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So where to begin... I've been doing a lot of reading on this site over the past few days, but need guidance (and support I guess) to move on.
At end of November, H told me that he was unhappy; he felt numb, angry and just didn't want to engage with anyone or anything. He totally withdrew. We had lost our business during the recession and although he had successfully found a new job, which meant a whole family relocation, he never really discussed or dealt with it. Eventually after about 6 weeks, I finally managed to persuade him to seek help with doctor who suggested he might have mild depression and recommended referring to counselling. Two days later, he came home and said he wanted my help to sort things out. It was almost like something had kickstarted in him and although he was angry and agitated and didn't know how to deal with things, he never meant to push me away and it was me he wanted. It took me a while to come to terms with this, and I did question him a lot about it. I kept encouraging him to take up doctor's offer of counselling. Anyway, on my birthday, he took me out, and it came up about how he had been feeling previously. He said he didn't want to keep going over it, but I was the one that he wanted, and he just didn't explain himself very well, but it was me he loved. My present was for us to have a week's holiday away. Valentine's Day - made me a card, thanked me for all my support and told me how much he loved me.
Forward fast two weeks, and I had a niggling feeling something wasn't right. After confrontation, he told me he loved me but wasn't in love with me. The spark had gone and he wanted to finish it. I was angry and upset. I asked him to consider working on it. he refused point blank. He said he wasn't depressed it was just everyone labelling him as depressed so I haven't pressed this point further. He said he wanted space and was going to stay at his sisters, which he did. He came back a few days later to see our daughters (11 and 10). He stayed that night but then went back to his sister's for a few more days.
Last Tuesday he called me as he said he was agitated - he'd been hassling me daily as to what i was going to do, where i was going to live with the girls, etc. I said I was in no state to make decisions and I couldn't understand the rush. Eventually, after days of denial, he said there was someone at work. She is single with a daughter of 6. I know of her, but not even a surname. I calmly accepted what he said, because i was stunned at the way he has behaved, his lack of honesty and cowardice.
Anyway, last weekend I went away to see a friend, and i found out they went on a date together. According to him, nothing physical has happened yet, although it's hard to know what to believe. Anyway, after a big fight yesterday over him not calling our daughters when he said he would, I sent a heartfelt apology to him saying that we hadn't been together 18 years to treat each other and speak to each other like this. He apologised also and said he was angry and bitter; he doesn't want us to fight. He wants us still to talk and be friends. I advised him that he needed to tell his boss about his relationship with OW. He said he would. as yet i don't know if that has happened. However, he has rung twice this morning to say what time he is coming round tonight, asked what we should have for dinner. I am worried he thinks that I am accepting everything is done and allowing him to act as he chooses. He has just rung again sounding off about an issue he has with the banks to do with the business. I just listened, but as soon as a call came in on his mobile, he had to go. Should I stop answering his calls or is this part of PLan A, being there for him to meet his needs etc?
I am sorry if this is garbled, it's all just flooding out of my head at the moment. I am so confused. I think I want him back as I do love him (not as he is now!), but he can be a wonderful husband and father (we've been married 15 years now),, but this is not the person I am dealing with at the moment.
Any comments will be gratefully received as I think I am going slightly bonkers sitting here on my own!!
So where to begin... I've been doing a lot of reading on this site over the past few days, but need guidance (and support I guess) to move on.
At end of November, H told me that he was unhappy; he felt numb, angry and just didn't want to engage with anyone or anything. He totally withdrew. We had lost our business during the recession and although he had successfully found a new job, which meant a whole family relocation, he never really discussed or dealt with it. Eventually after about 6 weeks, I finally managed to persuade him to seek help with doctor who suggested he might have mild depression and recommended referring to counselling. Two days later, he came home and said he wanted my help to sort things out. It was almost like something had kickstarted in him and although he was angry and agitated and didn't know how to deal with things, he never meant to push me away and it was me he wanted. It took me a while to come to terms with this, and I did question him a lot about it. I kept encouraging him to take up doctor's offer of counselling. Anyway, on my birthday, he took me out, and it came up about how he had been feeling previously. He said he didn't want to keep going over it, but I was the one that he wanted, and he just didn't explain himself very well, but it was me he loved. My present was for us to have a week's holiday away. Valentine's Day - made me a card, thanked me for all my support and told me how much he loved me.
