I will say again that people have a right and responsibility to defend themselves from an assault. When my first husband assaulted me, I took a baseball bat to his head. And would do it again in a minute.

ML I understand you. And it sounds like pm did drive away this time, but after some escalation. New behaviors are never easy. I hope staytogether or Prisca come by, they may have some good insight to share about keeping calm and returning a person to the plan before things escalate.

And we all agree he should not escalate things. He has admitted he has done that. However, that does not justify her physical assaults. And it doesn't mean that he is an "abuser" for restraining her wrists while she beats him. His wife is a bully who has a serious anger problem.

Returning his wife to sanity will be something SHE has to learn. She has to learn to control her anger. Her husband is NEVER responsible for her anger. She can't even begin to recover until she accepts that premise. He did not cause his wife to get angry, SHE DID.

Welcome to MB PM... I see your getting some good advice. Have you listened to Dr.Harleys audio clips on anger management? They were a fantastic insight into how to control anger. Maybe sit down and listen to it with your wife and see what she has to say about it? My wife and I recently had some escelating arguements and I lost my cool ... big time .. wife called the cops on me. I deserved it. AND it was a good thing ... something needed to change. Now .. im not really an abusive husband by trait .. but our conversations did escelate to abuse and i am larger and scarier than my wife is.

Another great resource was www.anxietybc.com because what I realized was that our anger was coming from anxiety. We have/had been so ramped up from recent events that we had been living on the edge of insanity and it didnt take much to tip either my wife or I over the edge. It was to the point where even my children were being affected because they could hear us in our room (even though they pretended they didnt) and it drove my son to a level of anxiety that he told his school he wanted to kill himself. It was a horrible time ... its been horrible since Christmas actually .. but past few weeks has been getting much better.

Here is the clips that got posted to my thread .. it helped greatly to put things into a perspective for myself and my wife (she escalates just as quickly as i do/did so it was helpful for her also) I have only lost my temper 2 or 3 times in my life .. and that is already too many times.

I bought myself a GSR2 biofeedback device. It has really helped me see where I am at with anxiety. I am getting better at it and able to turn the dial up on the sensitivity a bit higher than i could previously. To put it into perspective .. when i first started using the biofeedback it would make noise for me at just under 2 on the dial (had to put a mark on the dial so i could tell what setting i was on) and after several minutes (10 - 15) of focusing on my breathing i could get the tone it makes down and turn the sensitivity up some .. got it to about 2 3/4. Now ... over a month later i can start out at 3 and get it to about 3.5 after 15mins. What surprised us about it is how sensitive our bodies are to stress .. and triggers of stress .. its apparent like 3 seconds later how your body responds as the GSR2 shows you the response. For instance my wife would test me and come up to me and say "Christmas" and 1,2,3 ... boom .. the pitch the GSR2 makes goes up again indicating my body is having a reaction to the thoughts of Christmas before i even realize its affecting my anxiety.

Something to think about anyhow .. its really helped me and teaches me to calm myself down to a deeper state of relaxation .. and futher away form the edge of insanity where you lose your cognitive thinking ability when anxiety takes over.

MNG

Edit: fixed some of my bad spelling

Do we need this? We already have Dr Harley's advice on dealing with angry, violent and abusive spouses.

They are talking about your email on the radio show, Mike!!

Dr Harley recommends "getting the police involved." "Going to jail would be a good thing."

"People who abuse are usually very contrite.<--- point was that being contrite does not prevent abuse.

She needs to follow the steps I give in Lovebusters, perhaps with professional involvement.

The first step is accepting that NO ONE MAKES ME ANGRY.

People who become angry are insane. She needs to get an anger specialist who helps her control her anger under extreme frustration.

Change can happen and I think Mike is doing exactly the right things. We are trying to call him so he can be on the show next week."

