Brief back story: 13yrs married but last 4-5 fairly loveless. In retrospect I wasn't meeting her needs; but also mine have not been met for many more years. However I just accepted life as it was initially. In last few years though a cycle of neglect and resentment existed in our marriage. I saw no way out, as our children needed us, plus we were stretched financially.

I noticed things going wrong last October, then ILYBINILWY speech November and she admitted an EA (was in fact a PA - got trickle truth for next 2 months)

Initially I fell apart - did not know what to do. Scoured internet / books for help and eventually decided early December just to work on improving myself - get rid of love busters (wasn't into this site at the time, but I just looked at all things I did wrong, related to my stressy behaviours and stopped as much as I could). Also started working on my physical health, and tried to build mental strength. Became more confident and asked her mid December to stop seeing him. After a few days she said she had (but hadn't). He is a co-worker already getting divorced. Don't know him but sounds very 'needy'. I also saw us through a family crisis - my aim being to be her 'rock' - it definitely seemed to help but the affair continued. She was being so blatant about it that end January I said it had to stop or our marriage was over.

She agreed to go no contact - but in her head this was only ever temporary. After 6 weeks we had some time off and talked long and hard. The barriers started coming down and she agreed to end her affair. Then changed her mind 3 times (went to see him, couldn't do it, came back said she still wanted me etc etc) - this was the most painful experience I have ever had. She claims to love me and to be my friend.

Since then he thinks they are 'on'. She cuddles, kisses, talks a lot with me. We are close (but not intimate), we text regularly during the day, we take time off to go for walks just together and I am trying to meet her needs. I am sure he doesn't realise we are still close.

However she still insists on her 'rights' to see him. Says me looking at a text he sent was an 'invasion of privacy' - I suppose it was - but her hiding her texts is clearly (in my view) cheating.

A few nights ago we had a conversation - pretty calm until she got angry at the end - where I just wanted to lay out what I thought we were trying to achieve and some definitions:- did she want a separation, where we do our own thing, a marriage where we don't see others and continue to try and rebuild, or cheating to continue. She seemed to think that was an unfair definition - i.e. her seeing the OM isn't cheating; but clearly would not want me seeing anyone else, or separating allowing her to do her own thing. I found a counsellor who I really rate, and suggested couple counselling. She went to meet him, decided she wanted him for IC - I went along with this as I was really keen for her to get into some kind of conversation with someone else, so I'm still looking for one.

Over the last few weeks I really have put my needs aside, and tried to meet hers. There hasn't been any real criticism, and no demands since the initial no contact discussion now 8 weeks ago. But I am starting to wonder if it is all worth it. If I look back our marriage went wrong when I stopped meeting her needs (a few years), but in all honesty I don't think mine have ever been met enough to make me really happy. The only thing really keeping me here is 3 children and the memory of the devastation to my life when my parents split.

Hi AZQR,

Welcome to the best place to get the help you need (IMO). I'm not qualified to answer your questions completely, but soon the veterans of this forum will read your post and provide you with some excellent advice. In the meantime, Dr Harley has an answer to the question of snooping found here: Snooping: Is it wrong?

As a former wayward husband (FWH) I can see a lot of "wayward speak" coming from your wife.

"However she still insists on her 'rights' to see him. Says me looking at a text he sent was an 'invasion of privacy' - I suppose it was - but her hiding her texts is clearly (in my view) cheating."

Be patient and be sure to read up on the basic concepts of Marriage Builders.

Welcome to MB, AZ. I am sorry to hear of these events in your marriage.

Oh dear: what have you really done to stop this affair? It sounds as if you have asked her nicely to stop, but you haven't put your foot down. This is tantamount to allowing her to have sex with another man while married to you.

You must start by reading the links included in the Start Here thread pinned to the top of this forum.

To whom have you exposed this affair? Do your children know that their mother is in a sexual relationship with another man? They should know because they are undoubtedly aware of the tension between you, and they should not be left to wonder whether they are the cause of it. Your wife will feel ashamed when she realises that her children know that she is putting their future at risk of a divorce and family breakdown, and that she is having sex outside her marriage, and this my well be the pressure that she needs to to stop her behaviour.

