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I'm impressed with the way you have handled things thus far.

You can keep your head held high, and KNOW that you are doing EVERYTHING you can to save your marriage.

Your WW is sticking pretty much to script, which means that this program really CAN work for you. And it's GREAT to see that she isn't sure what you are going to do next. She thought that you were going to be one way, and you aren't following her plans. Keep her guessing and you'll be ahead of her. Also, remember that although you are having a high right now in Plan A, there can be a HUGE shift. Please, keep your emotions in check, and your eye on the plan.


BW(Me)aka Scotty:37
DSx2: 10,12
DDAY2(PA)Nov27/09
Plan B Dec18/09
Personal R in works
Scotty's THING laugh
Newly Betrayed click here


Praying for walls and doors. Thanx MM

Surviving is important. Thriving is elegant.
? Maya Angelou

PROGRESS NOT PERFECTION

THANK YOU
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Hey FG,
I feel very positive about your circumstances FG. At least you wife is giving you some information about her plans for the future and its something to work with and you don't have to guess so much.

But her plans seem pretty limited ---which is good for you. It sounds like she is mostly interacting and making plans for the future with other waywards. We know wayward planning and MB planning is very different. We know way wards have the notion their wayward ways will create abundance. But we all know wayward ways diminishes the value of everything.

Here's how I see the system works Willy Wonka style:

-We each have a love bank.
-Our spouse has to have exclusive access to a very special door or lane in our bank.
-Others can enter ie children, friends, extended family and so on but they belong in another lane or thru a different door. Some are not allowed in at all.
-When our spouse arrives in our bank we acknowledge them and make it easy for them to have access to making deposits.
-The deposits they make are valued much higher then anyone; much like the goose that laid the golden egg. The exclusiveness of the relationship is what supercharges the value of the love units.
-the exclusiveness of the lane or special door is known and the spouses make sure others respect their special love bank doors.

-Lots of other people enter the other general door on a regular basis
-The owner of the bank makes sure no one jumps the line and enter their spouses lane at the bank.
-If someone enters thru the special door this action will diminish the value of the spouses love units whether intentionally or unintentional or for 'good reason' or not so good reasons.
-The devaluing of love units will diminish the value of the units whether our spouses know about the lane jumping or not.
-In fact, in time both spouses love units will diminish even if only one spouse is allowing others thru their exclusive entrance. The extra debits coming in from what's become a non-exclusive account. ie your spouse is giving away your units and her/his units.
-At first your spouse might see a bigger gain in her own account given she appears to be reaping rewards from several love banks and her own because she is selectively depositing units to others accounts. (selfish)
-If you (BW/BH) are left to stand in the general or public lane your value will decrease and eventually have no worth and even worse create extra fees. Does not matter for what reason. For example, you are not spending enough UA time together due to work schedule. Its like your hybrid status to be the goose that lays golden eggs in an exclusive lane is all you can do.
-If a spouse gets greedy and decides they'll allow others in to the exclusive parts of their bank with the misguided notion they will enjoy much more revenue and others can produce golden eggs just like you, its comes to pass its only an illusion.
-They eventually basically kill the golden goose...the marriage, the exclusive part that produced the golden eggs. They will also devalue their own account and their other patrons especailly their special patron will start accruing losses too.

Negative feedback loop.

At any rate, I'm sure you get the idea. (My imagination got the best of me)



I am wondering what gave her the idea to treat you with such thoughtlessness and indifference as you are the father to her children and she keeps saying she want to move forward with out you? You have to have a mutual interest in the boys welfare and part of that is her responsibility to protect you from her thoughtlessness together or apart. This is what I mean by the illusion and the devaluing above. Right now it is her illusion to gain big rewards in the future ie start a future with someone else. I am glad you woke up and can be the wisdom to her folly.


Also I think she thought she could play you like a violin. But gosh gee wiz, she thought she knew you. But you are making it hard for her to simply edit you out just the way she likes it. She thought it would be easy by just saying "I don't love you." The violin is popping strings right and left!

And if she wants a divorce why haven't you received papers from her attorney? I doubt she had some big plan for the future. Just wayward stuff. She is winging it and attempting to wear you down to do the deed for her. Accusing you of acting up and victimizing her. Sheesh.

