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#2712029 03/12/13 11:13 AM
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In his 'wind up' to Easter Sunday, pastor is giving me a lot to think about every weekend. Two of the non-Biblical quotes paster used were as follows:

Quote
There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as if everything is a miracle.
~ Albert Einstein

Quote
One of the main reasons that we lose our enthusiasm in life is because we become ungrateful. We let what was once a miracle, become common to us. We get so accustomed to His goodness, it becomes routine.
~ Joel Osteen

When we come to God, it is with the heart of a child. With wonderment.

Hope and optimism and faith and gratitude are the gifts of Easter season.

When I muse about hope, I also consider pessimism. What is more ungrateful than pessimism?


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This is one I like from The Watchmen;

Quote
Miracles. Events with astronomical odds of occurring, like oxygen turning into gold. I've longed to witness such an event, and yet I neglect that in human coupling, millions upon millions of cells compete to create life, for generation after generation until, finally, your mother loves a man, Edward Blake, the Comedian, a man she has every reason to hate, and out of that contradiction, against unfathomable odds, it's you - only you - that emerged. To distill so specific a form, from all that chaos. It's like turning air into gold. A miracle. And so... I was wrong. Now dry your eyes, and let's go home.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Pep, you would revel in this book:

Heretics, Chesterton, G.K., ISBN 978 -1480285101

or read it here.

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Very nice, HHH. Thank you.

Pastor also quoted "unknown".

Quote
Socrates taught for 40 years, Plato for 50, Aristotle for 40, and Jesus for only 3. Yet the influence of Christ's 3-year ministry infinitely transcends the impact left by the combined 130 years of teaching from these men who were among the greatest philosophers of all antiquity.
~Unknown




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Thanks you NG.
As I drift into more advanced age, I find it even more important to maintain my optimism and my child like wonder of all the miracles around me.

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The Sunday before last, Pastor quoted Napoleon.
Quote
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but what foundation did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded an empire upon love; and at this hour millions of men would die for Him.
~Napoleon

Musing about this one for over a week. How does this apply to the MB forums?
MB concepts are all about bringing LOVE into the marriage. Dr Harley understands the power of love.
I think this is why most of us are so drawn to MB and stay around for so long.

My attraction to the reverence for love and hope is very powerful.

What say you?

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Originally Posted by NeverGuessed
Pep, you would revel in this book:

Heretics, Chesterton, G.K., ISBN 978 -1480285101

or read it here.

Wow. This guy is something else altogether.
Quote
We who are Christians never knew the great philo- sophic common sense which inheres in that mystery until the anti-Christian writers pointed it out to us. The great march of mental destruction will go on. Everything will be denied. Everything will become a creed.

It is a reasonable position to deny the stones in the street; it will be a religious dogma to assert them. It is a rational thesis that we are all in a dream; it will be a mystical sanity to say that we are all awake. Fires will be kindled to testify that two and two make four. Swords will be drawn to prove that leaves are green in summer. We shall be left defending, not only the incredible virtues and sanities of human life, but something more in- credible still, this huge impossible universe which stares us in the face. We shall fight for visible prodigies as if they were invisible. We shall look on the impossible grass and the skies with a strange courage. We shall be of those who have seen and yet have believed.

He's on a whole 'nuther level.

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My favorite section included his assertion that the "reformers" found something in the Catholic doctrine, and made that detail, regardless of its insignificance, into their clarion call for deciding that the whole religion was faulty, and should be remade on the basis of their improvements.

His well-argued riposte was that any one piece of a great, and massive program can be criticized, but the true worth of such an organization is in its totality.

Do you recall a certain poster speaking of his disdain for folks who cherry-pick their favored pieces of another "great program", and who should be "kicked most strenuously"?

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Originally Posted by Pepperband
Thanks you NG.
As I drift into more advanced age, I find it even more important to maintain my optimism and my child like wonder of all the miracles around me.

I think it's easy to take the things right in front of us every day for granted.

For instance; just being able to type this, being able to read this.

One time, I expressed wonder about how amazing something (now) so seemingly ordinary as a computer really is. That it all goes from electrical signals to writing, or a movie, or music, or a game... I can't remember who I was talking to, but their reaction was bereft of any amazement.