Have you told her parents and siblings? They should be enlisted to support you and your marriage, and to try and talk sense into your wife. Your pastor, if you have one, should be informed, for more support. Ask all these people to talk to your wife - the point is not for them to keep this confidential but to put pressure on her to stop. Her affair will will not seem half so thrilling and exciting when she knows that people are looking at her with disgust - and she will be moved when she realises that they care for her and your children. They will help her see the tragic future after a divorce a lot more clearly than she can see it now, by herself.

You have been told that OM is divorcing, but you must still tell his (supposedly estranged) wife. Many a betrayed spouse on these boards heard with amazement that they were getting divorced. The wayward spouse told the other person this - but they forgot to copy their own betrayed spouse in on the memo. The wife in this situation might astonished to hear that she is divorcing and might have a thing or two to say to her weasel husband about that. Also she has the right to know, and she will be your greatest spy if you both decide to work on your marriages after this.

You need to spy on your wife, electronically. Spying means not letting her know in the slightest that you are doing this. You need to hide a Voice Activated Recorder where you think she makes her phone calls - in the car or home-office - and sneak a keylogger onto her PC or laptop, and onto her smartphone. See our forum Operation Investigate for more idea. I know that you know that the affair is ongoing, but you will want to spy for some time to know that it really ends when she says it does. Invest in spyware now, to protect yourself from finding out that she has filed for divorce and plans to move OM into your home, where he can (in her fantasy world) become the new father to your kids.

While you are fighting for your marriage like this you do not act angrily or unpleasantly towards your wife. Inside your head you need to be in fighting mode, but outside, to her, you need to be showing love and determination to end this nightmare and build a better future. You are in Plan A: this is described in one of the links I mentioned.

Okay: read those links and come back and answer my questions about whom you have told.

AZQR,

You have allowed your wife to do A LOT of cake eating. You have asked her to stop the affair but have offered no real reason to actually do it.

I know to a normal mind it sounds crazy but to a wayward foggy mind you are allowing her to have the best of both worlds, you and him at the same time. You have threatened separation but never enforced it.

First things first as mentioned above you need to expose this affair far and wide. Expose to family, friends, workplace(especially the workplace), soon to be ex-wife(if that is even true), expose on FB (both your wife's and the OMs. There are guidelines on this site to help you with this.

Tell your children. Leaving them in the dark is only confusing and frustrating to them because they know that something is wrong. In addition,they need to be told and told that it is not their fault. Leaving them in the dark does more damage than explaining to them (age appropriately) what is going on.

Your wife needs to leave her job ASAP!!! No matter what you do or say, the affair will NEVER end as long as they are working together. Affairs are like drugs. The OM is her drug right now and as long as she is exposed to him every day, she will keep using.

It is good that you have stopped LBing your wife but this is only one of many steps that must be made to save your marriage. The three above are a MUST to get started and are the first steps to a true recovery.

Soak up this site. Read as much as you can about exposure, affairs, telling your children. I also suggest getting the book SAA (Surviving An Affair). Stop allowing your wife to live in a fantasy world. You mentioned your marriage not being very good for the past five years. Following MB will not only recover your marriage but it will make it better than it was before.

That however CAN NOT happen until you get ride of the POSOM!!!!!!

This was such a long post with such a lot of detail that I missed the fact that this is a co-worker. Thank goodness that fifteenyears came along.

She's absolutely right. The workplace exposure is vitally important, and following it, your wife cannot work there any more. As part of the conditions to be met in order for the two of you to enter the recovery phase, she must agree to leave the job.

Start his process by exposing at the workplace. There is information about how to do this, and to whom, in the links I provided.

Follow what the vets say here....W MUST leave the job.

You must expose the affair if it is in the workplace.

I putzed around a few months too long with this -- but when I did expose, POSOM was fired, I separated that scumball from my W, and the affair ended.

All your 'plan A' work is for naught if your W sees this POS every day.

