Don't have any really wise words for you. I know from which you speak.

All I can give you is my experience. I was not very good at not talking relationship stuff. Tried to always talk, paint a good picture, etc. etc.

Really all I did was keep her anger/depression/disgust/sadness about our past in the forefront, skewing her memories. Seemed natural to do at the time, but it at best didn't help and I think hurt.

I know it doesn't make it easy, and I doubt you will be able to pull it off completely, no one can in my experience. You are heartbroken, your life and vision of the future was destroyed and the one you love did it, and she cared and cares nothing for your feelings at present. I and everyone that has been or is in our shoes knows what you are saying.

But be sure of this, all she will see is your actions, at first because she thinks you are conning her about changing again, then in anger because you are changing, then hopefully in love because you have changed.

Words won't do it at all. A broken, nonfunctional man won't do it.

I truly loving and changed hero will.

Guess you're taking a dip on the roller coaster. Re: giving up control; PRAY. I know it's not easy. I had a majorly hard time doing that (praying), but truly it's the only thing that kept me out of the looney bin.

Honestly, if people are gonna keep recommending he buy his WW in withdrawal or current affair, that is planning on moving out, a present, make it a card or flowers.

Cheaper when she throws them in the trash.

haha.. very true, I'd have to agree with the common sense on that one.

Pain is real.
Go for a run.
Do something physical.
Call your pastor and schedule a meeting.

I'm so very sorry.

Like I said, they usually don't leave. But I would let her know that she will have to legally continue to help pay the bills. She can't just abandon them along with her children.

What are her plans for visitation with the kids? She doesn't think she is taking the kids, does she?

And I know you feel bad today, but you are closer today to reconciliation than you were last week. There are no guarantees but this is far from over.

Infidelity plays a role in child custody

If it is any comfort, when I was a WW I had a date when I was going to leave too. We had place to live, decided what to take with us and what we would do with our rings.

I didn't leave.

I have no contact with affair person.

And I'm glad.

You don't know how your story will end.....be strong MTW.

Sorry for your pain.

FF has a nice point there, MTW. I don't know her particular situation but logically your the better choice for your wife and in time she will see that. Follow through with your Plan A. Carrot and stick! You have history good and bad with your wife. Also, if I'm not mistaken you have children. May not look like it but has Dr. Harley has said many a time on the radio show you have the upper hand. I know it doesn't feel like it but you do.

Thanks again for all the good words and advice. Reminding me I had 5 days to work the heck out of the carrot motivated me to get moving again.

I think the pain comes from a sort of "pre-grief" --in trying to give up control (let go) I think you have to go through the grief of what has not yet happened in order to accept it may happen???

One of you mentioned becoming neutral on her leaving to "take the punishment out of it." I did that. Told her if she had to leave we'd handle it with respect and there was no need to sneak etc. I really think giving up control on the issue made a difference to her.

Can't do much Fri-Sat due to her schedule and my daughters 18th birthday, so I got the kids farmed out last night and set up a candle lit dinner at the house.

She started crying right when she came in and sat down--asking me "why the exposure?" again. Had a hard time eating because she wanted to talk a little and that leads to tears. She did tell me she was planning on leaving that night, but would wait.

She says she cannot go because the OM says I will go crazy and kill him if she moves out--not the ideal motivator, but I'll take anything I can get. I refuse to calm any of their fears, but do not say anything to add to them. If she does move out I fear OM will advise her to get an Order of Protection and that will really screw up my job hunt.

I gently introduced the topic of finance and possessions in the event of her leaving. She seemed a little surprised at how little I would allow her to take but did not get mad--it made her really think, I think. She mentions the kids as well--but there will only be one Sr. at home next year so I think it is easy for her to minimize the devastation it will cause them in her mind.

So...when she came down this am to get ready for work she initiated a hug. I walk her to the car each am, look her in the eye, and speak the best edifying words I can come up with the night before as sincerely as possible--today she teared up and said "I'm not going anywhere today, so try to have a good day and don't worry about it."

Daughters 18th b-day is tonight. She works Sat am, I have to work Sun am. Any fresh ideas on what to do next are appreciated.

Is she still in contact with the OM?

I will say this, I wish I had been able to do 1/10 as well as you are.

Don't prove me wrong, but I honestly think you get it as well, no, far better than any I have talked to on here. Not as many as some have, but enough to know that you are a rare exception.

Don't minimize your feelings. You are already grieving, The grief I felt was orders of magnitude greater than anything I have ever felt before. I can't imagine anything except maybe the loss of on of my children or grandchild could compare, thankfully I don't know that.

It appears that you are making an impression. Remember, that is the goal.