"It's just a series of electrical channels... ones and zeroes for opened or closed."


It didn't phase me though. Being amazed at the world around me is a driving force.





We are all connected;
To each other, biologically
To the earth, chemically
To the rest of the universe atomically


I think nature's imagination
Is so much greater than man's
She's never going to let us relax


We live in an in-between universe
Where things change all right
But according to patterns, rules,
Or as we call them, laws of nature

I'm this guy standing on a planet
Really I'm just a speck
Compared with a star, the planet is just another speck
To think about all of this
To think about the vast emptiness of space
There's billions and billions of stars
Billions and billions of specks

The beauty of a living thing is not the atoms that go into it
But the way those atoms are put together
The cosmos is also within us
We're made of star stuff
We are a way for the cosmos to know itself

Across the sea of space
The stars are other suns
We have traveled this way before
And there is much to be learned

I find it elevating and exhilarating
To discover that we live in a universe
Which permits the evolution of molecular machines
As intricate and subtle as we


I know that the molecules in my body are traceable
To phenomena in the cosmos
That makes me want to grab people in the street
And say, have you heard this??


There's this tremendous mess
Of waves all over in space
Which is the light bouncing around the room
And going from one thing to the other

And it's all really there
But you gotta stop and think about it
About the complexity to really get the pleasure
And it's all really there
The inconceivable nature of nature


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Well,I buy green bananas.

I guess that makes me some sort of optimist on some level, right?
think

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Pep, a big THANK YOU for the brain poke.

I share with you, Return to Awe;



"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by GloveOil
Well,I buy green bananas.

I guess that makes me some sort of optimist on some level, right?
think

And Taffy and I just invested in a new bottle of hot sauce!!


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Pep, your topic made me think back to something HHH said to me, about my hope becoming shackles and blinders�and I wondered, because hope seems like such a good thing, but like any good thing, can it become bad or unhealthy?

My daughter and I have been reading the �Percy Jackson� series of books. (Spoiler alert for anyone who wants to read these!) In the last book of the first series, �The Last Olympian,� Percy is given Pandora�s Box (or pithos, as it were) by Prometheus, with hope � all that was left of the original contents of the box - still inside. The myth was presented a bit different in the book � the myth most of us remember is that Pandora, given the box by Zeus, opened the box and allowed all the evils to escape into the world, but quickly shut it just before hope could escape. In �The Last Olympian,� it was presented that she didn�t shut the box to keep hope inside, but hope refused to leave mankind at its hour of greatest need. Percy was presented the box with the offer that all he had to do to stop the battle � to stop the pain and suffering of his friends � he just had to open the box and release hope.

But here�s the real question: why would the Greeks have had Zeus put hope into a box with all those other evil things?

Nietzsche said, In reality, hope is the worst of all evils, because it prolongs man's torments. A man (or woman) might continue to fight a battle that can never be won because as long as he has hope, he will continue to fight�but if that hope is distracting the man from the truth of his situation, then he�s simply living in useless misery, trapped by the illusion of hope.

Shackles and blinders, indeed.

Perhaps the difference lies in recognizing the difference between �good� hope and false hope.

Hope is indeed a wonderful thing, but only when it's real. False hope, though, can cause us to raise our expectations, in the face of incredible odds, and then turn around and crush them. My Dad was fond of saying that he was a pessimist, because if he always expected the worst, he�d never be disappointed�but there was always the chance that he could be pleasantly surprised.

I don�t really think Dad was a pessimist, though, as he bought Powerball tickets every week. In fact, he bought one about an hour before he died. But the lottery plays on false hope � yes, you may win, but the odds are so small as to be negligible.

Originally Posted by World of Psychology
Not all hopes are alike. There are many different kinds like daily hopes � that rain won�t spoil the picnic, that the dentist will not find cavities. Or still larger hopes, for example that our children will be healthy and happy or that we will emerge from the recession and find adequate work. Or even more substantial hopes for a cure for cancer, for the well-being of our planet.

Here are still more kinds of hope. Remember most hope is good � it�s just important to understand there are different flavors of it!