She is killing the goose. Sorry--- gander.


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NG - I read your story last night.

Well, you might want to read the rest of the story of that summer. The relevant notes start with about the 111th one, dated 16 January of this year.

Pepperband has suggested making a movie, but we're stuck on casting decisions.
I want NG to be played by Patrick Dempsey ,
but Bride prefers Danny DeVito .

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The reason she sees no hope and shut you down last night is because her A is going stronger than ever now.

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Originally Posted By: 20YearHistory

The reason she sees no hope and shut you down last night is because her A is going stronger than ever now.



Yeah that could be. Not sure if you saw my post yesterday that OM left WW a VM Wednesday night saying I have not spoken to you in a few days and wanted to see how you were.

20Y I appreciate you checking in on me and your input but you always wanting me to get fired up and upset is not helping me. I cannot control WW or OM. I can only control my actions. In plan A I must assume A is still ongoing.


ME: BS, 37
WW: 37
DS 7 DS 5
Married 11 Years
DDay 2/4/13 EA
ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13
Nuclear Expose:2/18/13
Currently in Plan A
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She is speaking Wayward 101. Your plan A is stellar. It really is. Setting the environment and tone for her return is well with in your power.

Problem is, until her A ends you are going nowhere.

The longer the A goes..the more entrenched they become, more damage is done..result = more difficult R.

I am going to emplore you one last time to dig your heals in and try to end this A. I will be happy to stay off your thread.

I went through EXACTLY what you are going through right now. I made some tactical errors and hate to see you do the same thing.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted By: Floridaguy
Yeah that could be.


FG...it isn't a "yeah could be"

Guarantee it 100%

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Going to share 1 more piece of insight for you and then I will leave this alone.

When I was trying to win my FWW back I was so wrapped up into the moment..I didn't know what I didn't know..and what the future will hold.


I was working hard on Plan A, I was working very hard to win her back. She was still in contact with POSOM for months after dday.


As Dr Harley says, 'most affairs die a natural death'


What I didn't realize was the damage that was occuring during my Plan A. Unfortunately, I wasn't on this forum for help at the time.


What I mean is that once she did come back, so much more damage had been done that it made MY inviting her back into my heart became much more difficult.


What you are not taking into consideration is that if she comes back...how YOU are going to feel when you realize the A never stopped after dday.


Look, do what you will. Hey, it is your life and your M. I am speaking the truth here.

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Originally Posted By: 20YearHistory
I am going to emplore you one last time to dig your heals in and try to end this A.


I've been following your thread FG and I really don't know if you ever exposed the OM. I remember years ago reading MyWifeILove's entire story, following him along. He was fortunate that his W's A died a pretty quick death and she came back to him. He did a stellar Plan A and Plan B.

I really am undecided what your next move in regards to your W's A should be. 20Y is certainly of the opinion you need to make this guy feel some pain. Im leaning that way too.

I would be interested to see what Steve has to say on this matter. Not sure if that has come up in your discussions yet. Much will probably depend on whether or not your W calls him and if she does what is accomplished in that call.


Me: 57 Her: 54
M: 31 years
Kids(DS23, DD20, DS18)
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I get what 20y is saying. Its extremely difficult to go forward when WW/WH return after finding and experiencing with much more understanding the level of attachment to the POSOM and independent lifestyle.

And it does seem almost impossible to deal with wayward arrogance and sense of entitlement to have an A. She is cooking up ways to make it your fault. You made her so so unhappy for so many years. blah blah (Rewrite history)

She will continue to gain from maintaining this hurtful perspective long after the A is over if she does not follow the rules of marriage.

She is saying you are just making it worse now. (Harder to be with POSOM with all this confusion exploding all around her) Read Jon's perspective in SA over and over. You could be in the first chapter in your marriage recovery.

You are doing well. I wish I'd known a lot more about myself and how the fog babble was so advantageous for my WH to continue to hammer me with. I still struggle with feeling unprotected from my husband allowing others into my exclusive place thru his door. He's a IBer.

He does this very subtly and helps me become complicit. I feel good I have isolated this weakness so I can attempt to manage it rather then deny it.