Expose and kill the affair. It works!

"Getting divorced" is wayward speak for MARRIED. The man is MARRIED. And his wife probably does not know that her husband is having an affair.

Please go read the exposure thread in my signature and start planning a nuclear exposure if you want to save this marriage.

Thanks everyone for quick responses. I realise I have left out some important stuff - which will post now: however I am really worried that I am losing the will to fight anymore for this - and I think I need help with that too.

Exposure: my family long gone, hers know, all our close friends know, my oldest son knows, everyone at work (of relevance) knows. I think pretty much everyone who could help does know.

Work: at their work all the relevant people know. Had no effect on him in fact W saved him when his job on the line. Got to his CEO, who talked to mine; I got called in and questioned whether (as my marriage in trouble) I was up to the job - essentially threatened with demotion. I held my ground and am OK for now. If she left work there is little else and there would be significant impact on our children.

Ultimatum: when it all came to light fully in Jan I said she must have no contact or we were finished. What followed was 48hrs of fight back from her; I stood firm and she eventually agreed; followed by 5 days of very erratic behaviour from her --was all I could do to hold my family / work together. Since then she had no contact (I have pretty good evidence) other than a few sightings at work (they don't have to interact most days) until 2 weeks ago when she said she was going to end it for good. It was then she started changing and reverting to old ways (but they were just communicating by text). We talked long and hard and each time I threatened separation she said she would finish it; but then didn't. I need time to prepare a Plan B if needed (at least a few weeks)

Monitoring:- I'm not in U.S. I would have to be very careful from a legal point of view. Also in view of the nature of both our jobs this could mean real problems if I got caught. So haven't for now.

OMW:- has filed for divorce (initially cited OM and W, but now withdrawn). Not sure what else I have to gain here.

Thanks everyone

Also I have read a lot here; and also the book 'Surviving and Affair'

What did you tell her family and will they HELP YOU? Who has told WHOM WHAT? When we speak of exposure, we mean YOU giving them the facts and asking them for help. Please read my exposure thread.


Have you officially informed human resources in the manner outlined in my thread?


She obviously can't end it if she goes to work to see him every day. The ultimatum has to be to leave the job.


This would be your most beneficial exposure. I would start right here and then move onto exposure at work, her family, and the OM's family. Does the OM have a facebook page?

The OMW can be your greatest ally in the killing of this affair. I would try to enlist her.

If she STAYS THERE it would be a significant impact on your children because you will end up divorced. Divorce is the greatest tragedy in a child's life.

What have your children been told about the OM and their mother's affair?

AZQR, i know this is exhausting, which is why you're teetering on whether or not you want to save the M. with 3 children, saving the M is your best option. you and your WW can be happy again - even happier than what you were before, which is good news for you! taking action to fight the a and save your M will help give you the will to keep going. lack of action = apathy. taking the offensive = motivation. "offensive" is the key word here.

as mel said, the first thing you need to do is expose properly - tell your side of the story and ASK for help with the M. if others simply "know," you have no idea what they've been told, though it's probably something along the lines of "AZQR and i have been unhappy for a long time. i'm so lucky to have finally met POSOM, so i'm going to divorce AZQR." in our wayward world, this may be considerd ( ) acceptable. however, "WW began an affair with POSOM through the workplace. i have been urging her to end the affair so we can rebuild our M and provide a stable home for our children." combined with your honest plea for help, can move mountains!

work: again, "knowing" and getting the facts - 2 separate things. you need to check out the workplace exposure templates. workplace affairs often take place on company time, costing the company money. bosses do not like this at all! use whatever help you can get. (templates in the exposure thread i linked above.)

monitoring: i do not wish to tell you to do something that would get you arrested. however - are you really going to stand aside and let POSOM walk away with your wife because you were afraid? it may be just me, but it didn't bother me at all that changing the locks is illegal in the (outside the USA) country where i live. my attitude was "so sue me." this doesn't happen, because then all the ugly, dirty laundry gets a public airing and the WS looks like [censored].

