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And yes - take your boys any moment you can. Have her drop them off in the morning and pick them up after school from your HOME.
Solidify your HOME as the boys primary residence...

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Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
A couple weeks ago, on the radio program, a BS had also met someone else and it shocked his WW back into wanting to reunite.

The WW was the caller and after some questioning, Dr Harley asked her (paraphrasing) 'so, did your H meeting someone else have influence you wanting the M back?' The caller said yes.

Joyce was upset by the notion of this and Dr Harley said "Well, in this case it worked". He did not condone it but at the same time he did not vehemently denounce it. Joyce did. Dr Harley did not.

Same thing happened to me when I was separated with my FWW. Actually, I met someone and we went out. Looking back, it wasn�t the right thing to do. At the same time, it was refreshing for someone to actually want me after such harsh rejection from my W. When we decided to R, I quickly ended it but I don�t regret it for one minute.

This notion shocked my W back into reality as up until this, she was still in contact with POSOM and we were separated. She was cake eating big time. Once she saw that I might not be there forever waiting on her, her position quickly changed.

It did help my personal self image as it had been shattered by the betrayal. It helped me in some ways let go of the notion that maybe my M was going to end and I was going to be okay.
Are you offering advice in citing this story? If so, what is that advice? Is it that the BS should get involved with someone else, because there is a chance that this will bring around the WS?

Do you think that this is a moral thing to do when still married? Where does that leave your vows (before God?) and your integrity?

Where does that leave your argument to your wife that getting involved with someone else while married to you is wrong?

Do you think that was a moral thing to do to the new person that you hooked up with? How did that woman feel when you dropped her liked a used tissue once your wife showed an interest again? Was she hurt? Did she feel used? Did you care? Do you think that is acceptable because she knew you were married? Did she know you were married?

Can you see a situation where the original BS does not want to give up the new partner, and so now a contrast effect - if not a full-blown affair - is brought into the marriage?

Does this tit for tat mean that your wife now accepts that affairs are now ruled out for both of you...or is the conclusion that the next time one of you is unhappy, an affair is a reasonable solution to the problem - an entitlement, even?

I've not read such dangerous advice on this board in years. I thought MB posters knew better than this.


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It is baffling to me that men feel they have to go out and act like playboys in order to get their confidence back and to teach their WW a lesson.

I think I would have just pushed the Plan B button and retained my own self respect.


ME: BW
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DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

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Originally Posted by pokerface
It is baffling to me that men feel they have to go out and act like playboys in order to get their confidence back and to teach their WW a lesson.

I think I would have just pushed the Plan B button and retained my own self respect.

Acting like a man and acting like a playboy are two separate things completely.

Acting like a man will generate interest from women. Some healthy and some unhealthy. You have to know how to separate the two.

Acting like a scared, needy male is not acting like a man. Its unattractive and unhealthy. It also makes recovery almost impossible. Part of Plan A is being a "man". Sometimes it takes drastic measures for males to regain their "Man". For me it did. Yes I was getting interest. Yes women were noticing me. I didn't do anything unhealthy with that interest. It just changed my perspective.



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Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
Same thing happened to me when I was separated with my FWW. Actually, I met someone and we went out. Looking back, it wasn�t the right thing to do. At the same time, it was refreshing for someone to actually want me after such harsh rejection from my W. When we decided to R, I quickly ended it but I don�t regret it for one minute.

20years,

So your wife now has a super attentive husband following MB and treating her wonderfully....

how would you feel if she said "it was refreshing for someone to actually pay attention to me after being neglected for so long by my husband. When we decided to R, I quickly ended my affair but I don�t regret it for one minute."


Granted your wife was much deeper in the fog than one simple date but there were other more healthy ways for you to get your swag back. You took an ill-advised short cut and wasted some woman's evening, attention, affections and hopes so you could feel better about yourself and help you get your wife back. You taught any children you have that tit-for-tat is okay. That vows and commitments are flexible...situational even. Dating while married is wrong.

How can you not regret that?

I submit your wife & recovery might benefit from you feeling and expressing regret for such?

In addition, this is not MB advice. The "I got my wife back by dating someone and she got jealous" strategy isn't anywhere in Dr. Harley's materials. The couple you heard on the phone sounds like Dr. Harley not rocking the recovery boat after the fact. It wasn't him endorsing the husband's behavior. Dating while married is not a marriage saving technique. The fact you got lucky and it worked out for you in hindsight completely misses the point that you were playing with wayward fire and it could have easily been the death nill of your marriage. There are others ways you [and FlordiaGuy] could have got your self-confidence back. By being esteemable....maybe?


You can polish a turd all you want...it's still a turd.

My marriage is better today in spite of my wife's affair and my neglect...not as a resulting "gift" of the same. There are couples all over the world that have great marriages that don't have to endure what you and I have. I regret so many choices from long ago [some dating back to middle school] that could have got us to this point sans adultery.