Forward fast two weeks, and I had a niggling feeling something wasn't right. After confrontation, he told me he loved me but wasn't in love with me. The spark had gone and he wanted to finish it. I was angry and upset. I asked him to consider working on it. he refused point blank. He said he wasn't depressed it was just everyone labelling him as depressed so I haven't pressed this point further. He said he wanted space and was going to stay at his sisters, which he did. He came back a few days later to see our daughters (11 and 10). He stayed that night but then went back to his sister's for a few more days.
Last Tuesday he called me as he said he was agitated - he'd been hassling me daily as to what i was going to do, where i was going to live with the girls, etc. I said I was in no state to make decisions and I couldn't understand the rush. Eventually, after days of denial, he said there was someone at work. She is single with a daughter of 6. I know of her, but not even a surname. I calmly accepted what he said, because i was stunned at the way he has behaved, his lack of honesty and cowardice.
Anyway, last weekend I went away to see a friend, and i found out they went on a date together. According to him, nothing physical has happened yet, although it's hard to know what to believe. Anyway, after a big fight yesterday over him not calling our daughters when he said he would, I sent a heartfelt apology to him saying that we hadn't been together 18 years to treat each other and speak to each other like this. He apologised also and said he was angry and bitter; he doesn't want us to fight. He wants us still to talk and be friends. I advised him that he needed to tell his boss about his relationship with OW. He said he would. as yet i don't know if that has happened. However, he has rung twice this morning to say what time he is coming round tonight, asked what we should have for dinner. I am worried he thinks that I am accepting everything is done and allowing him to act as he chooses. He has just rung again sounding off about an issue he has with the banks to do with the business. I just listened, but as soon as a call came in on his mobile, he had to go. Should I stop answering his calls or is this part of PLan A, being there for him to meet his needs etc?
I am sorry if this is garbled, it's all just flooding out of my head at the moment. I am so confused. I think I want him back as I do love him (not as he is now!), but he can be a wonderful husband and father (we've been married 15 years now),, but this is not the person I am dealing with at the moment.
Any comments will be gratefully received as I think I am going slightly bonkers sitting here on my own!!
Welcome to Marriage Builders. We are are sorry you are here under such sad and confusing circumstances. Do you want to try and save your marriage?
Sorry to tell you, most of what your H is telling you is a load of lies. He is in a full blown physical affair.
What to do first? Stay calm. <~~~ This is very important. You must be disciplined enough to shelve your anger and your emotional outbursts. This is very difficult when you are this hurt and devastated, we know.
You gather evidence. Quietly. Without letting on. There are several ways to do this. The quickest way is to hire a PI. This is costly, but will save you time. Time is not on your side, so I suggest you get the PI if at all possible. Other ways to investigate are discussed in the forum called "Operation Investigate".
Plan A is in order, if you want to try and save your marriage. In my sig line, there is a link to a thread called Carrot/Stick of Plan A. Click on that, and read from the first post down.
In marriage, this destructive predisposition is manifest in a variety of habits that I call Love Busters. But among those destructive habits, there are few as damaging as our tendency to be unfaithful. Yet, I estimate that over 60% of all marriages experience infidelity, one of the most painful experiences a betrayed spouse can have in life.
So snooping is reasonable, especially when there has been evidence of a budding romantic relationship outside of marriage. If Joyce were to check up on me without my knowing about it, it would probably be based on certain facts that would have aroused her curiosity. But knowing now what I know about the devastating effects of unfaithfulness, I'd encourage, not discourage, her -- unless I was really up to something I didn't want her to know about.
What are some of the red flags that would lead a spouse to snoop? The biggest and brightest of them all is for you to claim a right to privacy. If you were to refuse to give your spouse your passwords to your computer, social networks, or cell phone records, or to what you do with your time away from each other, that would trigger almost anyone's curiosity. What's my spouse trying to hide?
There are other red flags. One of them is having a close friend of the opposite sex because that's how most affairs develop. An opposite-sex friend at work, someone you are with recreationally, or someone you simply enjoy talking to about almost anything is the person to whom you are most likely to become emotionally attached. Do you have any close friends of the opposite sex outside of your marriage?
Another red flag is being separated overnight -- or for days, weeks, or months. The longer you are separated from each other, the more likely one of you will have an affair. Jobs that require spouses to be separated are much more highly associated with infidelity than jobs that allow spouses to sleep together overnight.
Other red flags include unexplained absences, where it's difficult to know where a spouse was for a period of time, excessive consumption of alcohol, and a marriage that has lost its spark. These are but a few of the conditions that inspire snooping.
I do want to save my marriage, but I also don't want to be taken for a fool, which clearly I have been.
