Okay. I am scheduled for anger management courses to start as soon as possible (with a licensed counselor). My church is really good about crisis management like this. Thank God for them.

@Nice, it's the same counselor (I believe) that did so well with my wife a few years ago. If not the same person, the same organization.

also check out that GSR2 bio feedback device ... its helped alot .. and its kind of amusing sometimes ..

I think that sounds like a great plan.


That is 100% in line with Dr Harley's plan because you don't use the POJA when there is abuse or infidelity.


Great!!


Very sorry to hear this since marriage counselors are destructive to marriages. They have an 84% failure rate and a higher personal divorce rate than the general population. We have disasters from marriage "counseling" show up on this website every week. They are little more than divorce facilitators and they typically don't like men. I would rethink the marriage counseling because that will hurt your marriage. You can't afford to play chicken with your marriage.


Exchange all passwords before she goes so you can both have complete transparency.

Yes, I believe it is a wise plan. The only red flag is the marriage counseling. They have absolutely, utterly no idea how to fix a marriage. You would be better off doing it yourself out of these books OR paying for counseling with the Harleys. Another option is to go through their course, which lasts about a year. They assign you a coach to over see your lessons. BUT.... if you are disciplined, you can do this on your own with our help.

excellent ... from my perspective if you can maintain your FRAME and not let your anxiety get the best of you, your wifes emotions will follow yours ... not right away .. but if you dont participate in the escelation when it occurs.. I find it diffuses the situation really fast.

In my situaion .. my wife was raised by a violet grandmother. My wife is constantly fighting the urge to be violent in an argument with me. It only escelates if I let it or participate in the escelation .. if I act un bothered by her reactions, stay calm and just walk away and tell her we can talk later when she is calm she goes off .. mutters to herself .. and we talk about it again later with less anxiety controllling us.

@ ML .. our psychologist is male ... has 40 years exp .. and so far so good. Interupts us constantly when he feels we are getting out of hand and diverts our thoughts. But I agree about the traditional counselors .. they do not good .. but this psychologist guy is fantastic. Very logical and rational. My wife has eaten some crow with him lol ... as have i but not as much as her lol.

edit: cant type today.

@Melody/Nice while I'm waiting to hear back from the counselors I am going over your link one you posted earlier on anger management. I WILL change myself.

@Nice As for saying she has "LOST" me, she has. I am entering an indefinite separation. I still will be moving toward reconciliation, yes. But there is not going to be a relationship here at all until her abusive/anger and my anger issues are resolved or at least significantly improved. Frankly I am ready for divorce right now, mentally and emotionally, but I KNOW that it is wrong and I need to fight for this woman I promised to cherish until every last option is exhausted. After that, I suppose it is celibacy until and unless she decides to divorce for my "abandonment" or something.

When I say she lost me, it was a word spoken while angry but it was not a word spoken in anger. The ONLY thing holding us together at this moment is our vows, and perhaps also our children (though I recognize that abusive marriages are no better than divorces for their health.)

She has GOT to understand that her pattern of abuse has wrecked what we had. I have allowed and enabled her to do this for over a decade. She has never had to face the possibility of losing me before. Now it is squarely in her face and she has no choice but to admit it and get with it. Even still we have a chance to win each other back, to find each other now, but right now, sir? I am LOST to her.

Thanks for the warning on the marriage counseling. I shall consider it further with discussion with my wife (through a mediator). Nothing's set in stone at the moment, I was just outlining our plan.

Your feelings are your feelings ... you may FEEL lost ... but its a feeling generated by the situation. You CAN turn this around I have no doubt .. and i bet it doesnt take long either.

But you are right .. separation is a good thing right now. Maybe in a few days .. when your anxieties are not so "controlling" you can re approach her and see if she wants to go out for coffee .. or invite her to your anger management and do it together as a Date of sorts and then go out to eat after to discuss it in a public location.

MNG

^-- this right here is just your negative love bank talking. its your taker .. saying "I have had enough" Its a "fog" of sorts .. it anxiety clouding your judgement. Dont talk like that to her .. talk solutions .. not problems. Its negative self talk .. not healthy for you .. or the kids .. or your wife. try and find some positive reinforcement. This will take some anxiety off your kids also.

MNG

That is outrageous, Mikey. What is your wife supposed to do when she feels insecure or jealous? HOW WILL you address her issues if she doesn't tell you? If a person is insecure about something, the solution is to stop doing anything that would make them FEEL insecure. It is not to punish them.

The issue with marriage counselors [and psychologists] is that they have no idea how to save a marriage. They have no plan. It is a disaster to counsel couples in conflict together and that is NOT something that Dr Harley would ever recommend. Couples who are counseled like this leave counseling more angry than when they went in.

