|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23 |
Reading this site has helped me a lot, but now I need some specific advice.
My wife and I have been married 11 years, and after our second son was born 6 years ago we gradually fell into a bad cycle of love busting behaviors. We both knew something had to change, and had discussed it, but I was still caught off guard when she asked for a separation. She said she "needed some space" to figure things out and heal, so we could work on our issues.
Tearfully (and foolishly), I agreed to move out at the beginning of November. Within days, I began to find hints that something else was going on, so I started to snoop. At the same time, I started working on improving myself, making changes to be a better husband. By the beginning of December, I had confirmed my suspicions and confronted her about them. She confessed that she was having an affair and also said that she had noticed all my improvements and believed they validated her decision to end the relationship.
At that point, Christmas holidays intervened and we alternated custody of the children. In January, I discovered this website and asked her to end her relationship with the OP and give me a chance to meet her ENs. She refused and tried to tell me what a great guy the OP was, and how he'd be a great addition to our children's lives. She told me how she believed that the boys would be better off with two happy households rather than one unhappy family. At that point, I decided to expose the affair, because it became clear to me that she was living in a fantasy world.
I sent email to her closest friends and spoke with her parents on the phone. I sent direct FB messages to the OPs friends. As the cascade of truth began to come in, she reacted with anger and indignation, but the affair didn't end. Instead, she hired a lawyer and filed a divorce petition.
I suggested we pursue a pre-divorce financial mediation process, partly to ensure that things stayed as amicable as possible for the boys sake, and partly to stall for time. In the meantime, we told the boys that the separation was permanent and that we were getting divorced. At that point, I had pretty much lost hope because she had shown absolutely no sign of wavering in her decision. This was in mid February.
Now, I don't know if it just took time for the exposure to sink in, or if the infatuation period naturally faded out, but after the last of our mediation sessions (2 weeks ago), she apologized for hurting me and admitted that the way she'd chosen to end our marriage was thoughtlessly hurtful to me and to the boys.
This past Saturday, she claims to have permanently ended the affair, and yesterday she asked me to move back in. I told her I couldn't do that until I was sure that she'd take extraordinary precautions to prevent further interaction with the OP and commit to a marital recovery plan. She balked a little, but expressed a willingness to try, for the boys' sake.
This is the result I've been working toward for almost 5 months now, but I am terrified. I want to give our marriage another chance, but I don't trust her and don't want to give the boys emotional whiplash if we try and fail.
Any advice or encouagement would be appreciated.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
Move back home. If you want your wife to start meeting your needs and you meeting hers, it's best to live under one roof.
Have you purchased SAA? (Dr Harley's book Surviving An Affair)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23 |
Yes. I bought and read (most of) SAA. It's time to revisit the back half of the book.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23 |
Do you think my concerns about the boys being confused just nervous jitters?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
I would move back in. But do so with a plan in hand. Because having no plan is a plan to fail. You might even want to consider going through the Marriage Builders program. There is a very narrow path back to recovery but you can end up with a great marriage if you follow this plan. Did she end her affair and end all contact with the OM? Would she be willing to send him a no contact letter? Those are just some of the first steps. And will she commit to going through the MB program with the goal of restoring romantic love to your marriage? If she will do those things, then you have a chance. The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail. The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy. This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted. An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them. After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance. <snip unrelated> Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Do you think my concerns about the boys being confused just nervous jitters? I would be more concerned about their family falling apart. I think you really have a chance to save their family and I would go for it! There are no guarantees in life, but they need to see you really try to save their family. How old are they? Do they know about the affair? And I want to APPLAUD you for your awesome exposure. You effectively killed the affair and that will pay off whether or not you save your marriage.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Who is this scumbag OM? Is he married?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23 |
The boys are 9 and 6. My oldest has strong suspicions, but I haven't told them directly yet.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
Do you think my concerns about the boys being confused just nervous jitters? I would be more concerned about their family falling apart. I think you really have a chance to save their family and I would go for it! There are no guarantees in life, but they need to see you really try to save their family. Ditto this. Your family is worth your very best effort. You can do this. But. like Mel says, you need a Plan, a roadmap filled with directions.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23 |
Who is this scumbag OM? Is he married? A couple years ago we joined an organic local farm co-op. Last year we hosted the drop site for the produce. It was the farmer. Talking to my wife in our driveway once a week and exchanging FB comments. He's 20 years older and single.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 594
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 594 |
Definitely move back.