I guess I am struggling to know how to be with him? I have been exceptionally calm ever since this happened, never raised my voice, but just asked questions. He is in this bubble that nothing seems to burst; he thinks it will be okay to introduce the girls to OW within the next three months. Why is he ringing and being chatty? I am concerned he thinks that I am just accepting what is happening and he's fine to move on. He's going away on a cycling holiday on Sat (she isn't going, i know for a fact as it's part of a training holiday with a cycle club). Do I use this time to expose him? Tonight, do I cook him dinner even? So many questions....
I do want to save my marriage, but I also don't want to be taken for a fool, which clearly I have been.
He's the fool. He's playing with fire. You are NOT A FOOL.
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I guess I am struggling to know how to be with him? I have been exceptionally calm ever since this happened, never raised my voice, but just asked questions.
Plan A t(he carrot).
Once you read about Plan A (the stick) you can begin to work that as well. You need evidence. Once you have evidence, you expose, suddenly and without warning to EVERYONE. Yes, especially to your kids (age appropriate).
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He is in this bubble that nothing seems to burst; he thinks it will be okay to introduce the girls to OW within the next three months.
Yes, he's in full blown affair-fantasy-land-idiothood.
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Why is he ringing and being chatty?
He thinks all 3 of you are going to be best of friends and one big 'happy family'. Idiot!
Plan A is NOT 'talk talk talk' ... It is war. War against the idiot, not your normal husband.
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I am concerned he thinks that I am just accepting what is happening and he's fine to move on.
Don't worry about that right now. Let him think what he thinks while you gather evidence and prepare for nuclear exposure.
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He's going away on a cycling holiday on Sat (she isn't going, i know for a fact as it's part of a training holiday with a cycle club). Do I use this time to expose him? Tonight, do I cook him dinner even? So many questions....
You also should arm yourself with information regarding your legal rights/expectations if things don't immediately go as planned. These paradigms vary with jurisdiction, so you may need to discuss this item with a lawyer ($$$) or a Social Services agency.
In any event, if WH continues on his path, you'll be in an informed state to explain to him what his little fantasy is going to entail.
He stayed that night but then went back to his sister's for a few more days.
He was with OW. If you get a chance, put a GPS on the vehicle he drives. Monitor all the finances. MOVE the money from any joint account to a new account. Cancel all joint credit cards. Get a bank safety deposit box. Put all important documents and CASH into it. If any of you have a passport, put them in there too.
Do a forensic search of phone records.
Look at the location of all cash withdrawals from ATMs.
You simply tell him that you are fighting for your marriage and will do whatever it takes to repair/restore it and then offer him a cookie.
Do not respond to his anger with your own. keep calm and change the subject. If he continues with his anger/abuse, then remove yourself from the situation until he calms down.
Last edited by Wow777; 03/20/1310:23 AM.
Me - BH 49 years old Her - WW 43 years old Married 20 years D Day Jan 7, 2013 3 kids - DS19, DS17, DS12
Dead on, Wow. Also by a voice activated recorder from radio shack. Use cash so it won't be traced and keep it on you. If he does get violent you will have means for a TRO and the recording for proof.
So once the exposure is done, surely his anger with me is going to be considerable? How have other people dealt with this?
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The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A
The carrot of Plan A
Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The stick of Plan A
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.
And there is more ....
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Plan A is NOT a decision you and your adulterous spouse make together !!!
Plan A is a tool for the betrayed spouse to implement in order to try and stop the affair ~and~ attract the adulterous spouse BACK to the marriage
do NOT discuss this tool with the adulterous spouse
Plan A is YOUR weapon against infidelity !!! The adulterous spouse is ~for~ infidelity, not against it .... be careful NOT to reveal your secret weapon of Plan A !!!
I think it is impossible to completely stop ALL ~LB~ behaviors during the initial SHOCK of discovering your spouse is/was unfaithful
having said that
if the affair continues
once you start Plan A ... YOU must be in control of your emotional outbursts
ASK the board for HELP to do this
and some more ....
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Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
time to take your OWN inventory
compile a list of things you historically contribute to the marriage that make the marriage work .... and do MORE of this
don't make announcements about what you are going to do ... just take action
DEMONSTRATE what an awesome spouse/contrubutor to the marriage YOU are
.... continuing Plan A ....
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Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
re-visit the emotional needs questionairre on this site
if your spouse is ACTIVELY continuing their affair after discovery ... try to get the information about his/her emotional needs indirectly
take the questionairre answering ~as if~ you were your adulterous spouse
then take the top 3 needs and get a plan together to fill their most important needs ~when possible~
caution is required if your spouse scores high on sexual fulfillment as their emotional need ... if your spouse is sleeping with someone else YOU need to enforce the use of condom protection ... and even that is not foolproof protection you won't be exposed to a disease
GET TESTED for STDs every so often if you are having sex with a still cheating spouse
MOST people in an affair do NOT use protection <~~~ is's a fact you must face !
and ....
