Very good points LongWay.

My W let's me know in her own way as well.

Did you say that your kids vaccum? Is that on the site here, somewhere? Where can I read how to get them to do that. I NEED TO KNOW.... Sorry, but I'm a little jealous

I can relate to some of this and I think it's helpful to see that I am not the only one dealing with similar issues.

Currently my wife is not interested and is unwilling to participate in SF. Saying that she doesn't have the emotional feelings so she won't do it. I haven't much felt like I have wanted to go to work for the past couple of months but I'm still doing that every morning. I don't get it, but that's how it is.

Prior to the current 14 week dry spell we would go through this whole pressure cycle and it would cause problems because I was exactly how you describe - trying to back off the pressure, but at the same time with no pressure there is no SF.

Thanks for the insight. I am just realizing this and accepting this in recent months. I Always took it personally .. and always feared that if my performance wasnt good enough to get her over the edge so to speak that I was a failure or she was getting hers somewhere else or taking it into her own hands and not "saving it for me" to provide it for her to give her that same love bank deposit in the regard for SF. It as a blow to the ego. Everytime it happened like that .. I would be left feeling empty which was often.

This mentality was especially out standing after Reading Dr.Harley say that we should have no sexual experiences without each other. Dr. Harleys book didnt specify about the orgasm part .. just generalized it to SF. So I took it out of context i think and over thought about it. My wife would tell me that often times she wants it when I am not home and by the time the evening comes shes lost the thought or got so busy/tired so she would just take care of it because it was easier or she was bored. She would be willing for me .. and then when i asked her if she was interested in me providing a Big O (which I am VERY capable of helping her achieve no problem) she would tell me she took care of it herself already. This was very discouraging. And often repeated it self over and over again.. and each time I would get more and more discouraged to the point i wondered why we even bothered and this cycle created an aversion in my wife which we are finally coming to grips on.

My wife gets it now ... and we are DEF healing from our past crazy cycles that revolved around SF. My wife said to me recently that the only week she most likely wont be providing SF is her PMS week and when her period comes she said she begins to feel normal again and not some alien thats pissed off . SHe told me if I could make PMS week more pleasant for her emotionally and give her space to be the alien she would be more generous in the SF department all the other weeks. I jumped for joy with that ... she even said that to the psychologist.

So because my wife wants help to recognize her PMS week (sometimes is ok with me telling her and sometiems not but wants to be told anyhow if i am keeping track of it) I now try and predict her PMS week and have an alarm go off on my phone to remind me .. and I bring home a box of hedgehogs chocolates that day. I might be off by a day or so .. but my wife appreciates the sentiment and it brings humor to the suggestion of PMS starting... she cant get upset if i bring home chocolates! Right? :P

Edit to add .. that my wife has even told me when I tell her i DONT want it .. she then wants it for some reason. And this week .. (happens to be my wifes PMS week) with the expectation of no SF in my mind .. and the no mention of SF during PMS week .. shes finding that she actually wants it. Go figure. *shrugs*

If I am being too graphic .. let me know .. I dont think i have read any thread as in depth of details of sexual frusterations as mine. I have seen it generalized but not really addressed or spoken of in a manner like this.

MNG

haha sorry .. we have talked at length with both our kids in age appropriate ways about some of the issues going on ... the kids know that the more they do on their own without us asking or expecting us .. they better rewards we give them for their efforts. More so lately and especially with my DD15. We treat them both almost like adults and in return they often act like them to some degree as their ages will let them. Of course there is alot of guidance also but our entire household has a core of truth and trust between the 4 of us and that has gone a long ways for them to talk to us and be open with us in truths (even if the truth gets them in trouble) .. and respect us as we respect their opinions and them as people .. and not just kids we control and tell what to do. We taught them that truth is always better than lies. We discipline when truth gets them in trouble and when we are lied to for trouble avoidance the penalty goes up. They have tested these waters a few times and now realize we deal with truth much easier and dont punish them for it.

So for them i think its just respect and love is the reasons they do the chores without asking as we have handled them in ways that allows them alot of freedom. More so with my DD15 than DS8 becasue well .. he is 8 and does act his age sometimes.

