It has been over two years since I discovered my husband was having an affair (I innocently picked up his phone to view a video I knew was on there, and saw a text from OW.) I immediately confronted, he initially denied it. I sent him packing, told him to end it. He did. He's been to counselling (I went with him once), he agreed to total openness (tracking on his cellphone, all access to email, cancelled FB, no contact with ANY of her family/friends, changed churches (OW and family attended our church), total confession to all of his family, our 3 daughters and 3 son-in-laws, our priest, my family and his best friend.

We are in recovery now. There has been no contact with the OW. (She was in the midst of a messy divorce/fighting for custody of kids...it all began when we tried to help her through it--helping her ready her home for sale/making minor repairs/helping with childcare etc. Our kindness was repaid by her making advances on my husband; and he fell for her. They had an affair for 13 months! He would meet with her during the work day (he'd leave and go to her apt...she didn't work/her kids in school) Since DD (WH broke up with her same day) there has been no contact; she has since had numerous other affairs (I checked up on her via FB for awhile) and is now living across the country (she left her kids with ex)in her home state.

During the past 2 years we have done numerous things to strengthen our marriage: prayed aloud together twice daily (something we'd rarely done), renewed our marriage vows, read/watched marriage strenthening videos, gone on romantic vacations (building new memories), been open in all communication...helping each other through difficult times (him dealing with his guilt, me with the betrayal), and spent lots of quality time together.

I know we've made huge progress. I rarely break down and cry about it (it was multiple times a day for the first few months). We're happy. I know WH is doing all he knows
how to do to try to assure me he will never do this again (and I believe him): he writes me love notes / emails regularly, he sends flowers (a rarity in the past), he has never refused any request I've had about tracking/openness, he tells me how much he loves me (and shows me) multiple times every day.

Here's my problem: It's been over two years, but I have not been able to put his affair out of my mind...it's ALWAYS there. When I'm at work (teaching JH math), it's there; when I'm driving, it's there (I listen to Christian radio/yet it's still hovering in my mind!); when I'm reading novels if an affair enters the storyline I can't continue reading the book; when I'm home alone (I work minutes from home and arrive about an hour before my husband does) it's there; I try to stay busy (I work fulltime and I'm working on my master's degree;started this a year ago)and yet the affair is still on my mind...

WH has agreed to do anything he can to help me. When he's around, the thoughts lessen. I try not to tell him when the thoughts are really bothering me, but he can usually tell and he tries to assure me that it's over and will never happen again (and I believe him)...BUT the thoughts of the past are still on my mind over two years later.

When this was all fresh, I did not ask him for details (how it started; specifics on what happened / how often / etc.) because I thought that would just put images in my head that I didn't need. But my imagination is putting in images that won't leave me alone...is that even worse? Should I ask for details? Will that make these thoughts go away? or will that just bring more fuel to my brain?

I really thought these thoughts would be gone or at least dramatically lessened by now...I no longer check on the OW as she is across the country (and I thought maybe that was why I couldn't get thoughts and images of them out of my head)...I haven't checked her FB since December.

Any suggestions? I really want to let this go and get on with my/our life! I have prayed for forgiveness; I feel I have with WH, with OW I say I have, but not really sure...I have a lot of anger in my heart for her and what she tried to do to us. I know that may be a part of it, too. I know MB says I don't have to forgive her since she's never asked for it, nor is there a relationshiip there..but I feel God wants us to forgive. My priest says I have a "righteous anger" in my heart towards her and that that's ok.

I wonder if this will ever go away.....


autheabro
BW
Married: 09/29/78
DD: 12/5/10
Full Disclosure to family by WH: immediately following DD
In Recovery: ever since!

I'm sorry for the pain that brought you to Marriage Builders.

You and your H did many things right: No Contact for life and you no longer live close to the OW. No contact goes for you, too. All that looking up OW on Facebook or in any other way is contact for you and will always set you back. You have to force yourself never to do that again. When you think about her, immediately change your thoughts.

Does your H follow Extraordinary Precautions? One of the EPs is never have friends of the opposite sex, meaning a woman friend with whom he discusses personal things. After my H's first affair, he swore he'd never do that to me again, too, but.....it will be the EPs that will keep him from having another affair, not swearing he won't do it again.

Do you know all the conditions of the affair? Have they all been eliminated? Do you know all you want to know about the affair? All questions answered?

Do you spend a minimum of 15 hours of UA time together, meeting each others intimate emotional needs?

Do you know what your emotional needs are? Does he meet them very well? And likewise for your H.

Do you both avoid lovebusters?