1. Inborn Hope � Most children have hope, it�s their basic disposition unless adults do something to threaten it. Some people have to struggle for their hope while others seem to have it so easily. It depends on disposition.

2. Chosen Hope � This is the person with cancer who determinedly chooses to believe that treatment will be successful no matter the current outlook. It�s a parent�s right to hope for a child, even if things don�t look good at the moment. Chosen hope is a life stance.

3. Borrowed Hope � Sometimes another person sees causes for hope in your life more easily than you can. If the person is honest and trustworthy, you can borrow their confidence in you, and their hope for you.

4. Bargainer�s Hope � When a daunting challenge or crisis crashes into our life, we can take a bargainer�s position. This position says, �If I do this, then that will happen,� There�s nothing wrong with bargainer�s hope, its human nature and often a first response to something really hard.

5. Unrealistic Hope � This kind of hope belongs to teenagers who believe they could be the next Michael Jordan of basketball. Or the hope created by the promise of a certain cereal will help you lose weight and keep it off for years to come. You�re hoping for things that could happen, but it�s not probable.

6. False Hope � There are silly versions of false hope, like chain letters promising money if you send them along. Or more serious false hopes, like the ones created by nasty insurance schemes that bilk money from people. And everyday examples of false hope, such as the hope that one person, whether friend or spouse, can meet all your needs and make you happy.

7. Mature Hope � A person with this kind of hope can wait. His or her hope is not based on particular outcomes or on a belief that everything will turn out well. Mature hope is based on meaning. In other words, things are worthwhile regardless of how they turn out.

Martin Luther King Jr., took the long view when he said, �The long arm of history bends toward justice.� Mature hope is a hope that jumps in to participate in the desired outcome. It doesn�t give up easily and it can be the most fulfilling.

Original here.

In that sense, #7 is more like Havel: Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense regardless of how it turns out. Part of mature hope is acceptance � we accept that things may not turn out exactly as we planned, that we can�t predict the future, but that life is worthwhile � maybe even darn near miraculous at times - no matter what happens.

And I think even �good� hope must be accompanied by action. I think that�s the essence behind the oft-quoted statement here on MB, �Plan Hope is not a Plan!� If you just sit back and �hope� for the best, then that�s no better than the pessimistic guy who sits back and does nothing because he feels that nothing he does will make a difference.


FWW

"Snow and adolescence are the only problems that disappear if you ignore them long enough." ~ Earl Wilson
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Sunday's message was titled:
Pessimistic about the future.

"A pessimist is one who feels bad when he feels good for fear he'll fear worse when he feels better." ~ Unk.

"Uncertainty is the only certainty there is, and knowing how to live with insecurity is the only security." ~ John Allen Paulos

John 14:27
"Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."

John 16:33
"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart. I have overcome the world."

Peace is all about perspective. In the heat of battle, we lose perspective. The closer we are to the trouble, the more we are likely to develop blind spots.

Peace brings confidence.
Peace brings assurance.
Peace brings obedience.
Peace brings trust.

smile


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Indeed!

Quote
7. Mature Hope � A person with this kind of hope can wait. His or her hope is not based on particular outcomes or on a belief that everything will turn out well. Mature hope is based on meaning. In other words, things are worthwhile regardless of how they turn out.

This is exactly correct.
Thanks WPG.

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I see the hope in the trees: they are brown now, but based on evidence I hope and know that soon green new leaves will unfurl.

The joy and wonder of plants sprouting from planted seed, one day to bloom and fruit, never ceases to amaze me.

The awesome power we humans have been given to work order against chaos even in such little acts of housework makes me smile and brings joy even still.

One of the greatest gifts of our Maker, I feel, is our ability to experience, know, and share joy and hope and love.




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"The best way to not feel hopeless is to get up and do something. Don�t wait for good things to happen to you. If you go out and make some good things happen, you will fill the world with hope, you will fill yourself with hope."


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by wulffpack_girl
Pep, your topic made me think back to something HHH said to me, about my hope becoming shackles and blinders�and I wondered, because hope seems like such a good thing, but like any good thing, can it become bad or unhealthy?