The Book His Needs her needs for parents helped us a bit with that also.

Well .. I will tell you whats changed our dynamic in that regard. I have killed my desperation for the most part. My wife can sense my agenda if all I am thinking about is getting laid. I have approached with an attitude of not really caring if SF occurs or not and its beginning to happen more! A good part of it is because I am acting in a way thats more appealing to my wife than I used to be many many months ago. I tease her some in a playful way .. and sometimes (depending on her mood) I treat her like shes a spoilt brat. But I do it in way that doesnt undermine her feelings. I am in the habit of asking her How she feels. Then inquiring on her response with more HOW questions. I try not to provide answers and fixes when she talks but rather listen and reword it back to her so she knows i heard it and try to be a bit unpredictable and a bit cocky in fun ways.(example I always take my shirt off to do the dishes and flex and stuff and tell her she should make a calendar of me doing the chores with my shirt off) When we talk .. I will touch her when i say certain words to emphasize them and when I am sitting on the couch pretending I interested in the TV (when my mind is really thinking about her as it often does) I will place my hand on her lap... snuggle a bit .. then retract and remove my hand and all touch. Next thing I know .. shes putting my hand back ... and kissing me. Go figure? lol .. its taken me quite a while to train myself to do these kinds of things and have them working consistantly. Everything used to be so cut and dry and boring ... I have been trying to be more fun to interact with and that goes a long ways after you display it and pass all the [censored] tests our wives give us when they want to see if the changes are real.

MNG

I can relate to the wife sensing part - Even if I don't feel like I am showing anything on the outside, she can tell something is up. For me that was disappointment and frustration with no SF that she detected. That only led to more stress and fights and stuff. I also have tried the killing my desperation/not initiating, but for me so far it's just made me lonely.

Do you feel the not caring if SF happens attitude is more of the reason or your better interaction with her that's fueling the increase in SF? Im sure it's both, but have you talked about it? (not suggesting you should - I wouldn't rock that boat if I were you and actually getting SF)

Good Stuff!

It was a combo of both. But mostly my inner self. My wife and I have talked about it several times. Infact controlling my anxiety has been huge contributer to more SF also.

I find that being so ramped up by anxiety causes me to seek SF alot more. More so for the physical release part. Almost like anxiety has me in a state of over stimulation .. and SF dials the volume down so to speak. But I had to stop seeking SF for the "fix" of my anxiety. Being less stimulated and able to recognize my own inner mind state has really helped in the "kill my desperation" aspect. Its really all in your head (or mine for that matter) in regards to the fact its almost like dog whispering. Your state of mind .. or the energy you give off. I found that if my affections were giving off a sexual undertone she would pick up on it right away .. this would give me anxiety and cause me to feel desperate. Basicly she could tell when my affections were sexually intended or not and if they had sexual intentions .. it would make her feel "pressured". So I try to make my interactions with her more FUN oriented and interesting. Play on her words a bit ... try and find something funny out of what she has said .. maybe show off to her a bit.Open ended questions about herself. You know .. dating and courting interactions.

I will quite often ask her how she is feeling and i use that to put together how to respond to her.

Whats really helped lately is NOT doing ANYTHING I dont want to do. So when i do something for my wife .. she is appreciating it more because she knows its because I wanted to do it and not that I am doing it to get her affections or SF. Or she can ask me politely and respectfully how I would feel about doing something for her .. instead of me trying to guess what she wants done.

In a nut shell ... its self respect without placing unwanted expectations on my wife. I am no longer seeking her approval or attention in ways that set off her alarm bells of "pressure". Its more covert now and she likes it that way.

Example: the other day my wife was telling me about her day in her dental office and how she had to clean up some stuff her dentist asked her to. I said to her .. "man .. you should come clean up some storage rooms in my office building!" She gave me this puzzled look like i was insane and said "Thats really odd that my mind (hers) went to the gutter before yours (mine) did. I was thinking more of the fact that they are secured areas where you (refering to me) only can get to ... why would you want to clean if I came to your work? lol" Then I was like .. "OHH .. your right ... geesh .. what was I thinking?" And seriously I was thinkig my wife could come do some work! lol .. and my wife was thinking kinky SF in a semi public place (where I only have keys to). I thought .. wow .. how come i didnt think of that first? and i kind questioned myself for a moment as to why.

