Comfort Zone versus Hoping my W grows

I have something I�d like to discuss.

My W has anxieties. So much so she takes medications for them. She has her comfort zones (don�t we all) and I typically do what I can to help her feel safe/comfortable. I do what I can to ensure I don�t commit any LBs that would make her feel unsafe and lose her love for me. I�m quite certain it is one of the main reasons she chose me as her partner in life.

Her anxieties impact our lives � sometimes it creates conflicts. Some things are just off the table for us as couples. For instance, she will not fly. And seeing I usually have limited days I can take off from work driving to destinations (or other forms of transport) aren�t optimal. We�d burn a good chunk of our time off just getting to, getting back and recovering from the long drive neither of us is wanting to sign up for trips. So we do smaller things instead. Which is OK but there is so much I�d like for us to experience.

Anyways getting off topic.

This weekend we were out with my buddy and his W. Good, good friends. Lovely couple with a wonderful M. My 2 buddies have their captain�s license for sailing. They can take pretty decent sized sailboats out on the Great Lakes. These 2 buddies got their certifications together. So as couples they go out on these boats. They�ve continually asked for us to go with them sometime but up until this weekend she really hasn�t been interested. She�s been afraid.

Mrs Alias has upped her prescription on her meds and she�s stated she�s trying to get over some of her fears. I see her trying.

So during our dinner with this wonderful couple they took over an hour talking to her about it � answering her questions, helping her feel comfortable, giving her reassurances that at any point she�d want to get off they�d do what they could to get her off the boat (save the jokes for tossing her overboard � good laughs there).

When we were alone later she professed her biggest fear isn�t getting on the boat. It�s being on the boat, having a panic attack and being embarrassed in front of our friends. That�s what she fears the most. She says it takes her back to her childhood where she was picked on mercilessly by people who she thought were her friends.

I would so like to make this easy for her. It�s easy for me to say my friends would never do anything to make her feel worse because they are simply fabulous people. And I reassured her I WOULD NEVER ALLOW THAT. She knows this yet says all she can see and feel is the same old thing she�d experienced during those horrible years (before we met).

My fear is that she�ll be so freaked out over what she perceives could happen that she�ll have a tough time enjoying the boat ride. FYI my W loves the sights and sounds of the big water despite being terrified of it and having a fear of drowning in it.

I�m trying to figure out what I could do to make this less stressful for her. She told me her fears in confidence. It�d be so easy to divulge this to my buddy so him and his W could reassure my W � but that isn�t what Mrs. Alias would want me to do. She wants to keep this close to the vest � as she does many, many things. LOL. It is where we differ so. I�m an open book regarding things a lot of things including things that make me feel uncomfortable (yet totally dishonest about my feelings when I�m being hurt by her � go figure). I hate secrets. I often have a hard time knowing what is fair game to say and what needs to be kept secret. So I often just spill the beans and get it out there.

I need to protect my W � I just don�t know how to make this easier for her.

Thanks for listening. Any thoughts?

She is worried about being trapped. Propose an itinerary that sticks close to the shoreline and promise her that if she requests it, you get her onto dry land within an hour (say) with no questions and YOU are the one that says you want to go to shore. You could agree a code word between the two of you?

Another thing that might help her is a taster trip?

I know how you feel Mr.Alias. Feelings, trust, and honesty is so complicated. Think both of you as one, communicate then poja.

Could you start out slower with maybe a trip with just the 2 of you? This may sound silly but fear of having to use the bathroom either where there is none or on a small boat where there's no hiding you going - That can cause anxiety.
My Wife's mom has a boat and we live with access to the water. The couple of times I have been on the boat it's been a lot of fun and I wondered why my wife hasn't been interested, so I asked her and she said - there's no bathroom on the boat - what if we get out there and I need to use the bathroom? We would have to come back and if people were with us it would be embarrasing.

I would drop that plan entirely! Find something else, MrA. You don't want her facing your time together with DREAD. It's one thing to find something that is new but its quite another to push someone to do something they DREAD. Find something that EXCITES HER. You need to find things that make you both look forward to your time together. Otherwise, she will start avoiding it altogether!

And she needs to learn to just say NO. There are lots of things I say NO to for the same reasons. I am not going on a motorcycle, camping, hunting anything that involves heights. I DREAD all of those things and I won't even try them.

I don't view this as a way to "grow" at all. I view this as your wife trying to force herself to do something she DREADS. She will not be a better person for it. She will be a more unhappy, anxious person. And she will associate that unhappiness and anxiety with YOU, MrA. She will associate the feeling of DREAD with you.