Marriage Builders is all about Just Compensation after adultery, rather than forgiveness. Forgiveness is EARNED rather than given.

After two years post D-Day, would you say your marriage is better than ever before?

Thank you for responding.

Yes, I no longer keep track of the OW. (I wrote in to MB a few months ago and that was the advice given to me then, so I have quit monitoring her.) But of course it helps that she is now across the country, too!

Answers to your questions:
Yes, we follow EPs.
WH has answered all questions I've asked of the affair (and says he'll answer whatever I want to ask) BUT two years ago I did not want to know very many details...it was all too fresh and I was a basket case. I thought if I didn't ask details, that I wouldn't "relive" those details in my mind. Instead, my imagination is working overtime filling in details which may or may not be more disturbing than the real one! That's one of my dilemmas...would I be better off asking for more / all details so that I would quit imagining them? or will that just add fuel to the fire in my head? I don't want to make these thoughts worse!

We spend LOTS of UA! We live alone now (kids grown)and do all activities together (gym, dinner out, boating, fishing, even staying home we do things together--we are music ministers so we practice music together, do chores together, garden, take walks or just sit and talk on the porch watching the birds and drinking coffee together). He keeps telling me it was nothing I did wrong, or failed to do...she came on to him (had an amazing body and 12 years younger AND was very needy) and it flattered him...and he fell for it. I've since realized that, although I've ALWAYS needed him, I needed to SHOW and TELL him that more: to make him feel needed. I do that now; all the time. We're actually going away for a long 4 day weekend tomorrow to a cabin for hiking/fishing/nature get-a-way.

We're doing all we can to meet each others ENs. Yes, he meets mine, but I still need a lot of reassurance...and he does. I'm more aware of his needs and strive to meet them as well.

We avoid love busters.

I've heard about Just Compensation on Dr. Harley's video, but maybe I don't get it. My husband is doing all that I've asked of him...he's slowly rebuilding my trust, and I've forgiven him. We're doing everything we know to do to get through this. (with some help from MB, other counselling/guidance, full effort on both of our part to fight for our marriage, and prayer). So I'd say he's earning my trust. As far as forgiving the OW; I don't know...I'm trying. But, again, Dr. Harley response is that I don't need to forgive her: She has not asked me to, I don't have a relationship with her. It's just MY belief as a Christian that I should eventually forgive her. Right now, all I can do is pray that she never be allowed to hurt another marriage again as she did ours and stay away from married men.

Is our marriage better than ever? I guess in some ways, yes. We truly love each other, and know how precious that is...especially since we nearly lost it. I'm happy; my husband says he's happy.

But I also guess that part of me was killed when DD happened. I thought our marriage was SO strong, SO happy, and that we could totally trust each other. Because of that betrayal, can I ever say that it's better than ever? I wish I knew. I know we love each other, and our marriage is everything to us. Is that love going to eventually bury these thoughts of his affair from being on my mind all the time? That's what I don't know.

Does ANYONE who's been betrayed have the answer to when it will leave the forefront of my thoughts and become just a faded memory????

Or have some advice on what else to do????

Even getting on this site makes me feel guilty...like I'm dwelling on it/prolonging the agony!

How often do you think about it LongWayFromHome?

autheabro, when a BS does not have the facts about an affair, she tends to wonder and imagine until she does have all the facts. Knowing the facts helps you put the affair into perspective and then put it to bed. Here is how Dr Harley describes it:

here

The next thing that has to happen is that the conditions that led to the affair should eliminated. It sounds like that has happened, but I wonder WHAT is triggering you specifically? Does he travel? Does he ever spend the night apart from you? Does your home trigger you?

Are you talking about the affair? If you are, then you are keeping yourself triggered. Every time you speak of it, you bring the tragedy of the past into the present.

Can you pinpoint these triggers?

The next thing you should look at is the level of romantic love in your marriage. Do you spend 15 to 20 hours of undivided attention time - ALONE WITH EACH OTHER - meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs?

Becasue if you don't, you are not filling the wound left by the affair with a happy marriage. REcovery has to include the creation of a happy, romantic, passionate marriage to fill that gaping wound.

If you are happy in the present you don't tend to think of the past. You mentioned alot of romantic gestures, but NONE of those will create a romantic marriage if you are not spending AT LEAST 15 hours each week of UA time, AND spending every night together.

It leaves the forefront when something BETTER comes along to replace it. Recovery happens when you create something BETTER than what you had before the affair. I don't think that has happened here. This is why it is so important to create a romantic relationship. Not just happiness, but a passionate, romantic relationship.