My daughter and I have been reading the �Percy Jackson� series of books. (Spoiler alert for anyone who wants to read these!) In the last book of the first series, �The Last Olympian,� Percy is given Pandora�s Box (or pithos, as it were) by Prometheus, with hope � all that was left of the original contents of the box - still inside. The myth was presented a bit different in the book � the myth most of us remember is that Pandora, given the box by Zeus, opened the box and allowed all the evils to escape into the world, but quickly shut it just before hope could escape. In �The Last Olympian,� it was presented that she didn�t shut the box to keep hope inside, but hope refused to leave mankind at its hour of greatest need. Percy was presented the box with the offer that all he had to do to stop the battle � to stop the pain and suffering of his friends � he just had to open the box and release hope.

But here�s the real question: why would the Greeks have had Zeus put hope into a box with all those other evil things?

Nietzsche said, In reality, hope is the worst of all evils, because it prolongs man's torments. A man (or woman) might continue to fight a battle that can never be won because as long as he has hope, he will continue to fight�but if that hope is distracting the man from the truth of his situation, then he�s simply living in useless misery, trapped by the illusion of hope.

Shackles and blinders, indeed.

Perhaps the difference lies in recognizing the difference between �good� hope and false hope.

Hope is indeed a wonderful thing, but only when it's real. False hope, though, can cause us to raise our expectations, in the face of incredible odds, and then turn around and crush them. My Dad was fond of saying that he was a pessimist, because if he always expected the worst, he�d never be disappointed�but there was always the chance that he could be pleasantly surprised.

I don�t really think Dad was a pessimist, though, as he bought Powerball tickets every week. In fact, he bought one about an hour before he died. But the lottery plays on false hope � yes, you may win, but the odds are so small as to be negligible.

Originally Posted by World of Psychology
Not all hopes are alike. There are many different kinds like daily hopes � that rain won�t spoil the picnic, that the dentist will not find cavities. Or still larger hopes, for example that our children will be healthy and happy or that we will emerge from the recession and find adequate work. Or even more substantial hopes for a cure for cancer, for the well-being of our planet.

Here are still more kinds of hope. Remember most hope is good � it�s just important to understand there are different flavors of it!

1. Inborn Hope � Most children have hope, it�s their basic disposition unless adults do something to threaten it. Some people have to struggle for their hope while others seem to have it so easily. It depends on disposition.

2. Chosen Hope � This is the person with cancer who determinedly chooses to believe that treatment will be successful no matter the current outlook. It�s a parent�s right to hope for a child, even if things don�t look good at the moment. Chosen hope is a life stance.

3. Borrowed Hope � Sometimes another person sees causes for hope in your life more easily than you can. If the person is honest and trustworthy, you can borrow their confidence in you, and their hope for you.

4. Bargainer�s Hope � When a daunting challenge or crisis crashes into our life, we can take a bargainer�s position. This position says, �If I do this, then that will happen,� There�s nothing wrong with bargainer�s hope, its human nature and often a first response to something really hard.

5. Unrealistic Hope � This kind of hope belongs to teenagers who believe they could be the next Michael Jordan of basketball. Or the hope created by the promise of a certain cereal will help you lose weight and keep it off for years to come. You�re hoping for things that could happen, but it�s not probable.

6. False Hope � There are silly versions of false hope, like chain letters promising money if you send them along. Or more serious false hopes, like the ones created by nasty insurance schemes that bilk money from people. And everyday examples of false hope, such as the hope that one person, whether friend or spouse, can meet all your needs and make you happy.

7. Mature Hope � A person with this kind of hope can wait. His or her hope is not based on particular outcomes or on a belief that everything will turn out well. Mature hope is based on meaning. In other words, things are worthwhile regardless of how they turn out.

Martin Luther King Jr., took the long view when he said, �The long arm of history bends toward justice.� Mature hope is a hope that jumps in to participate in the desired outcome. It doesn�t give up easily and it can be the most fulfilling.

Original here.

In that sense, #7 is more like Havel: Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense regardless of how it turns out. Part of mature hope is acceptance � we accept that things may not turn out exactly as we planned, that we can�t predict the future, but that life is worthwhile � maybe even darn near miraculous at times - no matter what happens.