ultimatum: don't give these. you need to get into plan a.

divorce: just because the OMW filed for divorce doesn't mean a divorce is coming. it's part of our advice here all the time: the first to file has the upper hand, and it also puts court orders into place for living arrangements and child custody/support. as a BH, you will be advised to remain in your home and file for sole custody of your children. is your country an at-fault one for divorce? (ps: that doesn't mean you're going to get a divorce. divorces can be dragged out and even terminated when you reconcile.) plus - you want to use the eyes and ears of OMW. working together, you could possibly salvage both Ms.

i'm going to let the other BHs take over now and help guide you. i just wanted to give you more info over the weekend, when things can be slow around here.

He will not help you. Do not count on this counsellor to save your marriage. The problem with your marriage is that there is a third party. Her counselling with this person will not save your marriage.

Thanks again.

I understand the need to change the nature of exposure - BUT - why is that not a 'love buster' - it will make her very angry - is that still compatible with Plan A? Do I explain to her when she challenges me (and it will be an angry challenge) I am doing it to save our marriage, or do I keep quiet?

Re work - again I understand, but everyone up to HR director / CEO knows, and it nearly went v badly for me. I need to look hard at a plan

I also would like help with plan A - as I understand it I should continue to meet her most important emotional needs? So we have been through her needs, and she is getting lots of my time for conversation. Affection is more than in our marriage for a long time with daytime and night time cuddling/ physical proximity, non-passionate kissing etc. She seems to be much happier with this now. I am being hugely honest and open. And as ever I commit to domestic/financial support. So I am meeting (at least much better than before) her top 5. Do I just continue this (and suffer the pain)? What more can I do? Do I continue to talk about the affair with her I.e. negotiate stopping as per Plan A on this site - explaining how much pain and suffering it is/ will cause. - I find I can easily do this w/o LBs if I initiate conversation in a planned way. Do I do this every day? Or less frequently?

Keep in mind that the goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid her anger at all costs. It won't matter if you commit a "lovebuster" if you allow your marriage to end because you did nothing to stop the affair. See, your marriage can survive her temporary anger over exposure. It CANNOT survive an affair. So take your pick. Do you want to save your marriage? If so, your best chance lies in exposure.

And yes, she will be angry. You just tell her you are sure sorry she is angry but you felt it was important to spread the good news. Let her know you have no reason to hide her affair.


They know WHAT exactly? Have they been officially informed of the facts and asked to take action? You are the victim of an affair. If your directors are bullying you because you are the victim of an affair, then they are subjecting you to a hostile work environment. Is that legal in your state/country?


Yes you do, but more importantly, you must fight the affair if you want it to be of any effect. Plan A is both a carrot and a stick. Without a serious effort at killing the affair, there really isn't much hope.

MelodyLane - this is all very helpful. Thanks. I know I need to be strong about exposure, and will try again. I understand this is the 'stick'. I don't want to post too much about work situation, especially in terms of losing anonymity. Please believe me though when I say protection against bullying is non-existent; and I am certain no specific action would ever be taken at their workplace for this.

Two more specifics re Plan A - if she allows me to meet her needs, do i continue whatever - we are spending a large amount of time together (her and OM get very little time); it is good when we are together; she tells me she loves me constantly, we text a lot, are affectionate in public etc. Obviously that can increase my pain; but do I run with it (as the carrot) or do I withdraw at all now. My feeling is that you are suggesting continue to do all this; but apply maximum pressure through work/family/friends at the same time?

And secondly how frequently do I bring up the subject of the affair - to remind her of the pain? I have mastered doing this in a controlled way now - if this has any effect I can do it daily and more....?

That is fine. Many workplaces don't, but they will be watching them to make sure they are not using company resources to conduct their affair. It causes great conflict in the affair.

Did you read my exposure thread yet?


Yes, I am suggesting that you do your best to meet her needs and avoid lovebusters. Your pressure will come from demanding that she leave that job and end her affair.


Just use your judgement on this. You want to be an attractive alternative but you also don't want to appear complacent.