With my anxiety under control (or far better than I used to be) .. I think about sex far less. And this puzzles my wife to the point she is doing more initiating. I am doing less chores (unless she respectuflly asks me or I ask if I can help with something) .. and spending more time with my kids .. and she is eating it up. She would rather do all the chores and have me take the kids away for a while.

And on the day I think her PMS starts (the week prior to her period) I buy her a box of her favorite chocolates to let her know .. i know... and its a bit of a joke now. She smiles at me and says "is it that time already? that went by fast"

*shrugs*

For what it's worth, sex where you can get caught I've found to be wayyyyy over rated when you're worried about getting caught. My wife, on the other hand, thinks that part of it is semi exciting.

I have a great story about my wife leading me inyo y parents laundry room while we were visiting on vacation. Dad is sleeping in the next room (and could wake up any second), mom was bound to be home at any second (the door she would enter into was the door to the laundry room), and there weren't any locks on the laundry room doors. One arm holding one door shut, a leg holding the other door shut, and I felt like a teenager all over again worried about being caught by my parents. Geez...I'll never do that again lol

That's awesome kilted!

I'm not super keen on "chances of getting caught" but I am a commercial building manager and have keys and access to places in my buildings that no one else does with zero chance of getting caught.

My wife just found it strange and curious that my mind was not in the gutter and for once it was hers that was. Of course I immeditely changed my perspective and agreed and was all like "Yeah, hun that would be hot" . Its like geesh what was I thinking. Where my usual previous self would have gone to the gutter way before my wife.

Seems as our dynamic changes and we get our anxietys sorted out with the psychologst the pendulum in regards to sf is also changing. Things feel much more relaxed and not so amped up. I just hope I don't lose my drive for sf as my wifes picks up.

But the fact is. Anxiety in me is a huge turn off for my wife. I think it was a massive contributer to this "pressure" she would feel. She has her own also but it seems my mind state controls the majority of the households mood. *shrugs*

Mng

You know .. Looking at the stuff I have said about doing less chores? I'm not really doing less.. Just doing things differently. What I take from that is my wifes needs have changed and mine has too (I asked her to fill out the ENQ but she doesn't seem interested yet)

So that (even though she's not fully aware of it) must be the on of the causes in her spike in interest. On top of killing my precieved past neediness that was screaming anxiety.

It might just be possible that we may have hit a new wave of balance in my marriage after all this upheaving lately. Whatever it is I hope to keep up this fantastic momentum we have in need meeting, ua time and family time in general. Also looking forward to a family get away for a week in july. 2013 has so far been really full of surprises for us and full of self discovery, awareness and enforcing our self respect in regards to our extended families.

Mng

Praying for you MrNiceGuy, I know it can happen, so easy over a period of time. Make sure you keep your head and heart calm. Be secure and be confident in your relationship with God and who He made you to be. There is a way to get your wife back and have her love you again, if there is any love in her.
My encouragement is make sure you get back in church.

My heart goes out and I am praying for you.

Daren.TV

Thanks for the encoragement DarenTV. You made an account just to post your encouragment? Maybe u know me? Hope all is well with you and yours. If your struggling in your own relationship please post your story so we can offer our support to you too.

Mng

Well a little update if anyone is interested. Haven't really posted in several months.

Things between my wife and I have improved greatly. We have been seeing a psychologist who's been helping us with our anxiety and angry outbursts. (Mostly mine). And guidling us through our extended family drama (major cause of anxiety) and giving us tools and homework ideas to bring us back to ourselves. He had been fantastic and he upgraded us from once a week now to a follow up once a month. Wooots! He feels our recovery is moving along excellent. He validates both my wife and I and addreses our concerns very fairly. Every session we had we did together with radical honesty and managed to maintain respect and when we stepped out of line our psychologist would correct out cognitive thinking patterns before they got away on us and ramped up the anxiety to the boiling point. Thank good ness that doesn't happen anymore. We went over childhood stuff together and our insecurities and everything.