Anyway, its these types of weaknesses the wayward can continue to drill down on out of entrenched habits that make the environment feel as unprotected as ever.

And of course its very easy to fan the fire yourself and create more pain. As Dr Harley says its instinctual to use selfish demands, disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts. The whole marriage will ride on getting a handle on these instincts when together in marriage home 24/7.


BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren

"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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Originally Posted By: 20YearHistory

Playing too much hardball might blow your chances...might not. Impossible to predict. I chose to be Mr Cool and let the chips fall where they did...worked for me.



I am catching up on this thread and want to agree with 20yearhistory's point. He is exactly right. It has to be a delicate balance and if you go too far, this will not work. I am convinced that men get a better payoff when they use alot of carrot and little stick. Expose FAST and get it out of the way. After that, focus on the carrot.

FG, I haven't read everything yet, but did you expose to the OM's contacts?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted By: Floridaguy
I cannot control WW or OM. I can only control my actions. In plan A I must assume A is still ongoing.


You've done well, grasshopper.

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Originally Posted By: Floridaguy

Thanks MrW. My plan is IF she is willing to talk to Steve then I will go ahead and make the appointment for her. She will just know the day, time, and number to call Steve. I can email him ahead of time and ask not to mention the Website.

I doubt she will even agree to calling Steve but no expectations



What about asking Steve to call her? Offer to pay for an appointment and ask your wife if Steve can call her to get her perspective? Then get with Steve and ask him when he can call.

"My counselor, Steve, is trying to help me get through this and move forward. He wants to get your perspective on the situation. Can he call you to discuss?"


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thats a really interesting suggestion.

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Yeah...it'll also, perhaps, avoid the common wayward objection that they don't want to talk to some counselor that the betrayed spouse found on the internet (as if counselors on the internet are somehow less than a local real life counselor/coach).

She should just be left to infer that the counselor is some local guy that Flordiaguy is seeing. Getting her on the phone call is more important than full or any real disclosure up front...because disclosure only leads to more questions and more objections.

my counselor wants to call you...he has an opening at 2pm Saturday or 4 pm Monday ...which one works for you?

If and when she responds with a time...say "Thank you...Steve will call you between 2 and 2:10 pm on XYZ date. I really appreciate you doing this for me. It's really weird talking to some person other than you about my life. Bringing him up to speed will really be helpful."


That's it.

Mr. W

p.s. - FG, you've done a really good job monitoring the situation. You presume the affair continues but don't fully disengage on snooping out the truth. It's easier to be "more carrot" when you kind of have a good idea based upon good intel that she's not in a full on physical affair. Your situation differs from the history of many here in that regard in that you haven't uncovered ANY physical affair YET. Her emotional affair was/is short in duration and absent sex (and the endorphins involved therein) it may not have ever been that entrenched. She may just be in love with the idea of being single again, free of the responsibility of taking care of several children most of the time and a husband (whom she's convinced herself is not her soulmate). Just be diligent...where there is smoke there is often a fire.


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: 20YearHistory

Playing too much hardball might blow your chances...might not. Impossible to predict. I chose to be Mr Cool and let the chips fall where they did...worked for me.



I am catching up on this thread and want to agree with 20yearhistory's point. He is exactly right. It has to be a delicate balance and if you go too far, this will not work. I am convinced that men get a better payoff when they use alot of carrot and little stick. Expose FAST and get it out of the way. After that, focus on the carrot.

FG, I haven't read everything yet, but did you expose to the OM's contacts?


Melody where you been?? smile

Yes, I have exposed to OM FB AND his entire work place email list found on their company website, even though WW and OM do not work together.

I need to chill with OM right now. I need to Plan A and work on me. I know all the Plan A'ing will do nothing if the A is still going on but I am not sure what I can do short of breaking his kneecaps but I do not think that is in the best interests of my children.

I will see WW Sunday night and will ask if she will speak to Steve. If she says yes then I will call and make the appt for her. If she says no then I will need to Plan A for awhile longer and ask again.

