Mikey, I�m outta here for the weekend.

Just wanted you to know that our intent is to help you grow and that this is all good conversation.

Unfortunately for you your top priority is the anger issues in the home � first and foremost. Meanwhile I�m glad you are engaging us. It will help you move to the 2nd priority once the first it taken care of.

BUT, you are not married to your pastor or any close friends. It is your WIFE who needs to tell you what behavior is upsetting her. And then you can CHANGE that behavior. It is not a matter of right and wrong, it is a matter of ending behavior that bothers HER.

Your pastor and friends cannot answer that for her. Only SHE can answer that question. And asking others if your wife is wrong or right about her feelings is very disrespectful. They cannot answer that.


BUT, it is not your "right" to dismiss her feelings as "unreasonable." That is disrespectful and uncaring. If your wife tells you she is upset about something, if you don't want her to be upset, you should stop doing that thing.

If you had taken this approach a long time ago, I suspect she would have felt so reassured and cared for that it would have been dropped. But since her feelings have been ignored and punished, it has only got worse.


It is not up to you to decide if her feelings are reasonable or not. It is up to you to make her feel safe and alleviate anything that makes her insecure. It won't hurt you to do that.

This is how problems are resolved in a way that protects the love in your marriage.

If you would have resolved her insecurities, she would have likely stopped being insecure and would have stopped making those accusations. Do you see how much easier that would have been for you both?


Perfect! Good man!

@melody regarding talking to my pastor and friends, I'm doing it to validate MY feelings, NOT hers. I see how you misunderstood it though, because it's what I HAVE been doing most of our life together. While I don't understand why she feels that way (yet), I am not trying to invalidate or even necessarily understand it. I just feel differently and that's okay. She won't feel protected until she can feel something and express a concern without judgment. That'll be my goal.

I'll try to be clearer in the future.

Now, bizarrely, she says that she does not actually suspect me of an affair. That's what she told my pastor, anyway. I'm not sure if I believe her but it's kind of not important right now. We've got our own anger management issues to work on separately. We'll try to unpack that more when I'm not in a state of conflict.

Okay folks it's been a bit busy in the shop, I have pastor and other people calling me, and I still need to go through the anger management stuff on the site. I'll be out for a little while and check back sometime tonight.

Thanks for your help. I am getting farther than I thought I would be at this time. I am starting to believe that a lot of tools exist to rebuild our marriage, if we will only take them up and use them correctly.

I came here 2 days ago believing that my marriage was ending because my wife was out of control and I was a victim along for the ride. I hate being a victim, and all my adult life I have refused to be a whipping boy (hence the separation, though it was an awful long in coming). Now though, I'm going to rebuild myself a little and quit focusing on fixing my wife (only she can do that) and start fixing myself. Would I want my niece to marry a guy like me? No. Why should I expect my wife to? That's the great thing about being broken: it's a lot easier to rebuild.

My pastor asked me what my goals were. At first I just said reconciliation and ending the abuse. But then with advice I received here, I was able to go back and formulate what I believe is a better response: I said "My final goal is for her to believe that I would never do anything to hurt her, and that she will feel completely safe with me." That's gonna be tough. As he was writing it down, he said "that you never want to hurt her..." and I corrected him. It's not about what I want, my intentions. After all, affairs rarely happen because they're being sought out. She doesn't WANT to be abusive, either. I'll let her set her own goals. I trust that she will set good ones, and I will not judge the goals she sets.

Working toward the goal of her feeling safe will have several involved steps. I will convince her by curbing disrespectful judgments (this one I think will be my hardest.) jumping off the crazy cycle (I've been pretty good about that in the past, but sometimes I don't do it because I think she "deserves" my anger for abusing me. No more.) Putting routines and habits into place that make us HABITUALLY step off the escalator. It's almost impossible to do this when it's not a habit, because when your anger rises you don't think clearly.