I agree ML .. thats why i suggest BOTH of them go to anger management. Check out the GSR2 and visit that site and listen to Dr.harleys audio clips on anger management together with his wife or send them to her via email.. or FB.

MNG

Well .. maybe its just my experience .. but my wife and I are seeing alot of progress with our psychologist (FAR better than our MC that we went to a few years ago). His stuff is similar to MB but not exactly. So I cant say for sure i agree with what you said .. but maybe we just got lucky. We picked him because several ppl we know had went to him and he saved 4 marriages that we know of. *shrugs*

@Melody: we have no need to exchange passwords since we already have them. My point is that anybody can say they have transparency when they have a secret account and I'd really have no way to verify it without like, a keystroke logger or something? Regardless I don't think secrecy is an issue. Our sins are pretty out-in-the-open.

As a business owner who's been self employed all his life, I believe that I have above-average task-oriented self discipline. Taming my tongue and my anger is obviously a different issue, but I think I have what it takes to go through Harley's program on my own. We kind of have to do it on my own time too, after 9pm most days and on weekends due to work/children commitments, so coaching would probably be limited effectiveness anyway.

@NiceIt's a bit lower on my priority list right now, but please tell me more about the GSR.


Acting unbothered has been a two-edged sword for us. It's been useful several times for diffusing situations. Sometimes I escalate, most times I don't. The times I don't are when she has said something clearly abusive but it's kind of "old news" like her habit of holding the marriage hostage when she's angry. Even though it's completely unacceptable, I've got a good solid callous there.

The other edge with "acting unbothered" is that it often causes her to escalate. When threats of leaving lost their efficacy, it was hitting, calling me a bad husband, badmouthing to her friends, disrespect/abuse in front of the kids, and now attacks on my integrity/fidelity (hoo wee that one got me I admit.)

Also, now that I'm coming down from my anger, I think it was unfair of me to characterize her fears about my fidelity as "attacks" even if I believe so strongly that they are unfounded. She had absolutely no business bringing up my fidelity it's true, but I sort of brought it up originally by talking about why I was a little iffy about her going so far out of town. But my clearer head tells me that in the unlikely event she DOES have an OM he's gonna be in town. Probably BETTER that she is farther away? So oh well, just pile this exchange on the heap of other needless exchanges that will stop one way or the other.

I agree Mel.

Mikey, you need to realize she as your spouse has every right to question your fidelity. You as her partner needs to help her feel secure that it isn't there.

This isn't some game where you each get to guess whether or not you're cheating. It's being an open book so there is ABSOLUTELY no doubt there IS NOT.

If you're to practice what is taught here you need to change this around. You just taught your W that it isn't OK to question your faithfulness. Even if she is an abusive partner and owes just compensation. Now if you ever expect her to be transparent to you you're going to get back what you put out there.

Yeah, just came to this conclusion on my own. But to be clear, that was NOT the time. It should have been with counseling, not in the midst of separation.

Are you kidding me??

I think Dr Harley may have saved more than 4 marriages. Maybe 5. There are more than 4 on this thread alone. And that is what we are here for. Just the fact that you said your MC interrupts you when you and your wife "get out of hand" tells me he is in the habit of putting combative couples in the same room.

I know you want to help, but we have to help this man with tried and true principles. His marriage cannot afford a crapshoot.

No, the time should have been when she speaks to you. She does not EVER need a "counselor" to tell you what bothers her. And your response shocks me. It was rude, dismissive and uncaring. Here your spouse tells you about something that bothers her and you punish her for it.

What would have been so wrong with saying something kind like: I am sorry I make you feel insecure, what can I do to make you feel more safe?

Your reaction did not solve her problem of feeling insecure. It made the situation much worse. You owe her an apology.

From my perspective .. if you have deep rooted love for each other then you will overcome this obstacle quickly ... a few weeks at most. Your wife will have some time to think and come to realize you both have a problem that can be worked on together!

Once you get to a place where your no longer controlled by your anxietys ... you can use the MB stuff to fall back in love again and get some of the books here. Read them OUTLOUD together! There was many light bulb moments between my wife and I when we read the books together. We would look at eachother with this DOH! (homer simpson) look on our faces

We know deep down we are meant for each other we just needed to learn to keep our anxieties in check .. and learn to relate to each other better in healthier ways.

In the 19 years I have been with my wife ... we fall in love quickly when we have mutual understanding. And having the psychologist to validate each of our emotions and question our thoughts .. and not let the other go off on he said she said he di she did during the session .. we are learning to interact in healthier ways as we get corrected. Actually he gets amused at us sometimes .. and that usually deflates us pretty quickly also lol.

BUT .. this is my personal experience only ..

I will link to the biofeedback if you like. Its like a computer mouse with electrical sensors on it for your fingers ... it measures stress .. and you can learn to control it to lower your anxiety and get real feedback on your progress of doing that.

MNG