My son's birthday is next Friday. I have the kids next week. WW knows my plan is to take boys to Disney World Friday night for a rockem' sockem' all out throw-down great time. I have been blessed to have 4 lifetime MAGIC PASSES (gets you to the front of the line with NO WAITING for all rides). We will be leaving right after school.

SO, why would WW call me yesterday to update her Disney Pass??? Hmmm. You think she wants to come Friday??? As I have mentioned WW is scared to leave a 5mi radius of her home. I needed to take her EVERYWHERE. She will never take the hour ride with the boys to Disney by herself. NEVER... She did say to me yesterday to stop asking her out but then QUICKLY changed the subject.

I also have the official birthday party scheduled for Saturday PM.

Steve said not to bargain with WW to get her to speak to him. He said if she said "if you take the dog back then I speak to Steve." Then my reply was simply "this does not need to be a negotiation".

WW will somehow ask to come to Disney on Friday. And I will see her Saturday at the party. That still gives me some Plan A face time. IF after that she still does not want to talk to Steve. Then Steve said to regroup and make an appt with him to discuss.

Mr.W... IF WW comes with to disney gonna need your help BIG TIME! NO EXPECTATIONS!!


ME: BS, 37
WW: 37
DS 7 DS 5
Married 11 Years
DDay 2/4/13 EA
ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13
Nuclear Expose:2/18/13
Currently in Plan A
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Originally Posted By: MrWondering
Yeah...it'll also, perhaps, avoid the common wayward objection that they don't want to talk to some counselor that the betrayed spouse found on the internet (as if counselors on the internet are somehow less than a local real life counselor/coach).

She should just be left to infer that the counselor is some local guy that Flordiaguy is seeing. Getting her on the phone call is more important than full or any real disclosure up front...because disclosure only leads to more questions and more objections.

p.s. - FG, you've done a really good job monitoring the situation. You presume the affair continues but don't fully disengage on snooping out the truth. It's easier to be "more carrot" when you kind of have a good idea based upon good intel that she's not in a full on physical affair. Your situation differs from the history of many here in that regard in that you haven't uncovered ANY physical affair YET. Her emotional affair was/is short in duration and absent sex (and the endorphins involved therein) it may not have ever been that entrenched. She may just be in love with the idea of being single again, free of the responsibility of taking care of several children most of the time and a husband (whom she's convinced herself is not her soulmate). Just be diligent...where there is smoke there is often a fire.


Thanks MrW. WW thinks this is a local counselor down the street. I just said i was speaking to a counselor. I never mentioned it was by phone.


ME: BS, 37
WW: 37
DS 7 DS 5
Married 11 Years
DDay 2/4/13 EA
ILYBINILWY; 2/6/13
Nuclear Expose:2/18/13
Currently in Plan A
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Originally Posted By: Floridaguy

I need to chill with OM right now. I need to Plan A and work on me. I know all the Plan A'ing will do nothing if the A is still going on but I am not sure what I can do short of breaking his kneecaps but I do not think that is in the best interests of my children.


BUT......if the affair is still ongoing it would be helpful if you confronted him. That is exactly what Dr Harley would recommend. Are you snooping? I find it almost unfathomable that your wife left you over an EA. Honestly, I have never heard of a WW doing that. It is always a PA because that is the level of intensity that propels her into wanting to leave. Are you watching her place when she doesn't have the kids to see if he is around?

Quote:
I will see WW Sunday night and will ask if she will speak to Steve. If she says yes then I will call and make the appt for her. If she says no then I will need to Plan A for awhile longer and ask again.


What if you made a tentative appointment with Steve for sometime next week? Find out when he has openings and then when you see your wife, ask her if your "counselor" can call her sometime next week to get her perspective? HAve his available times in your hand and ask her if she would have time at any of those times. Don't make it sound like an hour long appt, just mention a general time and say he will call you sometime in this time frame.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Quote:
Steve said not to bargain with WW to get her to speak to him. He said if she said "if you take the dog back then I speak to Steve." Then my reply was simply "this does not need to be a negotiation".


Thanks for sharing this. I really love his suggested reply.
SEE F-Guy .... you are teaching me as you learn.
Cool beans cool

Click to reveal..

F-Guy rotflmao
I'm feeling silly today.

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