Also, remember that if she sees anything, real or blown out of proportion, that she can construe into thinking it is an act, she may do it. So, stay strong. If I can tell anything over the googleweb, I know you have really taken this and used it to address things in you. She will see that too, already does.

A firm, steady force will move things farther than short bursts followed by nothing. Keep your shoulder to wheel. You have a purpose.

Awesome post, Herb...

i just caught a bit of this, but on yesterday's radio show, Dr Harley was discussing how a BS may have a grounds for a lawsuit if his spouse has a workplace affair with her boss and it leads to divorce. Wasn't the OM her boss or something?

I see no signs of contact with the OM since the exposure in the workplace on 04/09. But I cannot check emails at her work computer and she uses her friends phone at work too--the other cheater.

I told the other cheater's husband, so now she is coaching my wife on how to better cover her tracks.

The OM was the general manager of the business--not a direct supervisor, but in management.

Thanks for the good words Herb.

I know my actions are working on her. The exposure was a huge set back in that department, but a huge gain in killing the fun and fantasy of the ongoing affair. Prior to the exposure, the ongoing comms and 'love' with the OM were working better/stronger. I am hoping now that the exposure has sucker punched the affair somewhat, my actions can work and effect things much better.

I will tell you this: I second guess the exposure twice a day--it is a battle between wisdom and emotion--really have to focus on the facts to see it's value. 2 people that have been through affairs contacted me immediately and said they totally knew why I was doing it and that an urgent sense of 'drasticness' was 100% warranted.

It is easy to second guess when you have to see and hear the explosion up close and I understand completely. We are not concerned because we have seen this play out for years. It is very much like the bartender cutting off the alcoholic at the bar. The alcoholic is FURIOUS and his rage is very scary, but as he sobers up you can see how it was necessary. And so does the alcoholic eventually. A recovered wayward wife will not be angry about exposure. Rather she will THANK YOU for it. Her anger is due to the fog, so don't let it bother you.

Your marriage can survive her temporary anger over exposure but it can't survive an affair, so just keep that in mind when you face her anger. That anger is a good thing right now, because it means you have inflicted a major blow to the affair. The goal was to save your marriage, not to avoid her anger.

You have to remember this. While there was (or is) contact, your marriage is doomed. Not as good as dead, but dead.

Don't forget this. You have to look at it this way, because it is true. The marriage you had, the one that you want to think you had, is dead, gone, never to be again.

But this is good, because look where it led you.

If you get the chance to remain married, you have two choices. Start from scratch and do it correctly, or go back to something like before.

This wondering about what you did is off based.

Your mistake was not in exposing and dropping a bomb on her secret world. Your mistake was all the years leading up to it.

Believe me, I know about the kinds of thoughts you are having. I identify with you, you are much like me. A good man before, one that didn't do a good job with meeting his wife's EN's, but more out of ignorance. Never "mistreated" her, just the opposite. But the things that to you seemed like should be appreciated just bounced off.

You will grieve the past and loss of the future. But don't romanticize either. The past got you here, and if the future was to be just an extension of that, then good riddance, right.

You have done and are doing the right things. Time to blow up that mess and rebuild.

WW used to say I was "distracted" an awful lot. I basically neglected to treat her like the treasure she is. So that was the most common thing I heard prior to the A.

But now, the single biggest block to her (LB really) seems to be disrespectful judgments aka control to her. She talks about being under my thumb. Always being passively coerced into doing things my way. Never being loved and celebrated for who she really is. "I can convince anybody of anything."

I was able to ease into a discussion about the POJA and how if I had a 2nd chance to meet her needs that would really help keep me from being so controlling (disrespect judgements and independent behavior LBs). I think it made her think.

Anyway, is there such a thing as EPs for the BH? A sort of "things the BH promises to address concerning the WW issues?"

The short answer is "Yes"

It is called Marriage Builders

Although now it may seem like everything on MB is about the Surviving An Affair part, the meat of it is:

His Needs, Her Needs
Lovebusters
Fall in Love, Stay in Love

You already mentioned POJA, that is just on of the tools

Oh, and thanks for the exposure reminders--I do go back over the clear facts and sound reasons when my emotions start to carry me off.

Ongoing contact with the OM is my biggest concern right now. I am checking texts, emails, debit purchases, VAR under the seat, and a logger is on the way--but again, 90% of contact has been at work computer--I just catch that it has happened in the texts between WW and WW friend.

I searched the car and purse for second phone, as well as purchase records...and new charging cords, but found nothing.

I did procure protocols for the work email, but it is all on a local exchange sever so it is a no go for now.