I don't get the sense that you have achieved that and I think this might be the BIG MISS. Do you feel passionate, tear off your clothes kind of passion for one another? Are you each others favorite leisure activity? Do you have an incredible attraction for each other?

What was missing in your marriage that attracted your husband to the OW?

What are his top 5 emotional needs?

MelodyLane has some great things for you to consider.

As to your question if I still think about it? Yes, thoughts of the betrayal do still intrude briefly, on a daily basis, BUT, they are no longer painful. I don't have the searing resentment any more. I put the thought out of my mind right away and remember what we have today.

I can look at our current marriage and feel very happy about what we NOW have. If I spend much time looking at our past, it's depressing and painful. If I think of the NOW, I'm happy and in love. My H is obviously in love with me. He's become a man I can easily admire and love.

The blind trust is gone forever, but we should never have had it in the first place.

When the present is great and your marriage is protected with EPs...when you are in love and you know that your H is in love with you...when you spend lots of time alone together and they are the best hours of your week...when you are passionate together..when you can't wait to be together again at the end of the work day...the happiness of today will make your painful yesterday less painful and you will eventually think of it less and less. From some of the recovered folks, I hear that they wake up one day and realize they haven't thought of it at all for a few days. I'm not quite there yet, but no more pain, no more resentment, in love. People here say that recovery is a journey, not a destination; a marathon, not a sprint.

Thank you for the reponse. I hadn't read that post by Dr. Harley. Thank you for that. I guess I need to know those details. I will bring it up tomorrow on our drive out to our get-a-way...and maybe that will help.

As far as talking about it: no, we try not to dwell on it. We discuss it when its really bothering one of us (him...guilt/ me...hurt) and then move past it and try to live in the present. I think that works best for us. Talk about it when we need to, but then be HERE.

As far as romantic love, yes, it's there. I'm pretty private about that, so it probably doesn't come through in my posts, but yes, that part is there. We're more passionate than ever before...probably because we know how fragile the "us" is; and how close we came to losing it. We start and end the day with "I love you"s, kisses, hugs and touches. We hold hands often.

Triggers? Using when I'm alone and have too much time to dwell on it. We avoid all places associated with her. Occasionally something will happen totally out of my control. I went out to eat in a local restaurant in the middle of the day (unheard of for a teacher, but we were at a workshop) and the waitress was the OW daughter. She is a former student of mine (now about 20) who knows about it. I know I had a stunned look on my face, and barely spoke to her, even though her first response to seeing me was a huge smile. I went home and told my husband about it. He suggested writing the daughter a letter to explain why I acted as I did; so I did. It was brief, but I explained that although I knew she was not to blame for her mother's actions, I just couldn't see her without thinking of her mom. I told her we could not have any sort of relationship, but that if we met again I would smile at her and be friendly. (I know she knows...her father told us that after this whole thing came to light). But other than those unavoidable things, we try to steer clear of triggers.

We spend every night together (and always have). We spend probably 30+ hours of UA / week, easily.

And we are dedicated to living in the present and trying to make new memories (we've increased our "date nights", trips, etc. as well as just appreciating being together at home and being together.

We have 3 daughters and son-in-laws and 7 grandbabies that fill our lives with laughter and love that we're both devoted to, and make time to go visit them / or have them over often.

What else can we do? We're both REALLY trying to move beyond!

Thanks for any advice you might have to help us!

Do you feel like an equal partner in the marriage? My experience has been that once you both feel like you are treated as equal partners, you should be focused on meeting each others ENs and make the decision (your choice) to out the affair behind you. If you can't put it behind you, then something still needs to be done to build trust and provide just compensation. The EPs are your boundaries that help to rebuild your trust. They are YOUR compensation for the affair.

Do you feel compensated?

Are you living near OW? How far away are you? Did your H and she do things in the local area?

You might well benefit from moving away from that area altogether. Someone who has advised you - MelodyLane - was living in the house where she lived on D Day, for a long time after D Day. The affair never took place in the house, but that is where she was living when the misery unfolded. It wasn't until she moved away for completely unrelated reasons that she realised how much happier she and her H were.

(Mel - please tell the proper version of this story!)

Moving also gives you a new interest, because you get to choose a new kitchen (always a joy!), and to throw out your junk, clear out the clutter, choose new furniture if necessary and spend lots of money.

Shopping is good therapy!

Once you have all your questions answered regarding the affair, you should never again bring it up. Either of you. Leave the past where it belongs - in the past.

Taling about the affair will not help your H assuage his guilt. And it will not help you somehow feel better about it. It will always make both of you feel worse.