I refuse to go camping and no one can convince me that I would be a "better" person or go through some imagined "growth" for doing something I loathe. All that would do is make me miserable.

What I find interesting is that I gave up a long time ago even asking her if she wanted to go on the boat. I am very much OK with us finding other things we like to do together � and we do find other things. So when we were out Friday with this couple and she mentioned Lake Superior and they mentioned sailing she started asking questions. I sat there just listening while she kept asking them more about where they go, how far away is the land etc.

The one thing I did tell her is that we have been on this water because we took a tour of the Apostle Islands on one of their tour boats. That boat took us out to Outer Island which is, of course, the outer most island. Nothing but a big old lake out one side of the boat and this little island on the other. I let her know that isn�t where we�d be going on any sailboat as that is where the water gets a lot more treacherous.

After that hour in talking with them she said �I wanna go!�. I looked at her with a puzzled look. She said it with such excitement. �Really?�. �Yes, you know how much I love the water. How much I love listening to the waves and the water lapping along the shore. And you know how much I love relaxing by cruising on your sister�s boat on their lake. It must be really cool to have a silent boat sailing through the water. �

I left it at that. Didn�t mention anything about committing to them, etc. So now her and I can discuss it more freely. POJA. POJA. POJA.

I guess I wrote because I really wanted to talk more about her anxiety regarding the situation and the way she�d perceive our friends would behave should she want to turn the boat around. They are such good friends and I know they would never say or do anything to make her feel bad or foolish. I�m sure they would apologize profusely for convincing her to go. I tried to reassure her of this. She knows these people well enough and knows they won�t.

Still she says she can�t helping feeling that they would and this is when my W got quite upset. Talking about the past and the way she was treated. I felt so bad for her. The things she talked about how she was treated. Grrrr. Really upsets me that anyone would do that to a person. My W is a sweet person and it makes me mad when people get pleasure out of torturing other people ... especially those that are good hearted people. Granted this all happened when she was a teenager or younger, but still.

She�s upset with herself that she�s let her fear control what she�s done in this world. I am not going to convince her that she needs to DO ANYTHING she doesn�t want to do. The decision is hers and she can say NO at any time including up to the point that we�re ready to step onto that boat. And I won�t go without her.

As far as where we go on the boat they talked about that. My buddy said �Hey, if all you wanna do is cruise up and down the channel of the marina that�s what we�ll do. You won�t know how much you can tolerate and that�d be a great way to start.�

My W says �I really would like to cruise around the islands like you say you do. Find a bay to anchor and sit in the sun.�.

So I�m torn. Just as I imagine what would happen on a plane I imagine what this boat ride could mean for her. It�s not my place to talk her into it or out of it. If she�s on-board, figuratively and literally, then I have to trust it is something she wants to do for herself and not just for me.

We�ve got months to think about this as it�s still frigid here.

Oh and thanks, everyone, for your replies. It helps just to talk this out with each of you.

If your wife fears certain activities then you should not ask her to do them - end of story. You should not ask her to confront her fears, you should not ask her to undergo therapy (I know that wasn't mentioned), you should not ask her to try tiny parts of the activity - you should just leave it alone. It actually seems cruel to persuade her to try something that she is seriously frightened of.

We can live without sailing. Think how many people in the USA - never mind the whole world! - never get to be on a sailing boat, and yet who have happy times. We can also live without flying. I appreciate your point about driving limiting what you can do, but I cannot see for the life of me why someone would want to make his spouse unhappy for a leisure pursuit.

Avoid being the source of your spouse's unahppiness - that's a basic MB tenet. Fying and sailing should be off the table with not another mention ever again from you.

I don't think MrAlias is mentioning these things, Mrs Alias brought them up.

Why is she afraid of drowning? Can she swim? Would swimming lessons make her feel more secure on the boat?

If I can practice my Yoga breathing through a panic attack then it's not noticeable to most people that I'm having one. DH will notice, but I can make it through a meeting or whatever without it being obvious.

POJA it, don't push her, don't bring it up, and don't make her unhappy, but if she's ready to do it then I hope she enjoys it.

I am VERY HAPPY not to have my hair messed up!! thankyew...

Take her shopping and out to Olive Garden!!

Will do. We are starting our remodel project this week so her and I will be doing lots of home improvement/ home interior shopping. We go out to dinner together quite often. That part is hurting our budget � lol.