Mr. W




Last edited by MrWondering; 03/22/13 01:41 PM.

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I suggest you all consult with Dr Harley on this matter as mentioned from the caller on the radio program. I just quoted what he said and referenced my story. Look up the segment for yourself.

Didn�t say it was right, didn�t say it was wrong. Just stated the facts and told a story.

Weigh in as you will and FG will digest and decide for himself.

Look, when any of us as BS's are in the middle of MASSIVE trauma, as FG is, who thinks STRAIGHT? No one. Not the WS, not the BS. Hence, great decisions are not always made. No one is perfect.

Let�s make a deal. I won�t tell you how to post, and you don�t tell me how to post. I respect your opinions. As they are just that, your opinions.

However, this is a great discussion for FG to consider all sides of the story.

I am much wiser now on MB and M in general. Have become somewhat a student on the subject. At the time, I didn�t know what I didn�t know.

Lash out to me if you will. Your call. Water off a ducks back. I am deep into R and my M is looking great! No regrets. My experience has been a series of events. Some good, some bad. Some good decisions, some bad decisions.

I for one can relate to what FG is experiencing. It is a very difficult situation.


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Originally Posted by pokerface
It is baffling to me that men feel they have to go out and act like playboys in order to get their confidence back and to teach their WW a lesson.

I think I would have just pushed the Plan B button and retained my own self respect.

Like playboy? Really?


Teach their W a lesson? Well can't speak for FG, but that was the furthest thing from my mind at the time.

My heart was BROKEN IN TWO! no, make that 5, 6 pieces. I had been regected for 8 more months after dday. I was very ignorant of MB and what was really going on.

So to attack someone assuming this was mine or FG's mindset is just wrong.

Would I do it again? No I wouldn't. This is because I am much wiser now.



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"I suggest you all consult with Dr Harley on this matter as mentioned from the caller on the radio program. I just quoted what he said and referenced my story. Look up the segment for yourself."

I heard the radio show and Dr Harley DID NOT endorse adultery. He never has. H is dead set against adultery. You are misrepresenting Dr Harleys position.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I have emailed the above posts to Dr Harley so he can set this straight. I don't imagine he ever predicted his words would be used in such a fashion.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I heard the radio show and Dr Harley DID NOT endorse adultery. He never has. H is dead set against adultery. You are misrepresenting Dr Harleys position.

Never said he endorsed A. Of course he doesn't.

I did not misrepresent his position. I stated EXACTLY what he said.

At the time, I was quite shocked by his response. Even after Joyce questioned it several times, he didn't back down.


Did he not? His POINT was that by the BS meeting someone else, it motivated the WW to WANT the M. The WW admitted as much. He was not condoning what the BS did as RIGHT.

He specifically said 'in this case it worked for the BS'. I do not endorse what FG did. At the time when I met someone else, I didn�t see it as an A as we were separated but still married at the time. My position on this has changed as I have learned SO much since that time.

Again, good discussion!

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Originally Posted by Floridaguy
After to show Uncle and I went to the club (where WW and SN always go). My Uncle is an old school Italian gangster and pretty much ran the place. No wait to get in, private table, did not even need to order anything, they just knew what he wanted. The owner and manager sat with us almost the whole night.

Just had a great time. Laughed, drank, danced, and even hooked up with a random on the dance floor. Nothing crazy but she just started kissing my neck and we just started to have at it. Nothing more than kissing. We exchanged numbers. I have not spoken to her since.

This is acting like a playboy and there seems to be a few men who are sympathetic to it and even condoning dating women while trying to recover their marriages at the same time.


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All he did was point out what happened to this caller. It was certainly NOT intended to be construed as advice to a BS. I am utterly baffled why it was even mentioned here on this thraed since it is in complete contradiction to Dr Harleys advice.

Why was it mentioned here?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Dr Harley was repeating what the caller said, he did not say this in a vacuum. And he certainly did not endorse her husbands affair.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by 20YearHistory
I for one can relate to what FG is experiencing. It is a very difficult situation.

I can relate too.

I'm not claiming perfection nor expecting perfection.

I'm not lashing out....just trying to help you "know what you didn't know" at THIS moment in time. You trumpeted the famous wayward slogan "the end justifies the means - I don't regret my behavior because it's all good now". So I took the opportunity to offer you some advice. Take it or leave it. Water off my back.

Meanwhile, I'll post encouraging and hoping for perfection rather than excusing, rationalizing and justifying imperfection.

Betrayed husbands may FEEL better acting like dogs but FEELINGS aren't truth. Floridaguy, for example, is in no way a better person today than he was last Friday before he went carousing about town. He's the same guy...no better. He just THINKS he's better now even though if he divorces his behavior may forever be thrown in his face (and the faces of his children who can then blame him, at least partially, for the destruction of their family). His FEELINGS betray him just as they've betrayed his wife who FEELS she'll be better off leaving him.