I have not had a single AO since the big one I last posted about and having control over my emotions and anxiety has really helped keep the "volume" turned down and a lot of the stuff the guy has spoken to us about has really had a huge impact on my wife in positive ways. My wife actually believes my feelings when I express them to her (she used to dismiss me a lot even when following mb) but I did that also in different ways. I feel like a totally different person now than I ever have. My wife also feels like a different person. We both have totally new outlooks on life.

SF is a lot easier to talk about now. Not perfect but my wife tells me she no longer (very often anymore except on PMS week) feels sexually pressured by me and is overcoming her aversion to SF that I have helped create since our children arrived and actually has been initiating intimacy quite often.

I feel so in love with my wife in the calmest possible manner. My wife has been so respectful.. Caring... And loving its like god gave me a new wife! These past few weeks I have gotten the look of love from my wife so often its unbelieveable. Being calm and almost free of unwanted anxiety feels soo amazing (for both of us since a lot of our insecurities have been dealt with). At one point before I was going to consider anti anxiety meds but our psychologist suggested no and same with anti depressant meds too. He said he could get us through it without the need for meds and he delivered!

I am in a new chapter in my life and it feels amazing. I'm a whole new me and so is my wife! The future can't stop us now! Muahahahahahhahaha!

Hopefully I can be of some help sometimes around here again.

MNG

Thanks for the great update, MNG.

It really is amazing, isn't it, what happens when the love busters are eliminated. Then the deposits stay in the account and love has a chance to actually grow and breech the romantic love threshold.

Oh yeah! For sure. Many of our lovebusters have been eliminated for sure. Far easier to work on being in love when your not exhausted from bailing the water leaking into the hull of the love boat!

One of the key ingredients that got this ball rolling in the right direction was radical honesty. (Psycologist didn't put it that way but we reapplied his tools to MB in the process). We were told to ask eachother how we felt everytime we interacted. Example: when we come home from work. Greet. Then instead of asking "how was your day" we were to ask "how are you feeling?" And be honest about it. Take inventory of the feelings and procede from there. This helped tremendously. If our feelings were bad and it (from our perspectives) was caused by our spouse we were to own our feelings and explain how they came to be that way with the most amount of respect we could drum up and not take offence for our spouse feeling certain ways that may or may not have been caused by each other. No more being offended (especially if its obvious it was not intentional) or disrespectful towards eachother. No more getting defensive or disrespectfully placing blame even if we feel the other deserves it. Serves no purpose.


This approach has really helped my wife hold shorter grudges and she feels much better understood (these types of questions meet her need for intimate convo!) and vise versa (really helped having the male psychologist there to better elaborate my side of things to my wife as he seemed to speak with authority to us both and my wife took to heart everything he said. It was like we were talking to a police officer or a judge lol.

I don't feel like my marriage is on life support any longer. Probably the first time ever actually. Even since all my prior posts where I thought things were amazing its even better now.

Anxiety I think is a big killer of marriages and society. Much of what people call "stress" is actually anxiety! If not properly taken care of and identified, man it does a lot of damage! I have never felt so normal in all my life (took a while tho)... Anxiety is sooooo draining you don't even really recognize that that's what's draining you. It drains adrenal glands. Its mentallly draining and it creates a negative feedback loop that constantly reinvents itself to stay in your head repeating negative movies and worries over and over again.

Anyways. I feel amazing and I feel like my marriage is in the best standing its ever been in since I found this place. Its been a long journey. Not as long and hard as some here (so I shouldn't complain because it could have been crap tons worse) but having the love bank holes all or mostly patched up makes working on marriage far easier.

MNG

Sounds great, MNG!

Great job Mr. and Mrs. NiceGuy. Thanks for the update.

That is great news MNG. Keep the ball rolling.

Thanks guys. Much appreciated!