We are in recovery for almost 16 months. Things have been going very well, especially when we are able to maintain our 15 - 20 hours of time together each week.

One of the issues we have had for a long time was financial accountability. Through some pretty bad spending habits, we ended up very deep in debt. The bad habits were on both sides.

We were able to get out from under it this year, and have tightened up our belt, where no spending is done without consent from each other.

This has helped in a major way.

My problem now is that we don't sit down and go through any kind of budgeting plan. We no longer use credit cards which is good, however, I regularly get this feeling of being out of control financially because we have no plan.

We have tried purchasing budgeting software, spreadsheets, and just working on it by hand... but it seems so overwhelming I don't know where to start.

This is just the tip of the iceberg really.

My father-in-law holds the mortgage on our house. Actually, we owe him quite a bit still on the houses we lived in before, too. He has always offered to help with the houses because he is in that business, and we gratefully took it.

What I have found in recovery is that living like this is more of an issue than I thought it would be.

When I look down to find my footing - I can't see the floor. The floor is hidden away, and the payment system is very "cloudy" at best.

My wife is very comfortable - because it's her parents, and I can understand that.

I just don't feel like we are living "independently" from them, and never really have been as there is such a huge level of dependance with them.

My wife has confronted her parents about the financial details of our "arrangement" a month or two ago because I respectfully said it was becoming a big source of withdrawals in our relationship. I get insecure, and when I do it feels like the floodgates of the past open up which make me feel horrible now. I struggle with that often, and it hurts. I am out of the fog and have been for a long time. I don't want to go back into it.


Just for thought: We are not in danger of loosing the house we are living in now. He has not asked for us to pay more, and even mentioned that if we have any financial issues we don't have to pay him if we can't.

On one hand, I feel pretty ungrateful even mentioning it, but on the other it's making major withdrawals in my love bank.

I try to push the feelings down, but they surge back up.


Any Advice?


Thank You....

What happens when you try to POJA this?

We have made huge strides in our POJA's, and in fact this one we have agreed to sit down and go over our budget.. well, actually to create a budget we both agree on.

In our conversations, we always agree to agree a plan, it is just getting to that next step and actually finding the time to work on it.

We have put a "budget date" in our calendar for next Monday night for 2 hours!! :-) Will see how that goes.

One of my issues is that I feel overwhelmed because I think we are living a little beyond our means... and we should probably move.

That means a lot of changes. Moving farther away from her parents ( which in the past has been a show stopper ), school changes for the kids ( they are still in HS ), and a whole host of other things.

This doesn't bother me at all, but to her change is not a welcome thought.

Her parents ( IMHO ) do not make it easy for her at all.

We have asked on many occasions for the financial details on the mortgage, but it just never comes together.

I know there is nothing I can do or say to control her parents. I don't want to, its out of my control totally.

What we do have control over is our actions, and what we do for what's right for us.

anyways - there is so much to this drama ( isn't there always ? ) that it's hard to put into one response.

Yesterday, when the feelings felt overwhelming, issues and things from my past EA/PA haunt me.

I took a deep breath, acknowledged the feelings, and worked them through. In the other life ( the fog ), I would have begged to have these problems. These are fixable, monetary things, and a possible change of address.... not the loss of my family. Or myself.

Looking at it like that helps keep things in perspective.

I am not the best financial person, and neither is my wife - together though we should be able to piece together a spreadsheet of what we spend and come up with a monthly / annual budget.

How hard could it be??

Have you seen this worksheet? Financial Wants and Needs

Can you and your wife get into the habit of saving all your receipts?

If you use mostly debit card or checks, then you use an online financial program like Mint to track your spending. The online programs can't track your cash expenditures, of course, so you would need to get into the habit of saving receipts and recording those transactions.

I'm a bookkeeper and use a popular bookkeeping program for all my clients as well as for our personal accounting. It really is incredibly helpful to know how much money is being spent. It's very hard to create a plan if you don't know where the starting point is.

It will take creating a new habit of frequent recording of expenditures. It will pay off in the ability to create and stick to a financial plan.

Thank You!

We very much in the habit of recording things now.