A man is not to be lead by his feelings but his convictions and his word. Nobody ever regrets doing the right thing.

It's all good...going to watch Basketball. Go I.U.

Laters.

Mr. W


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

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FG.. that really was some wayward fogbabble earlier doh2

I understand why the change in attitude as your mom and family is no longer on board. Mommy FG I am disappointed you turned on us so soon!

Listen, these vets, a lot of them, have recovered their marriages. I think it's safe to say that this (MB) is your best shot. Your mom and dad have not been divorced, correct? If so, it would be best that they not encourage you to get a divorce. I do not believe divorce is ever the best option.

As for the wayward behaviour. Please stop. It is not attractive to the kind of woman you would want to replace your WW. I really don't know what you were trying to achieve. If you feel the urge to go clubbing again, why not invite your wife to come with.

Please Plan A!


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You folks go on debating what Dr. Harley did/did not say, and how strident was Joyce's protest at the time.

Meanwhile, there is much important work to be done using the admissions that FG has made as data, as opposed to whipping him with it.

FG, try to objectively look at your situation/mindset, and decide what your recent forays (real and cyber) into infidelity are saying about yourself, your opinions of WW and your marriage, and your $LB. Please answer these questions:

A - If WW walked back into your life right now, could/would you accept her back, on a path to eventually regain her prior standing as your life-partner? Yes=1, No=0

B - Can you see a future without her as easily, and as pleasant, as one with her? Yes=0, No=1

C - Are you still willing to suffer great disappointment and humiliating rejection, on the basis of whatever chance you feel you have to entice her back to the marriage. Yes=1, No=0

D - Would the idea of just being done with this marriage, from where you stand today, seem more like relief (=0), or tragedy (=1)?

E - Can you envision satisfying her key ENs, without expectation, as she continues to pursue her affair, and reject your efforts? Yes=1, No=0

Obviously a score of "5" would put you in the limited pantheon of "Plan A Heroes" with GJM, and, increasingly, TD. A "0" would put you in the company of "Plan A Not Likelies" as, well,....NG.

So while chasing other women is NOT recommended, dude, what the impetus to do so can tell YOU may well be valuable. What did you score?

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
All he did was point out what happened to this caller. It was certainly NOT intended to be construed as advice to a BS. I am utterly baffled why it was even mentioned here on this thraed since it is in complete contradiction to Dr Harleys advice.

Why was it mentioned here?


There is a little parable about a man walking down the road and finding dead bodies.


Upon the first he is utterly shocked. Upon the next his is dismayed. The next he is merely bothered, upon the last he reacts more like... "Oh, there is another one."




Upon listening to a mental health professional's reaction to a situation which may shock the lay person, one must consider their "war experience."


Leave it up to this; after guiding thousands of marriages, there probably isn't much new under the sun to Dr. Harley. I would expect silence to be a stand-in for "well, that is to be expected."


Not a lot of judgement of right and wrong is tossed around - what is right or wrong is KNOWN. Adultery is wrong. Dr. Harley doesn't have to remind each and every caller that it is wrong.



The same applied logic from this example; a WW was shocked into reconciliation by (not adultery) the possibility of losing her husband - could have been applied the other way; her affair shocking her husband into wanting to improve the marriage.


Guess what? To be expected.



Never makes it right.



TLDR; FG needs to tell his WW. She may dump him like yesterday's paper. She may think that she won't be able to have her cake and eat it, too - especially if her cake is being served elsewhere.


Condemn? Condemnation will be divorce.

Condone? No. It was wrong. Any further similar action will be progressively more maligned.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Tha is for the call out NG. also my family told me to date girls to make my WW jealous but I have too much integrity to disrespect my vows. I DON'T SEE THE PURPOSE OF THIS DEBATE! FG you were wrong, tell your WW. That's it improve your boundaries around these thirsty, hoes. I get on all day everyday by women I have yet to make out with them. You are either in it or out simple, no semantics. So what's it going to be?

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As far as being emasculated by my wife's affair?

Yes. I was.

So, I detached myself from previous prideful assertions, and I started a discussion about "manliness" here.

Why?

Because I saw other men who were similarly emasculated.


"Nailin' broads" don't make you a man...


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by TranquilDark
Tha is for the call out NG. also my family told me to date girls to make my WW jealous but I have too much integrity to disrespect my vows. I DON'T SEE THE PURPOSE OF THIS DEBATE!

I will explain the purpose of the debate. When a poster wrongly implies that Dr Harley has advocated adultery, it must be addressed. That implication cannot stand. It had be addressed.

If you have an issue with my addressing his point, feel free to notify the MODERATORS. Thank you.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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