Those habits are gonna be tough to build, so I am going to try to use the tools I have already. I already have a bit of a habit that I think I can grow something from. Often when I am offended by her, whether intentional or unintentional, I grow silent and withdraw (other times I get sarcastic and judgmental, but I'm gonna try to end that). That's not necessarily what I want to do, but if I can modify that habit to trigger the silence AS HER ANGER ESCALATES, it would help jump off that crazy cycle. I still need to make the commitment though to tell her AFTERWORD exactly how I felt harmed/disrespected though, so she'll be armed with the information to better serve me in the future. Let me know if you all think this is a good idea.

I am aware of the possibility that abuse will continue regardless of what I do. But as they say, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. I'll not lose this marriage without doing everything in my power to save it. And I haven't done that yet. Harley talks about how to move from withdrawal back to intimacy and the sacrifice that it takes. I'm willing to do that without regard to whether it's "fair" or "right" and regardless of what anyone else thinks.

The pain and resentment are still there inside me. I don't know how to "un-feel" something. What I do know is that if I had a loving wife who feels completely safe with me, it would go a long way toward releasing that anger and making it not a part of my life anymore.

If you will follow this program to the letter we can teach you both habits that will result in the following:

1. a safe marriage

2. a happy, passionate, romantic marriage

That is our goal. You can learn to resolve problems in your marriage in a way that will protect the love in your marriage instead of eroding it. Basically it is the plan outlined in this article: How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

Like Harley notes in this article, it is unlikely you will achieve any goal in life without a plan. This program gives you that plan.

Did you listen to Dr Harley's comments about your email on the radio yet? And did you speak to Dr Harley yet? They were apparently trying to reach you.

Alright. I ordered a GSR. It sounds like my kind of tool. Gonna work on awareness and control of my anger/stress. It'll have a lot of applications even outside of my marriage.

We are no longer in contact with each other at all, even by text. Too risky. We have each other blocked on facebook. Other than a quick email this afternoon to verify some paperwork for D's autism therapy there is no contact until at least Monday. We'll work through pastor to decide on a specific date to resume communication.

I feel like I'm self aware enough to talk to her now without explosions, but I've decided to wait anyway, because I think I'm more like a teenager who's taken his first karate lesson and thinks he can walk the mean streets at midnight. Knowing the "how" doesn't necessarily mean I am practiced. Gotta work on myself some more. I'm falling back into the rhythm of when we went through his books 6-7 years ago. Seems like I/we forgot just about everything. Time to start over.

Great stuff on that anger management hour with Tyrone, especially near the end. I listened to that last segment twice.

I also heard the response to my email on the air. Great stuff, and I love Joyce's sweet and gentle voice, as she explains things! There wasn't too much on the air that wasn't hammered here in the forum. You guys obviously know his material and strategy very well. So I think I'll benefit a lot more from an actual call so I can answer questions and clarify some of the assumptions they made. I'll be calling in next week.

For now, there just won't be much to report for the next several days unless the house handoff fails to go through. She should be waiting in her car when I get home so she can drive out as I drive in tonight after work.

Gonna have to work on my schedule to make room for 20+ hours of UA time too, when that time comes. I'll need to make some changes to the shop since I've so neglected my availability. In a trial run I have hacked it down to 12 hours/week. I think it's a good start and after a few months I can pull the entire 20 hours out as long as we line up suitable babysitting.

I am looking forward to some hard work.

yeah!!

PM,

Nice report. Keep the positive outlook and work the plans!!!

AM

Armymama: what does "draw close" mean in recovery? Does Harley have "stages of recovery" after betrayal?

Thank you.

PM,

"Draw Close" is the title of Dr. Harley's (co-authored with his wife Joyce) most recent book. It is a daily devotional book based on Marriage Builder's principles and his previous work in "His Needs, Her Needs". My H and I read a devotional every night before going to sleep. There is another MB couple who finished the book and then started it all over again, reading a devotional every day. It's a nice, intimate book for believers.

Dr. Harley doesn't identify any stages of recovery. The Marriage Builder program focuses on meeting each other's emotional needs while avoiding lovebusters.

You have had alot thrown at you the last couple of days. For you and your wife, a good place to start is to avoid the lovebusters. No one can have a good marriage when there is fighting and abuse.

It seems as though both you and your wife want to have a good marriage. I am very hopeful for you both.

AM

Thanks Armymama. If you heard the show, Joyce was kind enough to send me a copy. I'll read it as soon as it arrives. For now I'm reviewing all the material on the website.