Your H will feel better as time goes by and he becomes a terrific husband and gives you just compensation for what he did.

You will feel better as you stop talking about it. I know this is hard to do. I struggled with it for a long time, but I just had to bite my tongue. Bringing it up never ever helped me.

Signing up for the online seminar was our turning point. You and your H might consider doing that.

Thank you for responding. And yes, I know we have a passionate marriage...I'm just kind of private about posting those kinds of things. He writes me love songs and poems and is very demonstative with his love. I, too, write him love notes, make romantic dinners by candlelight, give him massages by candlelight...etc.

And as far as what was missing...I asked that over and over (especially soon after DD) and he keeps telling me I did nothing wrong. We married young (17 and 19)and are now 52 and 54...he says he was flattered when a much younger woman with a great body (I added that part--she is a trainer and used to compete in body building) came on to him and acted like she needed him so (she played the "poor pitiful abused wife" role to a tee...we both found out later she was NEVER abused by her husband and that SHE was the cause of their divorce...she'd cheated on him over and over during their marriage!!!) I, on the other hand, was not "needy" (he views me as very strong emotionally and smart) and after 5 pregnancies and 32 years of marriage (at the time)was not as exciting and new. He's since told me over and over how stupid he was, and how grateful he is that I've taken him back after his betrayal of our marriage vows. I'm doing what I can to fill his emotional needs; including losing 30 pounds to feel more attractive and healthy, making sure he knows how much I need him and love him, and making sure that my eyes are wide open now to possible dangers. I once lost it when I overheard him talking to one of his employees (he's the boss) about her needing time off due to going through problems with her marriage. (He was listening to her unload via his cell, and he was trying to be understanding about her problems yet let her know she needed to be at work.) I cut him off and told him she was giving him TMI! and that it was not HIS business to know that; and that he did not need to act like a friend...he was her BOSS and the relationship needed to stay that way. He just looked at me stunned and said "she's fat and ugly, and I'm just trying to be nice to her" and I said that I didn't care. That kind of behavior was not acceptable. He then saw the connection to the past and called her back (in my presence)and told her that he did not want any more phone calls / discussions about her personal life / issues anymore, and that if she needed time off, simply to state that--without all the details. He's always been a good listener and easy to talk to--that's why lots of people are attracted to him (both male and female) and I told him that from now on, no female had the right to form a relationship with him (other than family) and that if she tried HE would have to put a stop to it. It was one of those "now I'm aware" moments that I wish I'd known about 3 years ago!

I believe we're meeting each others needs. We've discussed them... (his are to feel needed, words of affirmation, acts of love, communication, and physical touch) We are living in the present...and making new memories...and treasuring each moment.

What else can we do?

I would guess that you talk about this affair fairly (once a month?) often from your posts. That's your problem. Get the details and shut down the affair talk for good. You're keeping yourself triggered by bringing it to the fore ever so often.

The OW is now living across the country, but her ex and their children (the oldest being the one I mentioned working at the restaurant) still live in this town.

I see another of her daughters often (she attends the school I teach at) and she'll be on my campus one more year. Then her youngest brother will be here for the next 3 after that...assuming they don't move.

Affair happened mostly at her apt (15 miles away) and they ate out once at a restaurant (which we will never visit again). They were never in our home together.

Her moving away has helped tremendously (that only happened a few months ago). Knowing I won't bump into her eases my mind.

The above needs you mention are not a part of the Marriage Builders nomenclature. Dr. Harley has some very specific needs that his research concluded most men have. Here

The top five emotional needs for most men:

1.) Sexual Fulfillment
2.) Recreational Companionship
3.) Admiration
4.) Physical Attractiveness
5.) Domestic Support

What the OW probably did as to give him lots of admiration and be physically attractive to start with. When one or two emotional needs are met, it's not long before the rest of them follow.

auth, a couple of things stand out to me. First off, the above are NOT emotional needs and won't serve to create romantic love. Those sound like terms from "Love Languages" which has no plan to transform a marriage.

I suspect a couple of things have happened here. The first is that your husband is not completely honest about things that bother him in your marriage. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. He probably is in the habit of holding things in that bother him, for example your weight gain. If you were 30 pounds overweight and he was attracted by the OW's physique, it is likely that one of his top needs is physical attraction. Men are visually stimulated so this is very often at the top of their list of ENs.

If you don't know his emotional needs, that means you and your H are playing a game of pool blindfolded and are missing the mark. I would take the EN questionaires, lovebusters questionaires and the marital analysis questionaire. When you both take them, come back here and let us know the result.

Your husband MUST COMMIT to being honest, though. If he is not honest, this will not work.