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Offering forgiveness and understanding.
By this I mean .... suggesting to the confused foggy affair-addicted spouse that there is HOPE for the marriage even though what they are doing is awful ... there is a map leading to home
Often their thinking is thus: "It's too late now. I've done too much damage ... my spouse could never forgive me, so I might as well continue with the affair."
You, the sane spouse, need to squash that belief that they can never be forgiven for what they have done. You do not need to forgive them right away, but offer them the hope of a future where all is forgiven.
You can word it something like this:
All of us do things we regret. When I think of some of my past mistakes, I am extremely grateful for having been forgiven by those I've hurt. I want to be in the position to offer you that same grace. I have been forgiven, so I understand what it feels like to be in a position where you hope forgiveness is possible. It is possible.
continuing ...
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Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Exposure is your most effective tool to end the affair !
It is important to SNOOP ~before~ exposure.
There are ways to snoop in order to gather evidence. If you have questions about snooping tactics ... go to the general Questions infidelity forum and begin a thread titled something like: ~~~> I need to snoop. Teach me everything you know!
OK ... once you've snooped and you know there is an affair ... and your spouse refuses to end the affair relationship ... you will hear:
"It's only a friendship." "You are too controling." "I love you but I am not in love with you." "You are too suspicious." "You are crazy." "Our marriage never worked." "I've never been happy." "Our marriage was a mistake from the start."
TIME for exposure.
WAT has a great exposure thread ... read it
Exposure is NOT to the 2 infidels ... they already know they are in an affair!
You expose to the other betrayed spouse first.
You expose to your family as well as your spouse's family (if appropriate) You expose to work, or neighbors, or others .... ASK the board for help regarding who to expose to
HOW you expose is important
wording something like:
I am saddened to tell you my sweetie is having an affair. It's been going on for (length of time).He/she refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my sweetie, please do what you can to get him/her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.
don't forget these words
swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
you NEVER tell your adulterous spouse you are going to expose
you just do it
more ....
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Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Exposure makes the infidel furious
stay calm breathe
no one can stay furious forever ... being furious is exhausting ... consumes a lot of energy ... let the furious infidel fume and exhaust his/her self
YOU stay cool
You will hear:
"That's it. We are never going to stay married after what YOU did." "I am moving out now, thanks to you." "You are getting OP in trouble at home." "Now our kids will have a broken home thanks to you."
blah blah blah
You respond to all the raging comments: I am still holding out hope for our marriage.
You stay calm
You don't argue
You don't explain
You do not preach
You do not educate
~and~ you do NOT apologize for standing up for truth and marriage and keeping your family intact
YOU calmly re-state your belief that there is hope for the marriage ....
if things get out of hand ... excuse yourself and go for a walk or a drive ...
remember ... exposure makes the already foggy spouse act insane ... but it is temporary
.....
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Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Plan A is often misunderstood as "acting nice"
excuse me acting "nice' in the face of an affair makes me want to puke
Plan A is taking control of one's self ...it is NOT "acting nice" ~as if~ there was no infidelity eating away at your family .... infidelity hurts like battery acid poured on your skin
am I right?
heII yes I am right
so you scared and panicky betrayed ~~~> SPEAK UP
tell the truth
"This affair hurts me. This affair is going to destroy our family. Let's get help."
If your spouse does something really thoughtless ... SPEAK UP.
"What you just said (did) hurts me terribly."
"I feel wounded by your affair."
"My heart aches for the love we used to share."
But be careful ... don't get needy or whiney or weepy ... those are love-busters
it's a fine line between telling the truth about what hurts ... and staying away from LB behaviors
ASK for help from the board
if you are unsure if what you are doing is correct... examine how much self control you have at any given moment ... and if you are feeling in control of yourself ... you are probably right on the money !
if you feel yourself losing control ... step away and re-group
>>>>>>
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Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
You never were a perfect spouse. You never will be.