I'll tell you, I am not the longest of timers on this board, but have been around a while. I follow BH's threads a little more closely. You have experienced what I have seen very few BH's (myself included) experience. That is a chance to recover with a WW that is somewhat on board at the beginning for whatever reason.
Now is the time to buck up, get ready for some hard work, become a MB expert and lead this thing back to a place even better than before.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 594
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 594 |
Don't know who all would be on you exposure list, but think of it this way:
If you were in another man's shoes, wouldn't you want to know what Old McDonald was capable of.
Also, you want to make sure he stays away from your cabbage patch.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
The boys are 9 and 6. My oldest has strong suspicions, but I haven't told them directly yet. I would certainly tell your kids about the affair. What will cause enormous confusion is they are left to guess the reasons for the affair. Giving kids false explanations for the tension in your marriage is very upsetting to kids. Your kids have probably been introduced to this rat and are sitting there going HUH? Talk about moral confusion! Dr. Harley on telling the children: The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults. Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.
When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery. The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight. 2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)
Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse). My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.
The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.
The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).
Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.
It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23 |
Several potential customers and business partners got pulled into the exposure net. A couple of us switched to another farm run by a married couple.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23 |
Your kids have probably been introduced to this rat and are sitting there going HUH? Talk about moral confusion! You are right of course. They've toured the farm and she even had him over to dinner once. They are out of town this weekend for spring break. Should I tell them before moving back in, or after? Should I discuss it with WW, give her a chance to confess first? I worry that outing her to the boys, after I move back in, could sabotage this shaky second chance. I know lies are worse, but how to do it gracefully?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23
Junior Member
|
|
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23 |
Speaking of out of town, she's invited me to join them at the hotel on Saturday night and Sunday.
One of my love busters, was that I was too emotionally needy. I'm excited to get back to work on fixing our marriage and rekindling romantic love, but I worry about appearing weak or over-eager...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
One of my love busters, was that I was too emotionally needy. Exactly how did this neediness play out? What would you do? In order to offer suggestions, we need to understand exactly what this love buster looked like. This one is tricky, because you are supposed to be clear about what your needs are. So, "being needy" is very murky waters around here. Help us help you. WELCOME TO MARRIAGE BUILDERS
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
Dr Harley's list of LOVE BUSTERS Selfish Demands
Disrespectful Judgments
Angry Outbursts
Annoying Habits
Independent Behavior
Dishonesty Having needs is not on this list. Edit to add:I suspect that you are referring to some sort of "annoying habit". Let us know for sure.
Last edited by Pepperband; 03/15/13 03:50 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
Your kids have probably been introduced to this rat and are sitting there going HUH? Talk about moral confusion! You are right of course. They've toured the farm and she even had him over to dinner once. They are out of town this weekend for spring break. Should I tell them before moving back in, or after? Should I discuss it with WW, give her a chance to confess first? I worry that outing her to the boys, after I move back in, could sabotage this shaky second chance. I know lies are worse, but how to do it gracefully? I think I would get moved back in first. I wouldn't tell her first, that is just going to cause a fight. It is best for YOU to tell them alone so they get all the facts. They can then address it with their mother later and ask questions. As a kid who was introduced to my father's OW, I can tell you it is the most confusing thing in the world. I do remember as a very young girl thinking something was very wrong but since no adult would validate that instinct, I concluded I must be stupid. I learned to suppress my instincts about right and wrong since they were so OFF.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985 Likes: 1 |
One of my love busters, was that I was too emotionally needy. I'm excited to get back to work on fixing our marriage and rekindling romantic love, but I worry about appearing weak or over-eager... Spouses are usually emotionally "needy" when they are being deprived. If a spouses needs are being met effectively, they don't FEEL needy. Did she do an effective job of meeting your needs?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
|
|
|
Moderated by Ariel, BerlinMB, Denali, Fordude, IrishGreen, MBeliever, MBsurvivor, MBSync, McLovin, Mizar, PhoenixMB, Toujours
|
0 members (),
239
guests, and
3
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums67
Topics133,659
Posts2,323,615
Members72,372
| |
Most Online9,682
May 13th, 2026
|
|
|
|