Gotcha. How does he feel - honestly - that it is now? Is it exciting and NEW to him TODAY? What about you? How would you rate it?

My husband and I moved to another town, into another house 7 years after the affair when we were well into recovery and it pushed us to a new level of marital happiness. I didn't realize how SAD I had been in that house until I got out of there. Even though the OW lived in another state [had never even been to our state] just the fact that I had been so SAD there created a black cloud over our marriage.

And Dr Harley has noticed this effect on others. He sometimes recommends moving to a new home to create new memories.

No, we don't talk about it often. When something happens to bring it to back (like running into her daughter at that restaurant)or if one of us is really having a difficult time with it, we bring it up. I would say maybe 3-4 times in the past year? and more frequently the first year (but not monthly).

Autheabro,

But my imagination is putting in images that won't leave me alone...is that even worse? Should I ask for details? Will that make these thoughts go away? or will that just bring more fuel to my brain?

I would suggest yes as you need to have radical honesty between man and wife, and your H and the OW should not share secrets you do not know about, this is the last remaining intimacy between your H and OW.

After your H tells you "everything" get a polygraph. Wayward spouses often leave out important details or ones they think will hurt you. Who turned a blind eye to the affair, but remained in your lives for example.

God Bless
Gamma

Gotcha? really? Is this what this is? I thought you were trying to help! Now I feel like I'm on the defensive just because I don't know your "lingo" ...

I DO know my husband's needs! We had a talk tonight about all of this (part of our UA that we have every day...dinner conversations). He again reassured me that I was NOT to blame...that he even "used" my weight gain as an excuse for his attraction to her, but now that he's out of that "fog" he was in during the affair, he knows now that's all it was...an excuse. In reality, he said HE let himself get complacent with our marriage. He said he basically was in a "mid-life crisis" and was flattered and then excited when the OW made a play for him. He said he never was emotionally attached to her, nor loved her. He felt attracted to her, was enticed with the newness...but actually got bored with the sex pretty quickly. He assured me that he loved me now more than ever, because he realizes now how wonderful I am, how devoted, how faithfilled, what a great wife, mother, and grandmother I am. And I wasn't HUGE...I went from a size 12 to a size 8 in losing that weight! It's not like I was obese or anything! I've always taken pride in my appearance, but some medical issues I had had promoted some weight gain. I asked him point blank tonight what I had done or failed to do to cause this and he again said nothing...you have always been a great wife, and I've always loved you and always will. He said he would always regret this action and would spend the rest of his life doing his best to make it up to me. He answered all the questions I had for him. Some of the things I asked were "did you ever love her? (no) did you ever tell her that you did? (no) did you ever go anywhere you didn't already tell me about (one restaurant) (no...he didn't want to be seen with her)do you ever think about her? (only with disgust that she enticed him to do this...he has since found out from her ex that she has done this numerous times) do you wonder if our relationship gets "routine" you will be tempted again? (NO! I now realize how amazing you are, and how important our marriage is and I will never do this to you / us again!) We had just read a devotional (by Dr. James Dobson) about marriages going through romantic periods and serene periods and how normal that was. He told me that if we were in the "serene" part of our marriage some time in the future again, (as it was in at the time the affair began) he would either be fully content with the serenity of it, or do things to heat up the romance again. He also told me (and he's never told me this until tonight) that I am a better lover than SHE ever was. (This WAS one of my fears!) The excitement of newness and illicitness quickly wore off, and after that happened he said it was actually boring...he was looking for ways to break it off with her BEFORE I ever discovered about it; he'd actually tried twice, but she became so depressed (she was on meds for bipolar / mental issues) that he feared she would hurt herself or her kids. All of this came out tonight and actually made me feel great! I didn't cry; he was very sincere and offered to tell me anything I asked. I still don't know some of the details, but I don't think I need to know anything else.

I know he loves me. I know I love him. I know that we will make it. And if it takes years to fade away, so be it. I'll deal with it.

And, quite honestly, I won't ever get on this site again.

This is not to say it doesn't do good; it does. It has helped me...sometimes just putting words down does that. Sometimes the words were wise. But sometimes the words have been very judgemental, frivolous (shopping for a new kitchen???), and wrong! What it has done is caused ME to dwell on it, and I refuse to do that. All of the actions I initially took I did on my OWN purely by my instincts (months later, as I read books or sought counselling did I learn I took most of the right steps!) So, I am going to CONTINUE to deal with this in my own way with the love and support of faith, my husband, family, and depend on them. Goodbye, and please be careful what you say here...people are in a vulnerable state who come here. Remember that.