If she wants to get on a boat (with zero pressure or suggestion from me) then I'll see to it she and I do. I think it will be a lot of fun with people we both like a lot but she has to want to. If she doesn�t then I�ll be sure to protect her feelings and respectfully decline their invitations.

Why does it seem like everybody thinks I'm forcing her to get on a boat? I brought it up to her a couple times a couple of years ago. Then brought it up to her in private again last summer. I asked her if she'd like to, mentioned to her that this couple would like us to, she waffled. Then later she said not really but wasn�t sure, etc. I dropped it.

She brought up the Lake this Friday. They mentioned sailing. She started asking �Tell me about it� questions. I sat and listened. Away they went.

I will be sure to ask her if she�s positive if and when she does state she�d like to book something with them. I�ll be sure she isn�t doing it just because she wants to test her wits. That she wants to do it because she believes she will have an enjoyable, relaxing time. And if at any moment it isn�t for her I will do everything it takes to get her off the boat and avoid embarrassment.

I do think it is important, for me, to test myself. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. But, again, that is me and I am not asking her to do anything here. She�s scared, doesn�t want to test her fear, there is no enthusiastic agreement. We don�t make her face her fears. That part is in place. POJA 101.

This probably isn�t the place for me to ask the question about her fear controlling her thoughts. I certainly would like to help ease her pain. She�s vocalized her pain and stress in having these fears. It�s hard for me to know she�s hurting and not be able to help � outside of building our M, of course.

End of the day we POJA. Her and I POJA really well. With this new agreement she feels safe knowing I am not going to make her do anything since isn�t enthusiastic about � as I can�t because that isn�t in our agreement to each other. This newfound safety is evident by the fact she�s suddenly being radically honest about her fears. I mean we�ve been together for 26 years or so and this is the first I�ve heard her say she�s more afraid of being embarrassed then the event that makes her uncomfortable/scared. I always thought it was her fear of injury or death, etc. So that�s cool, way cool.

Mel, she doesn�t like to camp either. ;-)

I knew she was a woman of good taste!

Tell her that sailing will mess up her HAIR and she will be cold and windblown all day!

I think she knows that ... that's why I was so surprised when she said let's do it. Huh????

Sometimes we just get a little crazy because we haven't been shopping enough!

I do hate nit-picking when it misses the whole point, but since you brought it up:

MrsA didn't bring up this conversation that went on for over an hour about sailing. It seems that the couple have friends who like to take people sailing with them, and MrA would like to go with them, with his wife.

So between them, they pin her down and harangue her for OVER AN HOUR about doing something that she has a fear of and would not like to do. I think that is horrible and MrA should never have let that happen, no matter how "kind" the tone of the conversation was. That is getting close to torture for someone who has what the rest of us might see as an irrational fear.

How do you SO fail to see the point that his pressure should not be put on MrsA? Other people don't understand her fears, so they should try by every means to get her to do the things she is terrified of doing?

How can people on MB make such cruel suggestions?

If MrsA wants to overcome her fears because she hates the way they limit her life, then by all means MrA should brainstorm with her ways of overcoming them. But from what he has described, she doesn't want to go in a boat, she is terrified of the idea and does not see it as something that she would enjoy or benefit from.

Take it off the table! Leave it alone, MrA, and do not try to gain your desire at the expense of your wife! I can see that you'd love to go out in the big boat, but she wouldn't.

Oh my! Shopping. Did I mention our budget? Her and I are in the midst of negotiating a shopping budget. Getting new clothes is great but the kids gotta eat. I'm sure you'd like to put in your 2 cents worth on that shop-aholic.

Uhm no. They didn't harangue her. They asked her a simple question. Would you like to go sailing. It was the first time they invited her directly. All other times it was them asking me and me then asking my W.

My W kept asking questions. She kept the convo going for over an hour. My Buddy's W was actually nodding off at the table.

Several times I tried to change the convo, but W kept asking questions. She was definitely interested.

I would just ask her to be radically honest. Tell her that you love her very much and only want her to what is comfortable for her. Tell her you will always love her regardless of what she decides and then ask her if she does want to go, just thought it was interesting but not comfortable with it, just making polite conversation and there is NO way that she would go. It sounds like she MIGHT have been interested but she may also have just been a good conversationalist. Make sure that she is honest with you. Remind her that you can't' be a good husband unless she is. Ask her is she would rather do something else with you instead. Tell her you just want to enjoy spending time with her.