Everything (almost 99.X%) is done on the debit / amex for tracking purposes. The program we have iBank. Kinda cool. It downloads all our activity to the mac, and then we can sync the Mac to our iPads for easier viewing.

So, we have the data, now it's building a framework around it where both of us ( POJA ) are comfortable.

Your point about finding a starting point is right on. I believe if we had a starting point we could move forward together. It gets overwhelming at times, because we are both passionate about things.


I have no problems spending $$$$ taking the family snowboarding 30 times a winter, but then I look funny when we discuss how much the kids cell phones cost.

And the time. It takes time, and maybe we have been setting ourselves up for failure because we plan a midweek night for 2 hours to catchup on it. We are both tired from the day, and end up not spending the focused time necessary on it.

thanks for the suggestions.


This is the first step in financial freedom, something we need no matter what we end up doing. Staying in the house we are at now, or moving.

Here are some good clips on finances.

Radio Clip on Finances
Radio Clip
Radio Clip on Financial Disagreements
Segment #2

Tell us what you think.

Thank You, I will go through them all.

Looking back, it's kind of funny. ;-)

My wife and I setup a joint account when we were dating in college!

Our issue ( I believe ) is just setting up a system where we can

be accountable for all expenditures.

Even the small ones.

We have have made mistakes financially in the past, spending

money in ways that was not so interdependent.

That was then, and this is now.

Now, it's just cleaning up the mess we have created and trying

to find the bottom and starting fresh - together. No matter

where it is, as long as we are together.

The answer to all those, friend, is POJA. That's the beauty of this.

Thank You.

We had an appointment last night to discuss ( set it up in the calendar and everything a week ago ).

Last night came and went - no talks.

I know we are both busy, she has definitely been working hard at

many many things. I will try to bring it up later, maybe set

another meeting up.

I can really feel the withdrawls. It stinks. I have a very

high emotional demand for financial security.


:-(

Interesting to read "demand" in place of "need".
What do you think this means?

Pepperband,

Very good point.

I am still overwhelmed by what I perceive as her dependance on my in-laws.

I want to completely separate financially from them, as I believe it has influenced our decisions over the years.

What I would like is to be completely separated from my in-laws, and start acting as a whole unit together, dependent only on each other for our happiness, financial security, and general fulfillment in life.

Right now I feel that our life is dependent on someone else, and it is keeping us from truly depending on each other for support.

Demands are not the way to go for sure.

Thank you for pointing it out.

It just seems bleak at best sometimes - very foggy.

We did get a chance to talk for 2 hours alone last night, and work through what each other were feeling.

From the talk we came up with a start of a plan, I guess we will see how it works out.

POJA - How well do you understand the concept?

PS:
The link in my sig line Buyers/Renters/Freeloaders includes a brief description/explanation of POJA - as described by Dr Harley.

This is your goal.
You can POJA ways to achieve this.

A little more on the talk.

I think it is fair to mention that the conversation was very much POJA. I "tried" to explain how I felt, not what I wanted. Although in my earlier email I did mention "emotional demand" instead of emotional need!!

Our talk went through "our" spending habits, what we needed, what we didn't, etc. We are definitely living beyond what we should.

We agreed to cut back and act "as-if" we were in a spend only what we need to spend budget.

So - no out to eat nights, movies, take out, etc.

It might be nice to start eating as a family again.

I have been struggling with bits of emotional Yo-Yo'ing.

The Yo-Yo is not so bad if it is a short string - but recently the string has gotten longer and longer, and I feel like it gets harder and harder to spin back up to the top.

I absolutely recognize that I only get like this when I turn inward toward myself and don't share my feelings and thoughts with my wife.

Last night I believe we were able to start the first "real" conversation moving us forward together.

there was a point that she felt guilty and protective about the past and she said that she felt like she had part to do with pushing me away... i.e. making it easier for the affair.

I would not be truthful if I said loosing all of this financial mess wasn't attractive, but I am reminded no matter how bad it seems that divorce / separation would be 10 times worse.

Coming to my senses again, thankfully.

will keep posting as it feels good to let this out.

I can see how crazy I really am.