My side of the street is getting a lot of treatment now: I'm not just putting her through counseling. WE are counseling. I fully acknowledge that and the reason I am here is because I want to save my tatters of a marriage, which I still emotionally WANT to end right this second even after I've cooled off. I am mentally preparing to move back from withdrawal by meeting every one of her needs even as my "taker" shouts it isn't fair, but I recognize that it's how we move back to intimacy, however much I don't want to be there atm. Well, life isn't fair. Giving up fairness for happiness is exactly the example my Savior set for me.

But before I move back to that place, I need to be satisfied that my wife is moving away from abuse. I will either: 1) ensure safety from abuse for myself and my kids, or 2) I will move towards permanent separation, custody battles, and eventually divorce.

I am not an abuser. I will not yield on this point. You may drop it now.

I am fully guilty of angry outbursts, which is why I'm not bothering to hide anything. I responded to abuse with an angry outburst by raising my voice. It was my wife's intent at the time, and it worked. It won't work again. However when I came home I made a disrespectful judgment, not an angry outburst. I was calm and brought a complaint, but I did so without love but with the "taker's" voice- telling her how she can please me without regard to her feelings. The disrespectful judgment can be placed as the trigger of the abuse, just as a wife refusing sex can also trigger a beating. That does NOT put me at fault for being abused. Before you respond, ask yourself if you'd advise your beloved daughter, friend, sister, niece, nephew to figure out what they had done wrong in order to trigger their spouse to threaten to leave them and unreasonably accuse them of infidelity and verbally assault them in front of their kids. You act like I deserve it.

I don't.

I've left Stockholm syndrome behind me.

Zhamilla is clearly trying to help by telling me "the spots on my street that need to be cleaned." But tall weeds and tires in the front yard isn't grounds for condemning the house and tearing it down. He/she is just overreacting. Trust me, I've seen worse overreactions

I had a very full work day today (fridays are my profit days) and wasn't able to set up an employee to cover for me. Therefore, I had to set up the exchange of the house for tonight instead of tomorrow night. She agreed to it and will follow through with it, I am quite sure. She's no longer in angry outburst/abuse mode and is quite reasonable. Now. The reason you aren't wrong yet is because you haven't had time to be wrong yet. Give it time, @neverguessed

Mikey, the Harleys said on the radio they were trying to reach you on the phone. They went over your situation and fully agreed with your plan. You can listen to the rebroadcast all weekend long on the rebroadcast link.

And if the accusations of abuse don't stop, just click on notify and the mods will help. Your situation is grave enough without having to endure accusations of "abuse" for defending yourself by holding your wife's fists.

You can download the iphone or droid app for MB and listen to it there too. I have the app on my ipad.

Okay folks I need advice again.

I know some of the more presumptive posters will say "a ha! affair!" to this because they think they know strangers on the internet, but I just received the message that she will be staying in a motel tonight (she gave me the information and will FBemail me the room number when she arrives) and then will be staying with a mutual in the next town south, about an hour away. I have known this friend and her husband for many years (since I was in 2nd grade to be exact) and completely trust her and him. They have proven their worth as friends many times over.

I find it a good thing that she is acceding to my reconciliation demands. (I'm not sure if this is 100% Harley-approved but there are absolutely NO negotiations or policy of joint agreement right now for obvious reasons) She's in counseling already with licensed anger management, and we'll be starting separate couples therapy soon, probably next week, followed by joining our therapy after we've had some time to cool off. In satisfaction of another of my demands, she will also be leaving a letter behind taking full responsibility for her actions lest she decides to engage "history revision" during counseling, something that she's done once or twice as you would expect an abuser to do in order to minimize her sin.

So I'm wondering, where should she go, if not there? Should I allow this? Should she be an hour away? The only reason I'm suspicious of an affair is not at the suggestion of posters but simply the fact that she accused me of one. I have no other reason to believe she's having an affair, and every other bit of evidence suggests that she is not. Just to be sure I have skimmed her facebook page and see no reason to think otherwise as well. We have full access to all each others' personal things, but yes I know there's a possibility of secret email/FB accounts. But in 10 years she has never dissembled or snuck around with secrets. That was me, with my porn use. When she sets the marriage on fire in a fit of temporary insanity, she does it in full view, every time! Occasionally even in front of my extended family!