And I think even �good� hope must be accompanied by action. I think that�s the essence behind the oft-quoted statement here on MB, �Plan Hope is not a Plan!� If you just sit back and �hope� for the best, then that�s no better than the pessimistic guy who sits back and does nothing because he feels that nothing he does will make a difference.



Hope is a grand and powerful thing.

It is even greater when it is shared.


Not everyone can have hope enough for all the world. Not all would accept the hope that we project.


Some... some would feed off of our hope, and exploit it. And in our own enduring hope, we become slaves. Or, some are already slaves, and their hope allows them to exist as such with a strength and serenity unkown to those looking in from the outside.


WPG,


You are trying to share your hope with someone who has none for himself. That can be noble. But, you cannot share with someone something that they do not want, that they will not accept.

In that, you have been shackled by the false hope that it will be accepted, that hope will be wanted.


By the time that happens, you will no longer have any left for yourself.


We cannot share or give what we do not have.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

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Here is AskMe`s devotion from a couple of days ago. Cool how similar revelations come to us at the same time
Originally Posted by AskMe
Romans 15:13 (NIV)
13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.

God is the God of hope and the foundation of which hope is built. God is both the object of hope and the creator of hope. As we place our hope in God and lean not upon our own understanding, we trust God that we will find joy and peace. The more hope we find the more abundant the joy and peace. We should look for this hope through the Holy Spirit; the same one that works grace, calls out on our behalf, and gives us strength. We must give the Holy Spirit glory for securing our hope for it is something we cannot obtain through our own power.



In the autumn of 1873, Horatio Spafford, a wealthy Chicago businessman, placed his wife, Anna, and their four children on the Ville du Havre sailing from New York to France. He was forced to stay in the United States for several more weeks to settle some business matters before he could journey to join the family in Europe.

The evening of November 21 found the Ville du Havre prow-east toward France on a calm Atlantic. The journey was progressing beautifully. A few hours later, about two o�clock in the morning on November 22, the Ville du Havre was carrying its sleeping passengers over a quiet sea when two terrific claps like thunder were followed by frightening screams. The engine stopped, the ship stood still. Passageways were filled with terrified, half-dressed people shouting questions that no one could answer. The Ville du Havre had been rammed by the English vessel, the Lochearn.

Mrs. Spafford saw three of her children swept away by the sea while she stood clutching the youngest child. Suddenly, she felt her baby torn violently from her arms. She reached out through the water and caught little Tanetta�s gown. For a minute she held her again. Then the cloth wrenched from her hand. She reached out again and touched a man�s leg in corduroy trousers. She became unconscious. She awoke later, finding that she had been rescued by sailors from the Lochearn. But her four children were gone.
In the meantime, Horatio Spafford was back in the United States, desperate to receive news of his family. Finally, the blow fell. A cable arrived from Wales stating that the four daughters were lost at sea, but his wife was still alive. He was crushed with what had happened. All night he walked the floor in anguish. Toward the morning he turned to his friend, Major Whittle, and said, �I am glad to trust the Lord when it will cost me something.�

On the way across the Atlantic to join his wife, the captain announced that they were now passing the place where the Ville du Havre was wrecked. For Horatio Spafford, this was passing through the valley of the shadow of death. He sat down in his cabin on the high seas, near the place where his children perished, and wrote the hymn that would give comfort to so many, titled �It Is Well with My Soul.� [John Huffman, �The Fruit of the Spirit Is Peace,� PreachingToday.com]

We all pass through those burdensome moments of life, but God can still bring peace and joy back into our life. Through the power of the Holy Spirit Horatio Spafford was able to take a tragic moment and turn it into a song of comfort and hope for others. May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.






That's an amazing story. Hope by the power of the Holy Spirit. Somehow, it never struck me before that hope was something that was external. I always thought that I of my own volition had to drum it up. But the Holy Spirit living in me and its power is what brings hope. For sure the hymn writer, could not have found that within himself in the wake of such grief without the Spirit of God. Add to that the peace that passeth understanding which I have experienced so much of lately. Hope and peace by God's Holy Spirit. Thank you Father for those gifts.


Me BW: 30
WH: 33

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