She has agreed to move out. She is currently meeting with our pastor. God knows I've heard "sorry" enough, which is why I'm escalating this.


absolutely correct. Which is why I specified that it was outside of our dysfunction. One can be a nurturing mother and an abusive spouse--the two CAN coexist, although it's terrible for the children and I cringe at the years of therapy she just scheduled for them for her outbursts yesterday. So despite all that, yes I have demanded that she leave the kids behind and focus on herself. I will be able to take them for the weekend, and probably schedule an employee to take care of at least Monday thru Wednesday. After that I don't know, but I'd have to hire more help and train them. I have family nearby that might babysit. It's absolutely impossible to bring them to work with me, but if I have to pay employees the whole time of the separation, we can financially manage for a long (though slender) time.

Thank you everyone for the replies. They've helped me shape a reasoned response in a time that I felt it nearly impossible to think clearly, just RUN AWAY GET AWAY GET AWAY. I have a well-developed fight/flight response, and the last thing I (and my boys) needed was another fight.

Are there any men or women here who've been there before?

I hope that my intentions and mindset are clear now, and that I'm done with "Battered wife"/stockholm syndrome. There will never be any excuse for her behavior and I will never tolerate even the beginning of it ever again, regardless of the state/progress of our long road to reconciliation.

Now.

For those of you interested in my flaws, I have many. I have a lot of coldness when I am angry or offended. This leads us right into the crazy cycle as defined by Eggerichs in Love and Respect. It often leads to some escalation, though clearly not this sort of stuff. Typically the cycle could be hopped off of within an hour or two or at most a day.

Most importantly I think was that I have fought porn addiction for many years, to her great (and very reasonable) pain. I recognized how much it hurt her, and that it is a type of infidelity (though I do not want to belittle those struggling with actual infidelity.) Since I have discovered yourbrainonporn.com I have finally recognized it as an actual addiction in need of treatment and have finally quit for good (130 days now.)

Again I'm of course not excusing her behavior, but just letting everybody know that I'm also a dreadful sinner in need of forgiveness.

One thing you should know is that all AM courses are not the same. Some are effective, some are not. Dr Harley has checked into this and recommends Anger Busters.


I disagree; every spouse is not abusive. There is a massive difference between forgetting to say "I love you" and pro-actively and systematically abusing your spouse.


Unfortunately, the abuse wipes all of those pluses out. Abusive marriages have a very high rate of divorce. Hopefully we can help you turn this around.

Did you see my suggestion to write to Dr Harley? He could be enormously helpful in your situation. He would also speak to your wife.

Melody, my apologies! That was in response to the very first post by NeverGuessed, not you. I was bleary this morning after sleeping 3 hours on the floor and see now that I missed addressing the comment specifically. Forgive me.

My wife was the one who first discovered the Harley books. She would probably listen to him. I will write and link this thread.

Good man!



Both you and your wife would benefit greatly from the book Lovebusters and perhaps even getting coaching from the MB coaches. If you are committed and disciplined, though, you can do the entire program on your own with the books and the workbook. The first 5 chapters of Lovebusters is devoted to angry outbursts, etc. That would be a good place to start.


It is good you have stopped this. Porn use is very hard on marriages and it is a good idea to STOP any destructive behavior that triggers her anger.


It is good that you are looking at it this way. And Dr Harley would agree with this approach. My H also had angry outbursts, which he had to learn to control, but I also had to stop doing the things that triggered him. So you are on the right track.

Don't worry about it for a minute! hugs to you, my friend.

We haven't read Lovebusters, but we devoured His Needs/Her Needs, Fall in Love/Stay in Love and one whose title escapes me about being specifically for parents. We even did the questionnaires about meeting needs, but that was over 6 years ago, before we had kids. We haven't "refreshed" for many years

*hugs* *tears*

Hmm. Looks like his show was already almost by the time I emailed. Maybe if I'm lucky he'll pick it up tomorrow.

That's ok. He probably won't respond for a few days anyway. They will contact you and tell you when to call in. IF you want to call in. You don't have to do that to get advice.

The last 15 minutes of the show today addressed some of the problems you are facing. You can listen to the rebroadcast for the next 24 hours. [click on the "rebroadcast" button]

NG's Betting Parlor is opening the book on whether Mrs. PM's underlying issue is not
heavily influenced by considering a potential PM-replacement, and the resulting fogged-up
contrast effect exacerbating her anger issues.

We open at even money.

Certainly, having her leave the marital home will soon make that manifest, will it not?

Hmm. I'll actually take the "no" on that side for $20. It's possible but pretty unlikely. Once she had her whipping boy she's shown no interest elsewhere that I've seen. And I'll make sure to update you.

Well I met with my pastor today, basically we just hung out and worked on a few things in the shop while I filled him in (he's fairly new to our congregation.) Good man, though young.

She was still very contrite, but not pushy. It's clear she knows she's done wrong, but that has never been the problem in our history. The problem has been making it the *last* time she does something like this even during an "angry outburst" of "temporary insanity".