But even still... is this wise?

Melody, unfortunately my battery died while staying at a friends' house last night. Thank you.

I have a droid phone. but I'll be in front of the computer all day today when not helping customers.

If it's at all possible with such short notice, hire a PI for one or both nights.

Wow. We have a situation. I need your guys' help. [EDITED]

This... this sucks.

Here is our conversation. Feel free to judge me as harshly as you want because I probably need to hear it, and know that I am still angry, but I believe my actions are correct here, but not my use of bad language. Here I go responding in anger again

Here is what happened: she asked me if the plan outlined above is okay. I responded:

Me:
I'm not sure how I feel about this.
I'm still not 100% sure you are not having an affair.
I'm fairly certain, but it makes me extremely suspicious when you accused me of having one. I have no other reason to think so.

Her:
I am not, that was my stupid insecurities and nothing else, I will tell you. I told [friend] we had to cancel our trip to the zoo, she wanted to know why I told her we were separating, she offered to let me stay there, like I said I didn't give her details just that this is my fault and she is not to think bad of you
You can confirm with her that I will be staying there

Me:
Let me think about it for a little while. [this is when I asked here in the forum]

Her:
I question your fidelity and think you might be capable of cheating because of your porn use and I am threatened by how pretty [the accused other woman] is ok, that is where that came from, but it was stupid and it's done. I am not having an affair

Me:
There you go again. I am extremely angry again right now. You just seriously [f*****] up. You have no basis to question my fidelity but you are anyway again. I have never touched, never kissed, never made any move whatsoever on another woman our entire marriage,and I have worked VERY HARD to avoid even the POSSIBLE SUSPICION of infidelity, and avoided every possible temptation. You have a lot to learn about porn use and porn addiction. You are hopelessly abusive, it is endemic in your psyche and I am right to separate from you.

You should NOT have done this through facebook. You should have accused me through a counselor.
You lost me. Is that clear? YOU HAVE LOST ME BECAUSE OF YOUR INSECURITIES.

Her:
yes I should have put that is past tense
I just want you to understand I'm not cheating
I said that wrong ok

Me:
I do not believe you.
How can it be anything else.

To be clear though, she was obviously not angry when she went back to this infidelity thing. That really concerns me. I've never once been accused of infidelity in the history of our marriage, and now 1 accusation and one insistent suspicion in 3 days. I did SOMEthing to make her say this... I guess it was the porn? But I mean I have a healthier relationship to porn (that is, no relationship at ALL to it) than I did the entirety of our marriage and courtship before. And never once an accusation?? What changed?

Guys seriously I am and have always absolutely faithful (unless you count my porn history, I get that) to my wife. Emotionally, physically, there is no other woman in my life.

I personally think your BOTH letting your anxieties do the talking .. once you have done that you lose your cognitive thinking ability.

I dont read into your wifes messages that she is having an affair at all actually.

PM i think your letting your anxiety get the best of you .. anxiety creates a fight/flight/or freeze response when it ramps up .. if you tell her she has LOST you ... it is sending the message that its over. In a context like that .. you could push her to have an affair (not that she will .. or that its right but who knows what kind of damage things you say to her will remain and drive her choices when she is anxious)

You BOTH need anger management and should seriously consider looking into those links i sent you in my previous message .. slow down .. dont be so hasty with your words and decisions.

MNG

To clarify Mr. Nice guy, I don't think my wife is having an affair either. I think that in fact the chance is vanishingly small. I'm just wondering if I should be protecting myself better than I am in case I'm wrong.

Hey, I also think my house won't burn down but I still carry insurance.

good advice. I'm setting it up now.

Just have your counselor do the anger management with you (ours is). Try and get a psychologist to be your marital counselor .. they seem to have a better head on their shoulders than traditional counselors .. my psychologist that my iwfe and I see is FANTASTIC at diffusing us when it gets out of hand .. and so far we have not left angrier at each other when it was over infact we leave with better understanding ... which from our previous counselor experience we did leave angry and upset each time.