I am now home. She left without incident. It's peaceful here. But very quiet.

She left me a note that says:

Michael

No matter what
there is no excuse for the things I said Wed, it was completely unacceptable. I take full responsibility for my actions. I hope I can truly change this time and that God will bring us back together. I love you and only you, forever.

I put it on the refrigerator.

Nice. You both have the right attitude. Learn the MB principles and apply them. As I said in a previous post, I believe you and your wife have an opportunity to build a great marriage.

AM

Mikey, here is the advice that Dr Harley gave to another couple in your position over on the MB seminar forum - they are separated due to the husband's angry outbursts:



here

The books he is referring to are here: Lovebusters

Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook

The workbook has lessons, worksheets and the undivided attention worksheets in it. The UA worksheet is the worksheet we use to schedule UA time. We sit down 1x a week and schedule it for the next week. This is really important to do, especially when you have busy lifestyles, because time that is scheduled is harder to put off. If you don't schedule it, you will find yourself putting it off.

Thanks for keeping the advice coming. I've ordered the workbook, and as stated Lovebusters will be coming in soon.

I've had the kids for a few days right now and things are going well. They're pretty understanding and haven't given me too much trouble. I even made it through church this morning with the help of some friends. Little D never was able to sit through the service very long, but I've been working on him, I think he'll at least be able to sit quietly soon. Glad I didn't have to miss the baptism of Pastor's brand new little girl!

I've been putting a lot of effort into this disaster of a house to try to restore it to "default condition" so she doesn't have to work super-hard just to heal the "domestic support" love buster damage she's done. I'm also getting a good feeling for what it's like to tame 3 energetic boys while trying to keep it up. I've made a lot of progress in organization, but it's a big house and I am VERY sore now *ouch*. I think I'm establishing that it's a difficult but not a herculean feat, and I'll remember these days for a long time before I dash off another disrespectful judgment on the condition of the house. I'm also learning the stuff I don't mind versus the stuff I absolutely hate, so we can work toward a better division of labor.

The boys and I have done two "family time" bible studies/caring for each other segments, and they were so receptive and astute for such young ones that I wanted to cry.

In my cleaning I DID come across one Harley book (finally), I Cherish You, which was a quick rundown of the 10 most common emotional needs distilled from His Needs, Her Needs. I read it through last night before bed. Plenty food for thought.

I have a few things to do, but I am thinking of offering to open up communication (text) tonight through Pastor. It's been over 48 hours now since I've felt angry, and 3 little boys are a GREAT testing field for relaxation exercises. If all goes well, I'm hoping for reconciliation/her coming home on Wednesday evening perhaps. I have Monday and Tuesday off to give her a lot of attention. I don't know if that's moving too quickly, but I think I can gauge a lot when we reopen communication with each other.

If she is struggling with keeping the house up, would it be possible to bring in a cleaning lady once a week? I remember feeling so overwhelmed by my TWO little boys that I was too exhausted to get on top of the housework.

It didn't bother my husband, but it sure bothered me because I am a neat freak. Boys are MESS machines! I found I could stay on top of everything if I had a lady come in 1x a week and do deep cleaning, organizing and laundry. That might not be a permanent solution, but it could be something to alleviate some pressure right now until you and your wife get your tempers under control and learn how to negotiate difficult things like housework.

Hello, everyone I'm pianomikey's wife. I don't have much to add, I just wanted to thank you all for the support you've been giving him. I love him with all my heart and respect him so much but I have been withdrawn,selfish ect.. and haven't shown those things. I'm working hard to get some counselling, I believe I'm ill and have problems I NEED to solve ASAP. This won't be an easy road but I don't ever plan on giving up on him and I have a plan and goals so that we never go back to such a dark place in our marriage again. Once again, thank you for helping my love through this hard time.

Welcome to MB mikesgirl83. Thats what we are here for .. I highly suggest you start a thread for yourself! We can also support you too and help you both get back on track.

Welcome Mikesgirl! We have very high hopes for your marriage and am so glad you are here. Welcome to Marriage Builders.

Thank you, I just posted a thread for myself