Her main problem is her desire to hurt me in any way she can, when she gets angry. She's never had a problem with lying and hiding things, (with the "abuser echoing" in mind--could she be covering guilt over her own affair or desire?) So I went ahead and asked her. She didn't dissemble, she told me that there was absolutely no other person, nor the desire for one, and that she wants to make it work. I believe her. In our history there have been some small financial indiscretions (we practice the Dave Ramsey plan of agreeing on every dollar of our finances) but she has never hid it from me and always owned up. I know that infidelity is a much bigger deal but we also have always practice the "leave no possibility for even the accusation" mentality in our relationship, even before marriage (that was one of my problems at college- not that I messed around, I didn't, but I had many female friends that were a little too close for her comfort. She's since become best friends with one of them.) This was part of why her accusations were so outlandish.

But it is kind of interesting to see if a bitter stranger knows my wife better than I do. If so, it'll be a dramatic wake-up call.

My wife and I will make the house handoff tomorrow night. After that, who knows. We shall see.

Edit: Here's the thing. She wants to hurt me when she's mad. She could just have an affair, because she knows that would hurt me better than what she's been trying so far. But she's still a little in denial that she's abusive I think, and that everything can just be okay if she goes back to being nice again. She still views an affair as the big, huge no-no that she would NEVER do because she's not THAT kind of person. Just like a murderer might wax eloquent about how he's superior to a child molester because he's never TOUCHED a child!

PM,

What kind of anger management program has your wife been in? It hasn't really worked. Will she continue with this program or look for another? I have heard Dr. Harley talk about people with anger problems using a galvanic skin response meter to aid them in relaxation.

I am glad you are doing a house handoff. Your children need to be protected from her behavior.

Are there any physical conditions that contribute to your wife's anger?

AM

@armymama: I do not know what kind of program she was in because I wasn't really involved (I will be this time). I don't know if it is something that needs like, a refresher course, but I noticed an instant and long-lasting improvement (perhaps 2 years without unreasonable outbursts) and would like to see that last longer. Like, forever longer. She's going back to the same counselor to start, but we'll probably do a few different things.

In her normal times of lucidity we've talked about physical conditions and ruled them out on the basis of circumstances. She can get pretty angry and bitter at a few of her family members, but I'm the only person in her entire life that she has escalated to anywhere near a level that should be called abuse. She's a SAHM now but during employment as a hair stylist she always kept her cool. A few times she's lost her temper and yelled at her children about how they were destructive little monsters, which I suppose is borderline, but she's never struck them in anger (that I know of) and is usually fairly methodical in her punishments. Then again, it's possible that I could simply trigger her anger response more effectively than the other, normal things. I'd cop to that.

But no, we haven't had her physically tested for neurochemical imbalances like elevated epinephrine/catecholamines, amygdala irregularities or any of that stuff. One noteworthy item is that she is diagnosed and suffers from migraines. But afaik from the neurologist is that migraines are almost always neurovascular and not neurochemical in nature.

by the way, those 2 years were about 4-5 times longer than any other time she went without abusive outbursts. It was clearly effective, but it didn't "take". I should have been more aware of the warning signs.

Mikey, a good anger management course will teach her to relax and to avoid ALL anger and bitterness. Instead of her brain going to the anger center when she gets upset, she will learn how to create new neural pathways to her problem solving center. It doesn't sound like she has been taught to do this.

Like I said earlier, Dr Harley says that most anger management courses are worthless. He does like Anger Busters because they teach relaxation techniques, which is crucial to retraining the brain.

Additionally, once you get this under control I strongly suggest you go through the MB program. This is not a program that will avail you anything if you cherry pick it. It all works together or it doesn't work at all. It is a total behavior modification program that restores the romantic love in your marriage.

p.s. I don't really think your wife is having an affair, but asking her if she is having an affair is not the way to find out. A cheater will not admit it if asked. It wouldn't hurt if you looked around on her computer and phone and kept a watchful eye.

What are you doing that triggers her? What is happening when she goes off?

Well, it seems that I will be making myself unpopular by saying this here, but...

You have a good point that angry outbursts are not desirable and certainly not in front of the children. On the other hand, it is very unlikeky, that they will have to go through years of therapy. It is important that your wife explains to the children, that she did a bad thing in yelling to daddy and that she should have stayed calm.

Because she has stopped being abusive since the wake up call in 2010, it seems that she is really trying to change her way. Although she had an outburst, she is willing to take concrete steps to change her behaviour. She is also willing tostart using MB. She has no history of taking it out on the kids.

Under these conditions, why would you want her out of the house? One outburst in two years, with a spouse that is willing to seriously make changes and be accountable.

Also, she has children, that are 2, 5 and 6 years old. One of the children is autistic. You are gone all day, have been using porn for the last 7 years of your marriage and have also been angry and cold towards her. She is probably very very stressed and at the end of her rope. And now you want to take your children's mother away for weeks at a time? Talk about traumatizing!

You should really think it over, if this situation needsmeasures this drastic. Also, why not send your wife here to tell her side of the story?

God bless

Happyheart