You are part of the equation of your marriage environment .. but you have no power to cause your spouse to choose an affair
The freshly wounded often look at themselves and blame themselves for their spouse's choice to go outside the marriage....
stop
Sure, this is an opportunity to take your own inventory ... but NEVER accept blame for your spouse's choice to have an affair
The issue of not meeting the emotional needs of the adulterous spouse ~before~ the affair began is NOT a reason to choose infdelity
not ever
You are responsible for your choices, not for the choices of your spouse
relax breathe
~~~~~~
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Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
If we experience no consequences when we mess up ... there is very little motivation for us to change our wrong behaviors that have become a habit
do the infidel a favor
do not stand inbetween them and their consequences
show respect for the infidel by allowing them to feel whatever their behaviors have earned them
be it shame embarrasment fear
whatever they have earned
let it be
unpleasant consequences are what motivates changing habitual bad behaviors
let it roll
******
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A very very important part of Plan A !!!
That is some serious self-pampering .... which may include but is not limited to:
>manicures/pedicures
>dates with friends
>hire a sitter so YOU can have fun
>relaxing your usually busy schedule
>say "No, I can't do that now." when you are running out of energy
>pray and ask for spiritual and emotional support from someone wise in your circle of trust
>buy all new sheets
>paint the bedroom
>treat yourself to something sexy to wear
>try a new hairstyle
>get contact lenses or Kewl new glasses
>glam up
>buy concert/theater tickets
>exercise
Self pampering will keep your Taker happy for awhile which IMPROVES your Plan A
She is single with a daughter of 6. I know of her, but not even a surname.
cb do you know this for a fact?
We have a saying here : If their lips are moving they are lying.
I know that sounds cynical. Honestly, stop believing what he says.Believe only what you can personally verify. You have already found out that he is capable of looking you in the eye and lying. You have to be smarter than him.
You have found a safe place. We will not let you look like a fool and can give you the best plan for saving your marriage and getting your old husband back. You need to be calm, cool, and in control no matter what he throws at you.
Cool, calm and in control.
ME: BW HIM: FWH Married 18 yrs DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
THanks everyone. I know she has a daughter of 6 because I have met her once or twice; her ex also works in the same company although he has moved on and is in a relationship with someone else and has another child.
My biggest problem is finding out her name... I think while he is away, I will go and see his boss (who I also know quite well).
I guess I find it weird that all the stuff he needs help with he comes to me for, leaving her free to be the fun one. He rang me to let off steam about something today, I listened, saying very little, but really that should all be for her ears now not mine.
So plan tonight is he is coming to see the girls. I am cooking dinner; will chat about his upcoming holiday, try to get him to interact and just generally be myself as far as possible.
I have lunch with my best friend on Saturday which I am looking forward to so that's part of me time, plus plan to get a hair cut etc. next week before the onslaught of school holidays, so am trying to think of me.
"So plan tonight is he is coming to see the girls. I am cooking dinner; will chat about his upcoming holiday, try to get him to interact and just generally be myself as far as possible."
Don't be yourself, follow Plan A! Read up on it and get your gameface on. Good luck
I know she has a daughter of 6 because I have met her once or twice; her ex also works in the same company although he has moved on and is in a relationship with someone else and has another child.
That is concerning to me because it means that OW is actively trying to find a new husband and father for her child. This type of OW is particularly dangerous because she will feel that she has nothing to lose and everything to gain in stealing your WH for her own selfish reasons.
A strategic nuclear exposure including OW parents and friends is your most powerful weapon. I believe that this affair is much deeper than you suspect and that you can easily get the evidence. People generally don't leave the home just because they are "attracted" to someone else or feeling unhappy. Your WH and OW's plan is to say that they got together AFTER you separated.
Get the evidence. Today.
Don't be afraid of your WH's anger over exposure. Be afraid of what will happen if you do NOT expose.
You can do this cb. Read the exposure link again...get it right.
Last edited by pokerface; 03/20/1311:58 AM.
ME: BW HIM: FWH Married 18 yrs DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
He's going away on a cycling holiday on Sat (she isn't going, i know for a fact as it's part of a training holiday with a cycle club).
Never underestimate a wayward's capacity to lie. This may be true, and there is a 50/50 chance it is false. She may be going along with him.
It is possible that OW will be lurking in the shadows maybe hidden from the cyclist club...but still around. It is even possible that WH will bail on the cyclist club. Were his lips moving when he told you about the cyclist holiday?
ME: BW HIM: FWH Married 18 yrs DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008
He rang me to let off steam about something today, I listened, saying very little, but really that should all be for her ears now not mine.
So to the question, "Even while he's wayward, when in Plan A and a spouse comes to you for support, what do you do?", your answer is, "Give him the cold shoulder!", the MB survey says:
And to the answer, "Provide him with the support he requires, as that is likely the EN most open to your action right then!", the MB survey says:
