Oh I suppose I can mention the things that I have done in the past few days. I delivered some bedroom furniture to her that matches part of set we owned. She was happy about that. I also took our deep freezer to her place and cleaned her garage to place it nicely. She liked that as well. I ordered one of our favorite movies on DVD from Amazon and she was happy when she got it. She was anxious to watch it but did not have a functional DVD player. I gave her one of the extra Blu-ray players that was moved from our house. she was happy about that because it also allowed her to exercise on Saturday morning. I could tell her countenance was different having exercised. She was more lively and very cordial and open toward me. She even put her fingers in my hair to see if I had a couple of gray hairs. That made my month!!! The DVD business was Fri and Sat. The furniture stuff happened on Sunday. Then Monday happened!

Well now Tuesday happened. My wife and I and actually got into a "debate" about my beleiving in reconciliation for us. At the end of our 10 minute sharing exercise which I felt was pretty good...she continued to talk as I was trying to end the conversation...as I knew the more we talk the higher likely the conversation would go south...and boy did it! Near what I thought was the end of our phone call my says "Can I ask a favor?" I hesitated for a while and replied with a reluctant "Okaay". I knew where this was going. She starts by saying it bothers me when I hear you mention something that insuates that we will reconcile and I would like for you....

I cut her off (baaad! I know... still a habit that must be broken) I gone on to say for the next 15-20 minutes how I beleive what I beleive and nothing is going to change that. I then pull out my gamet of scripture by memory that supports any and everything I beleive and how I can not NOT do what I know God is calling me to do. I know... bad idea all around. I realized it after the fact that I was not listening and trying to force my beleifs on her. It didn't end well. She reminded me of all the wrong I done a couple of times when I attempted to talk about reestablishing the sanctity of our marriage. She finally said ouy days are numbered and that she just doesn't want to be with me. Hurt like hell I tell ya. I immediatly called a good friend of mine fr encoragement, but he confirmed what I knew happened and that was take a few steps backward. I even mentioned to her that perhaps someone or something else has her attention. She didn't confirm either was other than saying "I wish, perhaps someone decent would come along, but I have too much baggage". Ouuuch. Heeelp. SOS... What happened here?!

Anyone... I am thinking of sending this email after last night's ordeal:

Thanks again for being a container for me, I will continue to be there for you. Yes� I will discontinue expressions of what I believe if it bothers you and drives you further away. I do not want to do that.

Talk to you later

Ok? Need rewording? Not said at all?

WOw, DNT, you are really stepping in it here!! You are so focused on what you want that you are driving right over her and making huge lovebusters. She has a right to her feelings about reconciliation and she has a right to be respected whether you agree or not.

A big part of her fear, no doubt, is that you don't respect her feelings. You cheated on her and you have the nerve to lecture her and quote scripture?? Are you kidding me, dude?? You weren't flinging around scripture when you were having affairs. That is exactly how I would feel if you told me what you said to her.

Your marriage cannot afford such lovebusters at this time. You are on life support.

When she asks you to stop talking about reconciliation what would be so hard about saying "ok, I will stop that." Would that be so hard? Showing respect for her feelings is of utmost importance right now.

The time to play the scripture card was when you were committing adultery. Somehow I doubt you were quoting scripture when you were taking your pants off with hoes. So your use of it now is very hypocritical.

If you believe in reconciliation, you should stop taking such anti-reconciliation steps like having these kinds of discussions. They are MAJOR love bank withdrawals.

By the way, my parents used to lecture us about what they believed God wanted them to do. By that, they meant that God wanted them to spew their disrespect to us (under the guise of "warning" and "helping" us), and we were apparently obligated to listen. This kind of religion (that creates an obligation in someone else) is NASTY DISRESPECTFUL, and frankly, I'd say when you start throwing your faith around like this, you are applying God's name in vain.

Jesus the Son of God gave betrayed spouses the right NOT to reconcile. God would not give you a conflicting message that takes away the rights His Son expressed for your wife. So please don't lie about what God says and does. Talk about major pain for your wife!

I knew I blew it. I won't go down that road again. As for me quoting scripture 10 years ago "while taking off my pants", I didn't want to have anything to do with scripture during that period of my life. But.. point taken. Still hypocritical.

Do I still relay this message or not? "I will discontinue expressions of what I believe if it bothers you and drives you further away. I do not want to do that." Adding - You have a right to feel the way you do. I have to do a better job of respecting your feelings and I am sorry for not doing so last night.

No, just drop it entirely. It will make love bank withdrawals to remind her of the unpleasant experience.

Have you read Dr. Harley's article about the friends and enemies of good conversation? This is what you need to focus on.

Thanks Markos. I read it some time ago. Pulling it up again right now.

Family dinner two nights in a row. No LB's. When I call her she answers the phone with exuberance! She has been freely sharing pics and info related to our children. My oldest graduates from HS today (Saturday). We have lots of family in town so it's a little odd not being in our home and some learning that we have separate residences. But with the peaceful interactions that have occurred the last couple of days I'm not worried about what extended family thinks. Hope this positive momentum can be sustained.

With all that said... I have suspicion that someone else has her attention. She never denied it when I brought it up during my recent rant. She has been very secretive about her whereabouts since separating. She keeps a very tight lock on her phone when I am around and I always notice her vigorously texting when I walk away and then she slips the phone back into her "secure" place quickly. Before I exited FB I noticed her liking posts that eluded to "guarding your heart", "single moms introducing new relationships to children", and the like. Oh, and she changed her FB password shortly after seperation... What gives?

She probably is having an affair.
It's very possible.
All you can do is Plan A; if you become aware of an affair expos� it but otherwise you need to focus on plan A

Can you afford a PI to find out if she's seeing someone?

Do you have access to check her phone records?

DNT,

I have got a lot to say to you. So much I don't even know where to begin. I will start by saying I know EXACTLY where you are right now. For a long time I did the same thing you are doing. I also understand why you are doing it.

You know in your heart that you have changed are continuing to change and know how to be the husband you should have been years ago in your marriage. You are trying to force this feeling on your wife.

The thing is, that even though you know you have changed, she is not convinced (and possibly never will be). You however are so sure of everything now that you are trying to force this onto your wife. I did the same exact thing with my H. I however would cry and beg and throw a bit of temper tantrum to try to get him to understand that I was a changed person.

The problem with this is that we can control our actions but we can't control the actions of our spouses. Especially since our original actions, broke them. It took me a long time to figure this out.

I wanted my H home so bad that i begged him to come home and he reluctantly did. From February to May of last year he was at home but he had already checked out. I was so happy that he was here that I ignored that he was dying inside and still had his wall up so high.

It was mothers day last year when he was finally honest with me and told me he was miserable that he had not forgiven me and did not think that we were going to workout. Again, I cried I asked him if he did not see a change in me. He said he did but was convinced it was only a matter of time before I hurt him again.

Something clicked in me that day. I can't even explain it but it was almost like I had clarity on the situation. That it was no longer in my hands and that it might be best if I let my H go rather than to force him to be miserable with me.

This again was in May. I told him if he wanted to go he could and I understood. He however stayed the entire summer and seemed to get better. He actually started reading on MB (never posted) we talked ALOT about people on here, situations, POJO (kind-of a running inside joke between us).

In September however he once again said he was dying inside and everything was a trigger to him. This time I was ready mentally to officially let him go. Because I had figured out back in May that it was not my decision it was his. That forcing him to stay for me or the kids was not fair and it was what I wanted. If he did not want to stay and could not live with my actions then he should leave.

I told him this in almost the same manner that I am telling you now. We both cried, it was so hard (one of the hardest things I did in my life) but it was the right thing to do.

He left....and an hour later he came back and was ready to tear down the wall and rebuild our life together. It has been different ever since.

Now I know that every story is different and I do hope yours has a happy ending. The point of my story is not the ending but my realization as to what was best for my H rather than what I really wanted. Again, I know it is frustrating because you are finally working on yourself and MB is the best way to do that. You have had your moment of clarity but you have to allow your wife to find hers...and she might never get there...you have to accept that.


Now as far as the other situation goes...the possible affair. This also took place with my H. In his mind it was justified because we were separated (although we were not when he started the affair). I did start snooping and looked at his phone records. This is how I figured it out. I could not get access to his text but the phone numbers, minutes he talked to people, etc...were all there for me to see.

When I had enough evidence, I called him out on it. He told me that he never even would have considered having an affair if I did not have one first. He also justified it by saying that we were done, he moved out and he was doing nothing wrong. My defense was that if he was doing nothing wrong then why was he keeping it a secret?

I exposed it to everyone that did not already know (his parents and brothers knew and a couple of close friends). I also told him that we were still married whether he moved out or not. That if he wanted to be with someone else that was fine but not until the divorce papers were filled.

BTW, just to give you a timeline and show you that if your wife is having an affair then she will not want to get back with you.

November 18 2011 - My affair is exposed. H kicks me out for two weeks but ask me to come home the beginning of December.

December - H wants to work on marriage. Sign up with marriage counselor. Buy SSA. He reads it first then I read it.

December 12 - H goes out to bar with buddy, meets OW. Gives her is card (sold insurance at the time). Trying to sell her insurance only. She calls him on Monday...the affair has begun!!

The rest of December - H is distant but I am so blinded by the fact that we are "working things out" that I don't really notice. We go on a family trip the day after Christmas (I ride down with my sister). H insists on coming down the next day because of work. I am a little concerned but excited because he is being extremely affectionate (little did I know that he was plotting to stay the evening with her...bleahh)


January 1, 2012 - The night we get back home, H sits me down and tells me we are done, that he is leaving and he was just pretending to be happy for the kids for Christmas. He leaves the next day, I am devastated, broken hearted, ashamed, angry, etc... but not suspicious of an affair. I did ask him point blank about someone else and he did the same thing your wife did. He did not tell me directly that there was no one else but he did say that he was talking to someone and nothing had happened (lie).

January 8th - I find MB (miracle) and post my story hoping for sympathy. Instead i got "attacked" or at least that his how I felt at the time. I now know that it was the greatest attack of my life!!!

January 10th (H's Birthday and the day I decided to give him my letter of EP's) Something is off. He leaves our daughters 5th grade concert to "go out to dinner" with his dad and brother. This is very out of character for him. The next day I listen to his voicemail on his phone and find out he went to a concert (still did not know it was with OW).

January 14th - My 15 year old son suspects something is not right. Talks to me about my H guarding his phone, turning it off at night and yelling at him when he tried to look something up on it. He encourages me to check the phone records. This is when I found out he was talking ALOT to another women (called her number(s) and figured it out).


What goes around comes around, came around and smacked me right in the face. And even though I had already had two affairs of my own, being smacked with my own reality really hurt!!!

We really don't bring it up anymore but H did want to blame his A solely on me at the time. He has since changed his tune. DNT, we might have not survived this if I had not found MB. I really hope your wife is NOT having an affair but I would not be surprised if she was. Either way, you will survive this. And even if you are the reason she turned to someone else, you can't be used as an excuse and justification for her choice and behavior.

Keep your eyes open, keep posting on here for advice no matter which direction life takes you. That is what we are here for.

sorry I wrote you a book.

fifteen (almost sixteen)

Nice post fifteenyears.

I may be in a position to hire a PI once our house is sold. I received a cash offer and should have a contract in place soon. I don�t have access to her records. She switched to a different carrier. But� Dang it! Dang it! Kicking myself at the moment... We had my son's graduation dinner today at our church family center. I sat next to my wife and she left the table to mingle and talk to others throughout the room for while...she left her cell phone right there on the table and I just kept glancing at it, but never bothered to pick it up and examine. Perhaps I may get another opportunity later, but not like today's.

Wow fifteenyears... just wow. I am hoping my story takes a similar track as yours. I think I am reaching my "letting go" point. I appreciate you taking the time to share and I find our situations have many parallels. You are right, I see the light and many errors in my ways and have figured out how to begin to be a MUCH better husband, father, and most importantly...a friend to her. But, you are right. I am trying to force the issue and MAKE her see the light. Another thing I don't think I've mentioned is that for the first time I have taken a serious stand to address my bouts with viewing pornography. It has been a battle for me since I was 12 years old. I have discovered this to be a primary issue of marital issues over the years - particularly a trigger for my infidelity. The control, guilt, shame, and the like were all byproducts of my never being able (or willing) to be free from my addiction. I finally defeated that demon in November of last year. I now have several accountability (my wife gets an internet report), prayer partners, internet filters, and a real desire to never want play in that fire again. It used to be my "safe place", but no longer.

I will definitely keep an eye out. I think many of the signs of an EA have been there since before she left. On of our very close friends has said she "doubts very seriously that she is even thinking of someone else, being in so much pain". I know better having listened to Dr. Harley state she is fertile for an affair. I know MB will be the best place I garner advice and wisdom to see me through all of this. But I understand that I must allow my BW to make that decision on her own. But I believe prayer works and I plan to war like nobody's business in my prayer time. There many others in our circle who are praying the same thing.

I do wish you the best no matter what path your marriage goes in. I can tell you when you do truly "let go" you do feel better and feel a sense of relief almost. Hard to describe but I know that in September if Mr. 15 would have left, I would have been able to deal with it. I would have known and felt that I did all I could do rather than feeling defeated.

Good job with the porn. I know that that is a hard demon to conquer. My father was and still is addicted to porn. He thinks no one knows but my entire family has been affected by it one way or another. My mom has always taken a blind eye to it and unfortunately my sister was accidentally exposed to it at a very young age.

After no communication on Sunday. �The W and kiddos spent most of Memorial day at my place. I BBQ'd and the W and I spent about 30/45 minutes talking over dinner. Mostly about family, church, friends, etc. Things went pretty will for the most part. We laughed and shared opinions without any LB's or enemies of good conversation. Then she brought up my dad and how he "seemed ok". This has been a contentious topic because my W has wanted me and/or my mother to inform him about our separation. My W took it upon herself to inform my mother...she and particularly my dad have not been in the best health condition. My mother was a bit rattled when she learned what happened and her immediate response was "they is no way I am going to tell your dad". I simply said that I know she wouldn't. I communicated this to my W a while back in a conversation about family boundaries. Well this weekend it became apparent to him what the situation is. But, THAT's the way it should be as it relates to him. He needs to SEE that everything is ok with me, because he knows that if I am ok then everything else will be ok. Despite my shortcomings as a husband, my dad knows that I have always taken care of things with him and the family.

This is what I attempted to communicate to my W, but she didn't receive my message as intended. I simply stated that every relationship is different and my dad and I need not talk about our marital relationship. At the end of the day, he just wants to know that we are "ok". She continued to pound me into being someone who doesn't communicate and I should not do that with my DS (her SS)...if he wants to talk, then we should talk...and on and on. It became a confusing back and forth about whose point was what...and who brought up my son...and yada yada. She accused me (the logical one) of "being all over the place" and we both agreed that we should stop talking. I ended it by restating that believe my dad was ok because he SAW that I was ok.

I HATE that our conversations take these turns. I knew at some point she would bring up my dad and I knew where it would go. We were able to change the subject a bit but I could tell she was a little �spent� after that part of our discussion and she began to hint to the kiddos that it was time to go. I fixed her a to-go plate. She was happy about the food and thanked me for making dinner. She is extremely intelligent and the sweetest person in the world� I know and everyone else knows it. But, I can tell when she is calculatingly cold! I can hear it in her �thank you�s��I heard it today.

She called me a few moments ago to remind me of a conversation she had with a mother one of my son�s friends at the graduation dinner regarding college vs. Air Force. It was pleasant, but more matter-of-fact than anything else. I suppose the fact we more freely interacting is progress, but there always seems to be a hiccup somehow. How do I escape the continuous topics and discussions? Is this just part of the process?

And now another intense conversation has now ensued. My W sends me a text asking if she could talk and I just listen only. I responded yes. I knew this wouldn't be good. As she calls she begins to mention the conversation we had earlier about my dad. Somehow she ties that conversation and a conversation I had with her mother together. A few weeks ago I disclosed to her mom (and have intentions to do the same with her dad) about my indiscretions. I also told my MIL about some of my own personal struggles that I have resolved... particularly anger/addictions. Well my wife did not appreciate any of that. Was I wrong? She says that her mom didn't want or needed to know anything about why we were separated. My intent was to be honest and apologize for letting my in-laws down. But tonight my W goes on a long rant about how crazy I am and begins to chastise me about a number of other things. I sat idle and took it. She then asked me if I really thought I was "right" in talking with her mother. I told her I was confessing my sins in hope of forgiveness and letting them know I intended to be a better father and husband to their daughter if given the chance. I apologized to my W for the hurt I caused both her and her mom. I then addressed her repeatedly calling me crazy. I wasn't disrespectful, but I did ask some probing questions that she could not answer. I ended the conversation by stating that I didn't believe she meant to condemn me but I understand that she is hurting and that I also believe there is a spiritual element to our butting heads. She was very silent during most of what I had to say...and our good night was actually pleasant. I feel as thought I am dodging fiery darts from her. That was rough!

DNT,

From my own personal experience there is a very fine line when involving in-laws in your marriage. Yes, I know that the affair should be exposed to them but that is where it should end. While they should know what is going on, getting them too involved in you and your wife's business can be dangerous and hurtful to your marriage (no matter what state it is in). Both my H and I know this from pulling our own parents into our struggle and it backfired on both sides.

Make sure again your intentions are going? Were you really telling you MIL to confess your sins? Or were you hoping for an ally in talking your wife back into your arms? I am not saying it was one over the other (maybe even a little of both).

Just make sure your actions are not just reactions to your current situation (a lot easier said than done...believe me I know).

It is good that you listened intently to your what your wife had to say. I know it is hard (it especially was for me because I am usually the talker) but try to do it and make it a habit.

XVY