IOW." I'm worried about trying to present MB to him, yes, because he doesn't believe in the principles - because of him being poisoned by OW. He's never given it a chance.

I don't know. I just know I need help, and you all are the only ones I can go to for this and not be told to just divorce him and move on....

I can't say those words: "I need you to tell me all that happened with OW." and "I need you to tell me why you decided to write that profile thingy, even if it never got posted."

I did print out some of the questionnaires on LB's and needs, just afraid for whatever reason to give him it.

I'm an enabler. I realized this the other morning. I do everything I can to make my H happy, and when (as H actually pointed out) I feel threatened, I go into overdrive...

I'm worried about trying to present MB to him, yes, because he doesn't believe in the principles - because of him being poisoned by OW (this is hogwash. He just doesn�t want to change because he sees nothing in it for him.). He's never given it a chance. I did print out some of the questionnaires on LB's and needs, just afraid for whatever reason to give him it.

If you do not change and become conflict tolerant, you will have a very unhappy life.

Conflict avoidance disallows intimacy.
Conflict avoidance disallows POJA negotiations and mutually happy resolutions to marital problems.
Conflict avoidance is dishonest.
Conflict avoidance creates resentments.
Conflict avoidance shows no integrity.
Conflict avoidance shows no courage.
Conflict avoidance is not caring, but pretends to be.
Conflict avoidance creates vulnerability to affairs.
Conflict avoidance nurtures self-victimhood and martyrization.

Want relief?

Relief #1

Relief #2

Relief #3

Relief #4

Yes, you confront him. DEAD ON. You are supposed to be FIRM and SERIOUS and I don't see that you have ever done that.

Set him down and explain that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage where you have to endure his alley catting. In order for the marriage to recover, he will have to make radical, dramatic changes in order to protect you. This is what it will take to keep you in this marriage:

1. no more contact with any women at work, even secretaries, support staff, etc

2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about his affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, and affairs will be a way of life for you.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if he won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

If he won't do these things and do them immediately, I would ask him to move out. And yes, he will have to pay the bills.

If he declines your offer, go pack up his clothes for him.

B. SusieQ is right. I'm an enabler. I realized this the other morning. I do everything I can to make my H happy, and when (as H actually pointed out) I feel threatened, I go into overdrive...

No, never exposed, and yes, I'll get some 2X4's for that, but I guess I don't see if it was never really anything to begin with, why I need to. Again, call me an enabler, but I'm being honest.

No, never exposed, and yes, I'll get some 2X4's for that, but I guess I don't see if it was never really anything to begin with, why I need to.

Then, after the weekend, I went to snoop again in his email. The email in the sents was gone! Who REALLY deletes their sent emails? Especially just one??? anyone?!?

So, looked in the trash. H didn't think to delete the trash (to my happiness AND saddness). Been keeping copies of the emails - definitely bordering on inappropriate. And they skype

So, newest update. She asked him yesterday why he feels nervous talking to her. Found an email this morning (which I luckily got since it's already deleted... time to get a keylogger!) with him saying that he really likes her, more than he should , and telling her about how he tried and failed to get a divorce, and all this crap.

First off, I'm not new, though the lack of postings here says so... just know that I have been here for a bit and have gotten great advice so far.

I don't want to move to the in recovery board because I feel it is too soon and I am still surviving the A. We had a FR once and it really devastated me. I am terrified of going through another one.

I feel that this time is different than the FR, as he is showing sincerity, I have access to email accounts and phone at any time as he leaves his phone around, which is not normal for him probably close to 6 months or more. He has used OW's name in front of me and actually called it an A, which he didn't use last time. I don't know if he sent an actual NC letter, but I know she hasn't called or emailed in days since I've been with H almost constantly. As I said, he leaves his phone so it's away from him and doesn't bother to check right away if he hears a text coming in. He'd been trying to get away from her for a few weeks now. I had done both plan A for many weeks and spent about over a month in plan B working on me and no contact with H.

I guess I'm terrified nervous to make too many demands because I don't want to, well, sound to demanding, and don't want to drive him away. I don't know how to bring up things like POJA and well, all the MB concepts. I've kinda talked about them with him but haven't actually used the terms we use here, just a brief synopsis. He knows of the site's existance but would not be willing to post. He does not know I own SAA, HNHN, and LB's books.

I may have set the bar too low to take him back but I want to continue on this hopeful recovery. Thoughts?

(Please understand more specific details cannot be stated at this time.)

On top of all that, you seem more willing today than you did three years ago to put up with his wayward ways!

He also knows my resolve. I will not stand for this again. I was patent and Plan A/B'ed because I knew of my role that made the environment possible. That has now been worked on diligently, and so if he ever tries this again, I WILL go to Plan D, no ifs, ands, or buts.

My plan A is in overdrive right now, and I'd like to believe its getting through to him.

Misapplication of Plan A ... by Distressed

I may be opening up a can of worms, but I read so many posts from people struggling with the implementation of Plan A that I thought I'd open up a philosophical discussion. Before expressing my opinions, I need to be clear that I myself did do Plan A for about 18 months in total. So when I'm critical, accept that I'm criticizing my own behavior in the hopes that others can learn. Here goes.
I am a great believer in the Harley methodology and it helped me work through a horrible situation. However, I am convinced that there is no greater misunderstanding and misapplication of techniques than in the betrayed's use of Plan A. FAR, FAR too many betrayed's seem to believe that if they stop love busting, go to great efforts to meet the wayward's needs (while the affair continues), and don't bring up OR talks or any issues, their spouses will eventually come back. While the spouses sometimes do come back during Plan A, it is my strong belief that their coming back is much more related to the natural death of their affairs than any action the betrayed is taking.

Plan A serves one narrowly defined purpose only. Its purpose is for the betrayed spouse to demonstrate for the wayward spouse the behavior he/she is capable of should the wayward ever decide to return to the marriage. That's it. It does not and cannot be used to: 1) win the spouse back from the OP, 2) recreate love from the wayward while the affair continues by meeting emotional needs, 3) unconditionally demonstrate love and self-sacrifice from the betrayed, or 4) create guilt within the wayward.

While the positive aspects of Plan A are useful, they come with a very high negative cost if it goes on too long. The backlash to the betrayed's self-esteem grows over time as disrespectful behavior from the wayward is not only tolerated, but often rewarded. The betrayed forgets what it's like to respect him/herself, and just accepts whatever crumbs the wayward offers. Worse still, the betrayed remains so engrossed in the effort to meet the emotional needs of the wayward, that they're not focusing on developing a separate life. This doesn't always happen, but it happens far more often than it should.

I believe the Harley's are frequently misunderstood about Plan A. Their intent is for a SHORT Plan A, just to demonstrate the changes. Normally, they recommend going to Plan B at separation or after just a few months of Plan A. Plan B is almost always necessary according to the Harley's. Their advice is clear, but many people do not apply it as advised. Plan A goes way too far.

Unfortunately, it's best to accept that once someone decides to leave, whether they choose to come back is completely out of the control of the betrayed. The primary influences on the wayward's behavior are some combination of the state of the affair and the character of the wayward, not the actions of the betrayed. That's why Harley says go to Plan B and stay there. It's basically designed to allow a maximum waiting period for the affair to end.