me and my siblings until I was 15. I did some digging and found the court papers concerning their divorce and my grandmother told me about how she testified against her own daughter because my mother was wayward and didn't raise us correctly.

She lost custody and my father moved on till this day I despise my mother but do not openly show it. I have told her this and she understands. During our talk she wanted to talk with WW and I told her the best way to in touch with her was to write it in a letter and mail it to her address. Mother told me the biggest regret is that she wishes she could do it over again and cherised my father and their marriage. Her relationship with my sister is fractured and my younger brother doesn't deal with her much either. My mother feels if she would share what her life is like and what the future holds for my WW she could get throught to her.

I told her I'm not sure this is a good idea but after reading about plan A this would be a good stick. What are your thoughts?
JC please don't think I am being ungrateful, the same goes for everyone who post and follow my trail of tears (thread). I feel that the more posts I have shows me many perspectives on this matter and helps me make the best decisions in a worst position. I still love my wife and feel she is worth all this. Even more so for my children. I have said this before on my thread, if POSOM was a local [censored] I couldn't of been this Plan A patient. He lives 1200 miles away so all he is filling is IC and maybe a little affection. I have the majority, when she has problems she tells me, when she is sick she leans on me, when she just want to talk about thing she leans on me. I am in the best position because of credibility and shared history. Plus, I am a uber father to boot, he11 my step son calls me dad.

In short I will Plan A as Dr. H as told me. When the gavel drops I will Plan B her. Will it be difficult, he11 yea. Like she is addicted to her POSOM most BS are addicted to their WS. But I will thrive and be the best man I can be. She knows deep down she is making a huge mess of her life with her erractic behavior and bonehead decisions. When I am gone and/if she lives with POSOM she will do nothing but compare and see him for what he is. I only hope that I will have the mercy that Jesus has and save her when she is willing to earn her forgivness. Day by day they say right? I have good an bad but my rock has been my DS and SS. They understand even at their long age that "Daddy didn't do anything, wrong. Mommy shouldn't have a boyfriend just a husband and that's Daddy." Once again thanks for all the advice. I have been reading GJM thread and I feel our WW are the same as our situations. I have also been reading my thread and seen how much I have grown and endured. I like a challenge and thats what I look at this as, I have a check list and now I am getting Plan B I have a willing rock solid IM. I have a PBL and all I need is to Plan A for a little longer and drop the boom.

If I go to Plan B without doing a good plan A I think it will fail.

This, from you, with the good doctor's counsel in support, should end the discussion.

Dude, as an aside, if you still have the desire and ability to, as you say, continue to implement an effective Plan A given the history of her betrayal, I'm not ashamed to say you are a better (more devoted?) man than I.

JC, I think being female.. we cannot understand the usefulness of plan A for this long. It's not in our psyche to put up with that much bull for that many mths. I know I, for one, do not have the mental fortitude to deal with a wayward for that long.

Carry on TD.

You never know what will happen, how things will eventually turn out.
One of the benefits of being around her for awhile ... you see a lot of outcomes. All sorts of outcomes.

Here is one story that is very interesting.
A WW came to MB AFTER her BS divorced her.
She desperately wanted to patch things up with her EX husband, who wanted nothing to do with her.

Read about hopeful_person here <~~~ The outcome.

Who would have guessed, right?

This is her first post when she arrived on the MB boards:
The beginning

Thanks Pepperband. I really hope that is me, anyways watching a movie and eating dinner with DS4. Will continue to post update, I haven't heard any response from my email yet. Will share as soon as I do.

Sending this to MIL asking for support for my marriage. Please edit as you see fit. Is this a good idea? On wedding date you and FIL gave your daughter to me freely and of your own will. I could understand you helping her out if we were actually divorced but as it stands right now she is still my wife and I feel that you and FIL taking her in, giving her money and keeping SS is enabling this situation to progress to the point where it's enabling and now I'm dealing with DS4 and my sadness of not seeing SS. I understand very much that you are confused about what the right thing to do in this situation is. I'm sure you want to help your daughter as best you can but I submit that the best way to help her MAYBE to tell her to stop her affair with POSOM and demand she go home and work on things with her husband. That you and your husband aren't going to condone and support her sins of adultery and chatting it up with POSOM. Consider that your grandchildren are looking to you for help saving their family. You two are making it far to easy for her to abandon us. I'm a good man and I've been a decent husband and son-in-law. Nobody's perfect but I don't deserve this and neither do your grandchildren. At this point, our marriage appears repairable but with your help/interference that may not be the case much longer. Please respect my wishes and send my wife home and help me repair our marriage. Please remember the pain that was inflicted upon you when WW's father abandoned you. WW's sadness and anger growing up without a strong father figure in her life. Please do what is right for Our family. SS needs a father and mother to raise him to be the best possible person as he grows and matures, the same as DS. The only way to ensure that is WW coming home and working on our marriage not having an affair with POSOM. Who doesn't raise his own children.

Got a call from WW she is coming to get her things I packed up for her. How should I handle it? Should I help her get her stuff in the vehicle or let her do it herself? I'm leaning towards the previous seems stick Plan A like to me. I need some direction!

Is she coming alone?
Let's hope so.

Carrot & stick.
Make her a yummy snack. Offer her favorite beverage. Music playing. Look amazing.
Don't lift her objects unless she is being civil and it appears it might be to your advantage.
If she seems to be waiting for you to help physically but you don't want to ... you get a phone call and have to step away.

"Excuse me. My phone is vibrating. I have to take this one."

PS
Carrot. Pay her at least one compliment.

I have heard that Dr Harley says you should not help the wayward move

I am following along and praying for you TD!

Just be prepared mentally
In case she brings over a boyfriend to help her. And have a recorder on you at all times

Ditto.

Agree. Don't facilitate. But offer her a drink, etc.

Thanks for the advice and prayers. I will follow it and update afterwards. Any thoughts on the letter to MIL?

Yeah, I think writing to MIL is a waste of time, and more importantly, a waste of your decreasing $LB balance.

Why?

Suppose MIL says, "Sure, why don't you come down and pick up DSS? Let me clear it through WW." You KNOW what that answer will be.

MIL might have proximate oversight of DSS, but it's damn certain she has no authority to subsequently delegate it to a third party. How will your $LB react to knowing more blatantly that WW is using DSS to stick it to you.

Not worth the effort, dude.....